orthodox jew wanna be [censored] rappa what would chaim and david think of this guy?

[gsnyc]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Buy8dLlfBZE&mode=related&search=

[Din Rodef]

Chaim was asked a similar question on a past episode of Ask JTF

He doesn't like Jewish kids imitating blacks.

[Fruit of thy loins]

More like reggae than rap?     I liked it.

[Mizrachi Jew]

I hate rap music its nothing but noise and its not even good to lesson to it. Unfournitaly my brothers likes it and act like a Schirvitaas.

[Trumpeldor]

Gimme me a break. Chaim is right when he says that Jews shouldn't imitate black culture but he is dead-wrong about Matisyahu.

Matisyahu blends rap and reggae with rock and a capella. It is true that rap and reggae are black noise but rock is American and a capella is Italian. In Judaism, a capella is called 'Sefirah' and it is usually performed while celebrating the Sabbath, in the absence of musical instruments.

Personally, I've met Matisyahu and he is a soft-spoken, kind-hearted person. His concerts on college campuses are filled with religious Jews and secular Jews (like myself), who would otherwise have very little to do with Judaism. If he inspires one Jew to take more interest in Judaism, he will be blessed by Hashem.

He is not a Woody Allen type Jew or an Ehud Olmert type Jew, the ones we are so critical of. He is a real Jew, whose talents in music should be commended by JTF.

[Allen-T]

Blacks have contributed quality music to the sonic landscape of mankind in positive ways that are undeniable. This even so to a very minor degree with rap, although I would say that, in that regard not since the late 80's/early 90's and mostly from a production point of view, not the vile crap that is "talked" about in the lyrics. Jazz is another story. I have heard different opinions about it's origin, the influence of Klezmer,etc. But Jazz is a vital, living and breathing art that has been reinvented and developed mostly by blacks over the last century. When Chaim says across the board he can't stand when blacks play Jazz I have to wonder if he needs a hearing aid . Either he hasn't heard the likes of Eric Dolphy, Thelonious Monk or Bud Powell or he just doesn't care but I think in this area Chaim makes some outrageous comments sometimes. Miles Davis was a vile human being but undenialbly a musical genius. At least twice in his career he redirected the current trends within Jazz in unique and original ways[Cool Jazz and [censored] Brew] that had an enormous impact on what followed. The reggae sounds of Bob Marley and the Wailers, 60's Soul and Funk from the likes of Ike[another animal] and Tina Turner, Aretha Franklin, James Brown and Parliament Funkadelic as well as people like Sammy Davis Jr., Mahalia Jackson and Elmore James have enriched the musical palette of mankind from which any and all creative people can draw inspiration and ideas from. To deny this is simply wrong and creatively foolish.         

[judeanoncapta]

Matisyahu is an extremely talented musician. My brother knows him personally and he is a very Good Jew.

[Din Rodef]

Matisyahu is an extremely talented musician. My brother knows him personally and he is a very Good Jew.

your brother should talk him into joining JTF 

[jdl4ever]

Actually, I think that black rap noise was a take off on early white rap style music.  Early white "rap" music sounded nothing like the black rap noise of today and was quite good and musical, telling a story in the song for a change,  but I only know of a few popular songs using it before it was taken over by the blacks.  One of my favorite artists from the 80's is Falco (even though he was an immoral bastard) and some of his songs were quite good like "Rock me amadaous" and "Jeanny".  He used a unique form of early white rap that was really good and musical (so much so that most can't tell it is a rap like style) but no one followed him really and it was taken over by the blacks and turned into this horrible noise. 

[Mishmaat]

I always thought that rap was entirely black in origin.

[jdl4ever]

I always thought that rap was entirely black in origin.

It is maybe.  I don't know what came first, early rap era white music that was vaguely similar to rap but was much more refined or black rap noise.  But in the 80's, the whites had a good take off on it but it never stuck. 

[jdl4ever]

Yakov, I was talking about something else, listen to "Rock me amadaos" and "Jeanny (don't watch the video for this one since it is vulgar)" on youtube by falco.  That stuff sounds sort of like rap but is a completely different style of white origin and is really good stuff.  I guess blacks never refined their crude concept of rap noise but the whites knew how to improve upon it and make it musical.  Falco's style was unique and was never really duplicated as far as I know but it was really good.  He liked blacks though.  One of his vids has blacks singing with him and his back up singer was black.  So probably black noise came first since according to wikipedia, it came around in the mid 70's. 

