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Offline mord

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Black monkey obamama disses to use his vernacular.. Israel
« on: March 18, 2009, 06:29:46 AM »
http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2009/ss_israel0219_03_16.asp   













Israel's visiting chief of staff finds doors closed
in Obama's Washington
WASHINGTON — Last year, Israeli Chief of Staff Lt. Gen. Gabi Ashkenazi had no problem setting up meetings with top officials in the U.S. government.

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On his current trip to Washington, Ashkenazi sought to meet the administration of President Barack Obama, but most officials were unavailable.

Diplomatic sources said Ashkenazi failed to obtain access to any Cabinet member, including Defense Secretary Robert Gates. The Israeli military chief, who sought to discuss the Iranian nuclear threat, won't even meet his counterpart, Adm. Michael Mullen, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.

"The administration is sending a very clear message to Israel, and this is we want to talk about Palestine and not Iran," a diplomat who has been following U.S.-Israel relations said.

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On March 12, Ashkenazi left for a five-day visit to the United States meant to lobby the Obama administration to abandon the planned U.S. dialogue with Iran. Ashkenazi, scheduled to meet with the American-Israel Public Affairs Committee, was expected to have brought new Israeli intelligence on Iran's nuclear weapons and missile programs.

But the diplomatic sources said the administration made it clear that nobody in a policy-making position was available to sit with Ashkenazi. This included the president, Vice President Joseph Biden, Gates, National Intelligence director Dennis Blair or Mullen.

Ashkenazi has obtained a meeting with National Security Advisor James Jones. But the sources said the meeting would focus on U.S. demands for Israel to ease military restrictions in the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

"The Obama administration believes that Israel is as much or more of a problem as it is an ally, at least until Israel's disagreements with its neighbors are resolved," former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, John Bolton, said.

Bolton envisioned that the White House would pressure Israel to legitimize Hamas and Hizbullah. At the same time, he said, Obama would continue to woo Iran.

Already, economic and diplomatic advisers to Obama have urged the president to launch a U.S. dialogue with Hamas. The US/Middle East Project, which includes such Obama supporters as former Senate Foreign Relations Committee chairman Sen. Chuck Hagel, was said to have elicited a promise from Obama to listen to any proposals made by Hamas.

"The main gist is that you need to push hard on the Palestinian peace process," former National Security Advisor Brent Scowcroft said. "Don't move it to the end of your agenda and say you have too much to do. And the U.S. needs to have a position, not just hold their coats while they sit down."

The Israeli chief of staff has also scheduled a session with Dennis Ross, the special adviser on Iran to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton. But the sources said Ross was not regarded as being in a policy-making role.

The diplomatic sources said the White House and the senior echelon of the Obama administration have refused a dialogue with Israel on the Iranian threat. They said Ms. Clinton, during her visit to Israel, was largely silent during briefings by Israeli intelligence on Iran's nuclear and missile programs.

During her visit, Ms. Clinton received written recommendations on U.S. policy toward Iran from Prime Minister Ehud Olmert, Defense Minister Ehud Barak, and Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni. The U.S. secretary said the recommendations would be relayed to the White House.

"The Israeli government and military have been alarmed by the rapid and dramatic reversal in the U.S. policy toward Iran," the source said. "This reversal took place without any consultation with Israel, Gulf Arab countries or even Congress."

The sources said Israel has sought a U.S. commitment to limit its dialogue with Iran. Israel has also urged Obama to make it clear that the military option against Iran's nuclear program exists.

But Obama and his top aides appear uninterested in hearing Israel's position. The sources said a key aim of Ashkenazi was to urge the administration to release weapons and systems long sought by Israel in the area of aerial refueling, air-to-ground weapons, sensors as well as the F-22 fighter-jet.

In 2008, under the Bush administration, Gates and then-Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice blocked U.S. requests for these military systems. The sources said Gates and Ms. Rice concluded that Israel could use this equipment for an air strike on Iran's nuclear weapons facilities.

"Ashkenazi sees this U.S. refusal as what has been undermining Israeli deterrence toward Iran and boosting the confidence of the Teheran regime," the source said. "The mullahs in regime have concluded that America has dropped the military option and won't allow such an option to Israel."


Now for the good news obama your mama didn't tell you tar baby .That Israel has the capability of destroying all the moslem middle east that includes Iran and is now strongly considering it.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2009, 11:23:43 AM by mord »
Thy destroyers and they that make thee waste shall go forth of thee.  Isaiah 49:17

 
Shot at 2010-01-03

Offline mord

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Re: Black insect obamama disses to use his vernacular Israel
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2009, 06:36:53 AM »
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1237114853776&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull   









   
   
JPost.com » Iran news » Article
Mar 17, 2009 19:02 | Updated Mar 18, 2009 1:23
'Israel could attack Iran with missiles'
By HILARY LEILA KRIEGER, JPOST CORRESPONDENT IN WASHINGTON
Print   Subscribe   Listen to this article. Powered by Odiogo.com
 

A new report has assessed that Israel could use ballistic missiles to attack Iranian nuclear facilities, rather than air power. The report also warns that such action could trigger a response that would escalate to include the use of WMDs.
An Israeli missile,...

