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Does a man/woman have a 'right' to die?

No
Yes

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Offline muman613

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Do we have a right to die?
« on: March 02, 2009, 04:03:08 PM »
I just read on the Rag San Francisco Chronicle {gay liberal newspaper} an article on a group called "Final Exit" which actively sends people to assist in terminating their lives. I have always found this 'assisted suicide' thing to be morally repulsive. I am extremely against this practicle but apparently the gay liberal drones who read SF Chronicle are fully supportive of assisted suicide. I would write there but because the gays complained so much about my posts I am no longer able to post replies to SF Chronicle.

Jewish law is very clear that nobody should commit suicide. Those who engage in this activity should be tried for murder.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Do we have a right to die?
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2009, 04:14:57 PM »
I am shocked that two people support a person in suicide. That is very odd. It has to do with the value of life which is more precious than anything. Even when in much pain life is preferable to non-life because only Hashem is in control of who lives and dies. Commiting suicide is against the will of G-d. Just as killing an unborn baby is murder, so is taking your own life.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Nadav

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Re: Do we have a right to die?
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2009, 04:20:41 PM »
I am completely against it as Judaism is very clear on this. Remember every dog has his day, doctors like Jack Kevorkian and other murderers will have to answer to the King of the Universe.

To the people who voted yes. Where do you draw the line? Should we just start handing out cyanide pills? This suicide on the demand ideology that many people seem to have adopted is outright evil.

Offline zachor_ve_kavod

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Re: Do we have a right to die?
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2009, 04:49:24 PM »
Do people have a right to terminate their life prematurely?  In a world without G-d, they do.  This is because there is nothing sacred in a secular world, including life.  I think your answer really relies upon your belief in G-d.  If you believe in G-d, then logically you have to believe that G-d gave you the gift of your life.  If you believe that G-d gave you your life than you would have to understand that ending your life is throwing away G-d's gift to you. 

On the other hand, if you believe that everything (and I mean everything) is an accident, that there is no
G-d, only cosmic coincidences, then everything is meaningless including your life.  If there is no meaning to life (which there can't be without G-d) then why not throw your life away?

I happen to believe that all meaning comes from G-d.  G-d gave me a gift and I would never throw it away.

Offline Daleksfearme

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Re: Do we have a right to die?
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2009, 07:01:08 PM »
Although I do not as a rule support suicide, I do feel that people should have the right to refuse or stop treatment protocols that are painful and will only increase life by a short time.

If the outcome of a persons illness is not in question in a medical sense, to spend your last days in pain might be more torture than anything else.

That being said, I do allow for miracles and the importance of life and thus would not hasten death by artificial means, by increasing a morphine drip to the point where someone is allowed to slip away etc.  There does come a point though, where another round of Chemo etc may not really be the way to go.
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Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Do we have a right to die?
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2009, 08:29:19 PM »
This is a tough subject for me. I am not in favor of suicide but at the same time, I don't think the state can stop people from doing what they wish to their bodies.*




*I most certainly do not count unborn humans within this definition.

Offline Zionist Revolutionary

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Re: Do we have a right to die?
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2009, 08:48:13 PM »
G-d gave you life. You have no right to take the life that G-d gave you away.

Offline nessuno

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Re: Do we have a right to die?
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2009, 09:00:09 PM »
I voted yes.  People do have the right to die.  They absolutely do.  God forgive us when we force treatment, sometimes amounting to torture, on them.  When the result is only more quantity and no quality.  That happens every day.  That is 'evil', in my eyes. 
 
I have no opinion on assisted suicide.  I will not judge people who feel so desperate, that they seek help to die.  I pray never to be faced with that dilemma.
So Muman, you can count me among the morally repulsive.  I know that I have a good relationship with God.  That is all that matters.
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Offline Americanhero1

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Re: Do we have a right to die?
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2009, 09:38:43 PM »
I have the right to dye
Tie Dye that is

Offline DownwithIslam

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Re: Do we have a right to die?
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2009, 09:41:06 PM »
Muman, I believe jews have different laws when it comes to this. Obviously a jew cannot end his life for any reason. I voted no.
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Offline Americanhero1

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Re: Do we have a right to die?
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2009, 09:42:31 PM »
Muman, I believe jews have different laws when it comes to this. Obviously a jew cannot end his life for any reason. I voted no.