[Allen-T]

Black music became black in nature in The 1970's with disco. It was still not completely bad though. Eventually it became bad when it turned into R&B and hip hop.

R&B or "rhythm & blues" pre-dates the 1950's rock and roll explosion.   

[Allen-T]

Actually, I think that black rap noise was a take off on early white rap style music.  Early white "rap" music sounded nothing like the black rap noise of today and was quite good and musical, telling a story in the song for a change,  but I only know of a few popular songs using it before it was taken over by the blacks.  One of my favorite artists from the 80's is Falco (even though he was an immoral bastard) and some of his songs were quite good like "Rock me amadaous" and "Jeanny".  He used a unique form of early white rap that was really good and musical (so much so that most can't tell it is a rap like style) but no one followed him really and it was taken over by the blacks and turned into this horrible noise. 

Rap music first appeared around 1969-1970 with Gil Scott-Heron and the Last Poets. They both recited poetic Black Panther rhetoric over conga drums initially and later jazzed up funk. Both are musically great but their ideas are not. By the end of the 1970's Rap was beginning to take the shape of a "rapper" rhyming over "beats" meaning a DJ that manipulated two copies of the same record at once to create a static "beat", something VERY difficult to do, by the way. Rap is a totally black "street" art form that initially was an intended replacement for gang violence in the South Bronx, gangsters battle rapped with their words instead of weapons. By the late 80's technology was such that samplers replaced the dual turntable thing and "beats" became more sophisticated and multi-layered. Myself and a friend were specialising in "beat digging" at that time, that is finding interesting sounds on obscure records and selling them to the highest bidder. So I was in that world for awhile and made alot of money digging up beats. The record companies were throwing money at these guys in the early 90's to buy "samples/beats" and there were some very talented producers, like DJ Premier. The current degenerate sounding rap noise is no different than the degeneration that has gone on in music in general. Can you compare 60's 70's rock like Jimi Hendrix, Pink Floyd, Lynyrd Skynyrd or Blondie to crap like Kid Rock or Limp Bizkit? By the way, the greatest DJ/Producer in the world who has a grasp of music in general that makes me feel stupid is a white guy named DJ Shadow          

[jdl4ever]

Yeah, I guess before the digital era it was hard as hell to get those weird beat sequences worked out.  But nowadays, every rap song has the same basic beat.  I don't hear much sampling done anymore.  So in effect the black rap noise started out bad and got even worse since there is no more creativity.   I think the white rappers are half decent compared to the black ones.  Some of emenem's songs sound half decent and he is a white guy but the blacks probably hate him for that. 

Overall, I ONLY LIKE 80'S MUSIC and can't stand modern music.  There is no more creativity and it is all fake.  I know a lot about sound engenering and can tell you that 99% of the songs on the radio are more technology than musical talent.   Also, equipment was better in the 80's.  I bought a vingage 80's reverb machine since I like the simple old sound better than the overdone new machines.

[Allen-T]

I'm talking about the modern one. What was it like before? It was probably just Southern blacks moaning and groaning. Now it has a modern tune to it. The old blues music is nothing like R&B of today. Did it come from jazz? If it did, then it has its routes in Jewish Klezmer music.

I don't know about "Southern blacks moaning and groaning" but it's always a better day when Elmore James or Big Joe Turner bless my ears!! I have heard different accounts of the very origins of Jazz and Klezmers connection to it. I am not 100% sure Chaim is right about that, I don't know. My interest in Jazz starts with Bebop, around the late 40's. There is alot of music before that called "Jazz" I am not a historian enough to comment.    

[jdl4ever]

Bebop was really good.  I am a fan of it.  Did blacks invent that or did they copy the whites?  That early black bebop song "in the still of the night" was really good (no studio sound tweaking there, pure musical talent).  Compare that to modern rap noise.  Why did the black music degenerate so much?

[Allen-T]

Yeah, I guess before the digital era it was hard as hell to get those weird beat sequences worked out.  But nowadays, every rap song has the same basic beat.  I don't hear much sampling done anymore.  So in effect the black rap noise started out bad and got even worse since there is no more creativity.   I think the white rappers are half decent compared to the black ones.  Some of emenem's songs sound half decent and he is a white guy but the blacks probably hate him for that. 

Overall, I ONLY LIKE 80'S MUSIC and can't stand modern music.  There is no more creativity and it is all fake.  I know a lot about sound engenering and can tell you that 99% of the songs on the radio are more technology than musical talent.   Also, equipment was better in the 80's.  I bought a vingage 80's reverb machine since I like the simple old sound better than the overdone new machines.