A Jew cannot give up his life to protect his family?

Offline muman613

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Re: Do we have a right to die?
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2009, 09:43:53 PM »
Muman, I believe jews have different laws when it comes to this. Obviously a jew cannot end his life for any reason. I voted no.


A Jew cannot give up his life to protect his family?

He cannot kill himself to save anyone else... He can protect his family from people trying to kill him and his family {he must do this}. But the original question was concerning assisted suicide...


You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline MasterWolf1

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Re: Do we have a right to die?
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2009, 09:55:08 PM »
This is a morbid thread but to answer this..

If God forbid I was in a serious accident and nothing can save me. And I am on a breathing machine for the rest of my life ad that is what is keeping me alive, and my brains are in mush then pull the plug.  That to me is not living that is suffering more
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Offline muman613

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Re: Do we have a right to die?
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2009, 11:24:25 PM »
This is a morbid thread but to answer this..

If G-d forbid I was in a serious accident and nothing can save me. And I am on a breathing machine for the rest of my life ad that is what is keeping me alive, and my brains are in mush then pull the plug.  That to me is not living that is suffering more

There is a difference from this to assisted suicide. Assisted suicide means doing something to hasten the death. The other important point is that assume the day after they pull the plug on you and you are dead, then they find a cure for your sickness. I know people in a lot of pain and I would never suggest that they should just give up on life..
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Re: Do we have a right to die?
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2009, 11:29:45 PM »
This is a morbid thread but to answer this..

If G-d forbid I was in a serious accident and nothing can save me. And I am on a breathing machine for the rest of my life ad that is what is keeping me alive, and my brains are in mush then pull the plug.  That to me is not living that is suffering more

Please watch this movie... This incredible man who was striken with Lou Gerigs disease, was given only 3-5 years to live, and yet 14 years later has written nine books {six by only moving his eyes}.

This man gives me strength...

http://www.aish.com/movies/blinkofeye.asp

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline ✡ Hindu Zionist ॐ

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Re: Do we have a right to die?
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2009, 11:36:36 PM »
I have voted Yes, cause as a Hindu i support Mahasamadhi. Yogis who are very advanced in spiritual techniques can leave their bodies at their will. And i support this will by them in their effort to reach higher domains of Cosmic bliss.

For those who may not be knowing of this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sam%C4%81dhi

"Samadhi as leaving the body

Advanced yogis have been said to intentionally leave their bodies as a final attainment or soul-liberation. It is at this time that the soul knows a complete and unbroken union with the Heavenly Godhead, and, being free from the limitations of the body, merges effortlessly into the transcendent amrita of Divine Bliss. It is said that sometimes the yogi leaves the body and returns.

Mahasamadhi (literally great samadhi) is a term often used for this intentional departure from the physical body at death. Every infinitesimal piece of attachment or karma is completely surrendered unto God and dissolved into the Divine Ocean of Love. The individual transcends to worlds beyond karma and returns to God, merging into transcendental Bliss."

and I do not support assisted medical killing or what is called "die with dignity" ,according to Karmic laws it is a terrible thing which breaks into the cycle of the soul.

Offline Vito

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Re: Do we have a right to die?
« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2009, 11:36:57 PM »
If G-d forbid I was in a serious accident and I was completely paralyzed or my brain was vegetative.. I would say pull the plug. That is the only situation I would feel it's appropriate.

Offline muman613

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Re: Do we have a right to die?
« Reply #17 on: March 02, 2009, 11:52:56 PM »
If G-d forbid I was in a serious accident and I was completely paralyzed or my brain was vegetative.. I would say pull the plug. That is the only situation I would feel it's appropriate.

I guess my question was not clear... I am asking whether assisted suicide should be legal. The reason those who believe in assisted suicide use is that we have a 'right' to die. I do not agree with this. We are bought into this life against our will. Why does everyone think that they have a 'right' to end their life?

Dont you believe that you are placed into this world for a purpose? Is it my 'right' to tattoo my body? Is it my right to pierce my body? This body is a gift which I should make into a mishkahn for Hashem. Some days I myself suffer so much from my condition and my mind thinks crazily. But whenever the thought that it would be better to be dead than go through all the pain I have to keep my head in Torah and the ideas perish.

Who is to say when there is no hope? Maybe people have a low threshold for pain? I cannot believe how beautiful this world is. As a Jew I live each day to do more mitzvahs, with better intention, and with simcha. When I die I will not be able to wear tzit-tzits or don tefillin any more.

I know I will not change anyones opinion on this topic. It is sad to me that anyone would rather stop living because of the nature of this world. I am speaking from the position of having both a parent and a step-parent with cancer and heart disease. I just hope that someone will watch this 1-minute movie @ aish.com. It brings tears to my eyes:

http://www.aish.com/movies/blinkofeye.asp

PS: I am currently listening to a shuir on the Mishkahn {link below}

http://www.aish.com/movies/blinkofeye.asp

PS: I am currently listening to a shuir on the Mishkahn {link below}

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Vito

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Re: Do we have a right to die?
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2009, 11:58:07 PM »
Muman, you're asking a question that is very difficult to answer. This is NOT a yes or no question. There are certain circumstances that may be an exception to the rule. But for the most part, no of course it should not be legal (remember, I say this with preconditions)

Offline briann

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Re: Do we have a right to die?
« Reply #19 on: March 02, 2009, 11:58:27 PM »
In certain horrible circumstances, It should be up to the individual, provided that the individual is in his/her right frame of mind (IE,  not on drugs, or going through withdraw, or during temporary emotionally fragile states.)

Obviously, It gets tricky if the individual is in a permanent-vegetative state, and there is no written request for these circumstances.


Offline muman613

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Re: Do we have a right to die?
« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2009, 12:08:38 AM »
In certain horrible circumstances, It should be up to the individual, provided that the individual is in his/her right frame of mind (IE,  not on drugs, or going through withdraw, or during temporary emotionally fragile states.)

Obviously, It gets tricky if the individual is in a permanent-vegetative state, and there is no written request for these circumstances.



I admit there are cases where a person should be allowed to die and not kept on life support. But in most cases it should be assumed a person wants to live and not the opposite. Im sorry if this topic is morbid... I was just interested if others here shared my opinion.

Thank you...
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline GoIsraelGo!

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Re: Do we have a right to die?
« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2009, 12:30:30 AM »
Although I do not as a rule support suicide, I do feel that people should have the right to refuse or stop treatment protocols that are painful and will only increase life by a short time.

If the outcome of a persons illness is not in question in a medical sense, to spend your last days in pain might be more torture than anything else.

That being said, I do allow for miracles and the importance of life and thus would not hasten death by artificial means, by increasing a morphine drip to the point where someone is allowed to slip away etc.  There does come a point though, where another round of Chemo etc may not really be the way to go.

I am against the suicide choice for terminally ill, however If someone wants to refuse treatment, cancer for example, that is their right and dying from cancer is not the same as terminating their life prematurely.

Offline ~Hanna~

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Re: Do we have a right to die?
« Reply #22 on: March 03, 2009, 01:21:01 AM »
This is a morbid thread but to answer this..

If G-d forbid I was in a serious accident and nothing can save me. And I am on a breathing machine for the rest of my life ad that is what is keeping me alive, and my brains are in mush then pull the plug.  That to me is not living that is suffering more

Please watch this movie... This incredible man who was striken with Lou Gerigs disease, was given only 3-5 years to live, and yet 14 years later has written nine books {six by only moving his eyes}.

This man gives me strength...

http://www.aish.com/movies/blinkofeye.asp



Oh, that sounds like a very good movie.....!!!

Another one is "Seabiscuit" about that famous horse during the great depression...they were going to put it down because it was lame but they decided to train it again and it went on to win the Kentucky Derby I think it was......

SHEMA ISRAEL
שמע ישראל

Offline muman613

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Re: Do we have a right to die?
« Reply #23 on: March 03, 2009, 04:31:00 PM »
This is very scary...


http://foxforum.blogs.foxnews.com/2009/03/02/morris_washington_euthanasia/



A Big Step Toward Widespread Euthanasia
Beginning on Thursday, March 5 in Washington state, doctors may prescribe lethal drugs to patients they determine have less than six months to live.  This marks the implementation stage of a law passed last November by voters in the state.