Emenem sounds like every other bad rapper today to me. You are right though, there is no creativity in modern rap. Only propaganda promoting evil. Back in the 80's there was a rap group called Eric B & Rakim. Rakim's command of the English language was amazing, a regular Churchill!!! If you ever want to hear a very funny rap lp[though it has alot of profanity] there were two girls that made 1 lp called "Bytches With Problems" or BWP. They rip black men to shreds, it's so funny and the music isn't bad either!!

[Allen-T]

Bebop was really good.  I am a fan of it.  Did blacks invent that or did they copy the whites?  That early black bebop song "in the still of the night" was really good (no studio sound tweaking there, pure musical talent).  Compare that to modern rap noise.  Why did the black music degenerate so much?

Bebop is a purely black invention, it is said that one of it's inventors, Charlie Parker, said he wanted to create a music that whites couldn't play, and thus couldn't steal. I knew a guy once who was a trained musician and studied Charlie Parker's solos and thought they were created by someone from another planet, almost impossible to play. I am not a musician, I just know what I like.    

[Allen-T]

David told me that he likes some type of black music from The 1950's (I forget what it is called.) and that Chaim gets mad at David for that.

Maybe David meant Do-wop, a popular form of black vocal music from the 50's, though I think Italians were also prolific in that genre. Chaim sounds like blacks have never accomplished anything EVER sometimes. That's just not true. I would love to hear Chaim debate Phil Schapp from WKCR Columbia University on this subject. Would be interesting to say the least.      

[jdl4ever]

I am a amateur musician I guess and think there are 3 types of music based on the methods one must use to sing them (I practice singing on my spare time and play guitar). 

Opera style music which is the same as old style Europian Cantor prayer music (oh, I come from a line of famous cantors) is sung deeply from one's lungs and it takes a lot of practice to sing this way (took me five years to develop the talent to sing this way). 

Pop music is sung in a speaking style with very little vibrato of the opera style mixed in once in a while to give it an edge. 

Rock music is sung in a rough edgy manner. 

Every other style of music is based on one of these three styles.   The only genuine musical style is the first, opera style since a talented singer can sing this very load so hundreds of people can hear one sing without a mic.  The other 2 styles are of modern era out of necessity since no one can sing these styles of music loud enough to be heard over a band or for hundreds of people to hear without a mic.  Rock music is of even more modern origin since it absolutely needs compression for it to sound like rock music.  No one can sing a genuine rock song by mouth without using a microphone with a compressor.  Pop music and rock music need microphones to be heard so they are not really as genuine as opera style music.  The real music is opera which the last songs sung this way was duop and a few celine dion songs here and there. 

Addendum: Modern rap music basically someone speaks using very heavy compression so it gives the voice an upfront type of sound.  It requires no talent.  All you need is a compressor and you can be a rapper.

[Allen-T]

Where did pop come from? Where did Britney type music come from? Did it come from rock originally?

Here is a loose theory of mine; Rock and Roll from the 1950's was very catchy and simple, beautiful little nuggets of sound. As the 60's rolled on things started to expand and influences from everywhere started to flesh out Rock and Roll and the "catchy and simple" pop song was sometimes embellished, sometimes discarded. As the 70's rolled on the expansion was being taken to absurd heights[Emerson Lake & Palmer touring with a 100 piece Orchestra, Pink Floyds huge Animals floating around the venues] and still the "catchy & simple" pop tune never totally disappeared. Then, as the youth in England were becoming fed up with all this pomp and circumstance in "Rock" the lone catchy and simple pop song remerged and it was pissed off. The freight train called Punk was about to wreak havoc!! Sex Pistols singer Johnny Rotten regularly trashed every icon known to the rock pantheon. Once the temperature dropped a bit this led the way to New Wave, a sanitized version of punk that was radio friendly. Britney Spears is a twinkle in her father's eye at this point. Truth is that the more corporate interests touch something the dirtier and weaker it becomes, combined with a general dumbing down of people. The greatest pop song writers in my opinion were Marc Bolan & T-Rex,The Beatles and Elton John. Kurt Cobain had a great pop sensability that made Nirvana a good group, I think.      

[Mishmaat]

Rap music first appeared around 1969-1970 with Gil Scott-Heron and the Last Poets. They both recited poetic Black Panther rhetoric over conga drums initially and later jazzed up funk. Both are musically great but their ideas are not. By the end of the 1970's Rap was beginning to take the shape of a "rapper" rhyming over "beats" meaning a DJ that manipulated two copies of the same record at once to create a static "beat", something VERY difficult to do, by the way. Rap is a totally black "street" art form that initially was an intended replacement for gang violence in the South Bronx, gangsters battle rapped with their words instead of weapons. By the late 80's technology was such that samplers replaced the dual turntable thing and "beats" became more sophisticated and multi-layered. Myself and a friend were specialising in "beat digging" at that time, that is finding interesting sounds on obscure records and selling them to the highest bidder. So I was in that world for awhile and made alot of money digging up beats. The record companies were throwing money at these guys in the early 90's to buy "samples/beats" and there were some very talented producers, like DJ Premier. The current degenerate sounding rap noise is no different than the degeneration that has gone on in music in general. Can you compare 60's 70's rock like Jimi Hendrix, Pink Floyd, Lynyrd Skynyrd or Blondie to crap like Kid Rock or Limp Bizkit? By the way, the greatest DJ/Producer in the world who has a grasp of music in general that makes me feel stupid is a white guy named DJ Shadow          

This is very informative and you are very knowledgable. I'd just like to insert one comment: Kid Rock and Limp Bizkit fall under a new genre of "music" called "nu-metal" which is a fusion of rap and rock.

[Allen-T]

I am a amateur musician I guess and think there are 3 types of music based on the methods one must use to sing them (I practice singing on my spare time and play guitar). 

Opera style music which is the same as old style Europian Cantor prayer music (oh, I come from a line of famous cantors) is sung deeply from one's lungs and it takes a lot of practice to sing this way (took me five years to develop the talent to sing this way). 

Pop music is sung in a speaking style with very little vibrato of the opera style mixed in once in a while to give it an edge. 

Rock music is sung in a rough edgy manner. 

Every other style of music is based on one of these three styles.   The only genuine musical style is the first, opera style since a talented singer can sing this very load so hundreds of people can hear one sing without a mic.  The other 2 styles are of modern era out of necessity since no one can sing these styles of music loud enough to be heard over a band or for hundreds of people to hear without a mic.  Rock music is of even more modern origin since it absolutely needs compression for it to sound like rock music.  No one can sing a genuine rock song by mouth without using a microphone with a compressor.  Pop music and rock music need microphones to be heard so they are not really as genuine as opera style music.  The real music is opera which the last songs sung this way was duop and a few celine dion songs here and there. 

Addendum: Modern rap music basically someone speaks using very heavy compression so it gives the voice an upfront type of sound.  It requires no talent.  All you need is a compressor and you can be a rapper.

Although some of your technical points may be correct I think you are also over generalising things. Etta James could project herself quite effectively without a mic, and although I love Maria Callas I find Opera terribly boring, all technique and for me often no substance. I think because it is so unnatural. People don't communicate that way, wailing at one another! Lotsa technique, but very dull for me. Though I did hear some Wagner opera music yesterday that way pretty intense.  

[Allen-T]

Rap music first appeared around 1969-1970 with Gil Scott-Heron and the Last Poets. They both recited poetic Black Panther rhetoric over conga drums initially and later jazzed up funk. Both are musically great but their ideas are not. By the end of the 1970's Rap was beginning to take the shape of a "rapper" rhyming over "beats" meaning a DJ that manipulated two copies of the same record at once to create a static "beat", something VERY difficult to do, by the way. Rap is a totally black "street" art form that initially was an intended replacement for gang violence in the South Bronx, gangsters battle rapped with their words instead of weapons. By the late 80's technology was such that samplers replaced the dual turntable thing and "beats" became more sophisticated and multi-layered. Myself and a friend were specialising in "beat digging" at that time, that is finding interesting sounds on obscure records and selling them to the highest bidder. So I was in that world for awhile and made alot of money digging up beats. The record companies were throwing money at these guys in the early 90's to buy "samples/beats" and there were some very talented producers, like DJ Premier. The current degenerate sounding rap noise is no different than the degeneration that has gone on in music in general. Can you compare 60's 70's rock like Jimi Hendrix, Pink Floyd, Lynyrd Skynyrd or Blondie to crap like Kid Rock or Limp Bizkit? By the way, the greatest DJ/Producer in the world who has a grasp of music in general that makes me feel stupid is a white guy named DJ Shadow          

This is very informative and you are very knowledgable. I'd just like to insert one comment: Kid Rock and Limp Bizkit fall under a new genre of "music" called "nu-metal" which is a fusion of rap and rock.

It's not new, Run-DMC and Aerosmith did that 20 years ago and Public Enemy and Anthrax did it about 17 years ago.