    Assisted suicide laws like those passed in Oregon and Washington don’t happen by chance.

In many ways, Washington’s new law mirrors a measure passed in 1997 in Oregon. But there are two reasons why I believe the Washington case, in particular, will move the country much closer to the widespread euthanasia of the most vulnerable members of our society — something its supporters promise will never happen.

At first glance the Washington law appears to be relatively moderate, with clear and restrictive parameters:

-  Patients must be at least 18 years old

-  Declared competent

-  Be a resident of the state.

-  Patients must make two oral requests of the lethal drug, 15 days apart, and submit a written request witnessed by two people, one of which must not be a relative, heir, attending doctor, or connected with a health facility where the requester lives.

-  No doctor is obliged to prescribe the drugs.

But if we scratch the surface, the whole scenario starts to get very messy. First, the new Washington law prohibits doctors from documenting their patient’s real cause of death if it is from doctor-prescribed drugs — even when they are certain the patient has taken them.  Instead, doctors must certify the cause of death as the patient’s original illness.  Yes, in Washington, what rational people would consider malpractice–lying about the cause of death–is now required by law.

This is a perfect example of the Machiavellian politics surrounding state laws that oblige citizens to subject truth (in this case medical science) to convenience, for whatever sordid reason.   According to the law’s supporters, the reason for this measure is to protect a patient’s right to privacy (apparently, an absolute right that in this case trumps even transparency).  As it turns out, this stipulation in the law makes things very convenient for the of the euthanasia movement.  Without this end-of-life documentation, it is impossible to produce definitive data about how many people will have used doctor-prescribed drugs to end their lives in the Evergreen State.

The second great reason for concern is the increasing financial benefits assisted suicide laws provide to strapped state budgets and to HMOs.  Even before our current financial crisis, there was already evidence that patients in Oregon had been offered free suicide drugs as a less costly alternative to expensive healing or palliative medicines.  A case in point was Barbara Wagner, a 64-year-old Oregon resident, who was informed last May that her cancer had returned.  Her doctor prescribed a new drug that could extend her life, but Oregon’s Medicaid program sent her a form letter saying it would not cover the cost of the drugs.   In the same unsigned letter she was also offered information about an affordable alternative: Medicaid would cover “comfort care”, including “physician aid in dying” (the lethal drugs would have cost the state less than $100).  Barbara died in October, but first left this moving video, pleading with the voters of Washington state not to let the same thing happen to them. Eventually, the director of Oregon’s Medicaid program admitted the organization sends such letters to patients whom they think have little chance of surviving.

Assisted suicide laws like those passed in Oregon and Washington don’t happen by chance.  The activist group, “Death with Dignity,” has mapped out a national strategy designed to pass similar laws across the country.  In the organization’s 2007 annual report, for example, it made its case for going after Washington as the next stop on its campaign:

“This next year, we will be directing our legal and political efforts, along with financial resources, to a coalition of groups working to expand end-of-life options for the terminally ill in the state of Washington. … [W]e have never had such great odds of success as we have in Washington in 2008. That is why we will be directing $1.5 million over the next year and a half to the efforts in Washington.”

“Death with Dignity” has recruited benefactors with high hopes for relaxing restrictions on euthanasia.  If former Washington governor, Booth Gardner, has any say (and he has already made his voice heard by donating hundreds of thousands of dollars to the assisted suicide campaign in his state), the laws will become increasingly less restrictive as we get more accustomed to the practice.  As a Parkinson’s patient, Governor Gardner has lamented that current laws still only cover terminally ill patients with less than six months to live.  While it is understandable the governor is concerned about his own future, I wonder if he has given any thought to the consequences for people of lesser means whose choice between life and death will be made for them by the state and HMOs, if he gets his way.  For the most vulnerable in our society, the buzz words of “privacy” and “choice” are never as nice as they seem to the rest of us.

Beginning this week, let’s keep our eye on Washington state.  Economics have a way of speeding things along…

God bless,

Father Jonathan
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Online Zelhar

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Re: Do we have a right to die?
« Reply #24 on: March 03, 2009, 04:53:40 PM »
I am in favor of assistant suicide for the case of terminally illness. Such practice is described at least once in the bible- King Saul asked his servant to slay him after he had fallen on his sword and yet remained alive.