An Israeli missile, potentially the medium range ballistic Jericho.
Photo: Courtesy
SLIDESHOW: Israel & Region | World

Abdullah Toukan of the Washington-based Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) wrote that Israel's use of Jericho III missiles to strike Iran's nuclear sites "could look much more feasible than using combat aircraft," because of the lower political and operational risks Israel would face in such an attack, since Iran still lacks an adequate missile defense system.

Toukan estimated Israel would need about 40 Jericho IIIs for the initial volley, and cautioned that an Israeli-Iranian ballistic missile exchange would turn Jordan and neighboring countries into "Ground Zero."

Of the possible routes for an air operation, Toukan presented a northern route hugging the Syrian-Turkish border as the least risky from an Israeli perspective.

He described the central route - which would entail flying through Jordan and Iraq - and the southern route - through Saudi Arabia and Iraq - as too politically risky because of the chance those countries would refuse Israel the use of their air space and object to any overflights, as well as possibly compromising the mission.

Though Turkey would pose a similar challenge, the report suggested the country could be largely avoided and that flights would be close enough to the border to be potentially presented as not occurring in Turkish air space.

Syria, on the other hand, has no peace treaty that Israel could jeopardize by violating its air space, and the latter's ability to secretly attack an alleged Syrian nuclear site in 2007 shows that Israel has the ability to avoid detection by the Syrians.

According to the 114-page report released Monday, based on publicly available information, Israel would have a major advantage in its air capabilities, since "what is known about the Iranian air defense system clearly shows how it has become largely obsolescent."

After detailing the possible scenarios for an Israeli attack, Toukan warned of retaliation from Iran, which could include ballistic missiles headed toward Tel Aviv and military centers, as well as increasing terror attacks by proxy groups Hamas and Hizbullah. The exchange of ballistic missiles, he suggested, could potentially include WMD warheads.

Other forms of retaliation could include increasing efforts to destabilize Iraq, supporting the Taliban against American-backed forces in Afghanistan, threatening US military forces and nearby countries that host them, such as Qatar and Bahrain, as well as possibly cutting off oil supplies.

Toukan proposed that the US continue its plans for engagement with Iran to explore a gamut of regional issues. He also highlighted the importance of pressing for greater nuclear controls in surrounding countries, such as Pakistan and India.

The CSIS report came out as IDF Chief of General Staff Lt.-Gen. Gabi Ashkenazi was visiting Washington to talk to top US officials about Iran, Syria, Hizbullah, Hamas and other regional threats.

His visit came days after top American and US intelligence officials seemed to take contrasting views of the progress Iran has made in developing nuclear capabilities.

However, Israeli officials here said the two countries were on the same page, a characterization US Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman Adm. Mike Mullen made in a recent interview.

"We're in agreement and have been for, oh, the better part of the last six months or so. There was a time that we weren't, but we've actually worked pretty hard to understand where we both are," he told PBS's Charlie Rose.

When pressed on whether Israel believed Iran was further along the path to nuclear weapons than the US, he responded, "Not by a significant degree."

Mullen did, however, warn about the consequences of an Israeli attack, noting that American forces were stationed in the region and could be a target of reprisals.

"What I worry about in terms of an attack on Iran," he said, "is the unintended consequences. It's the further destabilization in the region. It's how they would respond. We have lots of Americans who live in that region who are under the threat envelope right now."

He added, "I worry about it escalating in ways that we couldn't predict. So that kind of option generates a much higher level of risk in terms of outcomes in the region, and it really concerns me.
Thy destroyers and they that make thee waste shall go forth of thee.  Isaiah 49:17

 
Shot at 2010-01-03

Offline mord

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Re: Black insect obamama disses to use his vernacular Israel
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2009, 06:42:36 AM »
And here we have what a mid east nuclear war would look like             












DC Think Tank Extrapolates Actual Consequences Of An Iranian-Israeli Nuclear Conflict
June 10th, 2008 Posted By .

1

Dude, I grew up during the cold war and always thinking about how far, in miles, and in what population center’s path via wind direction I was if a nuclear strike were to occur in populated areas here in America. This article reminded me of things I had forgotten. Like a 1 kiloton nuclear warhead can cause 3rd degree burns at 8 miles and a 1 megaton can do the same at 24 miles…

Daniel Pipes has an informative, interesting, and disturbing piece up right now…

Anthony Cordesman, a strategist at the Washington-based Center for Strategic and International Studies, has estimated the consequences if Tehran gets the bomb and a nuclear exchange with Israel ensues. He expects, writes Martin Walker of United Press International,

“…some 16 million to 28 million Iranians dead within 21 days, and between 200,000 and 800,000 Israelis dead within the same time frame. The total of deaths beyond 21 days could rise very much higher, depending on civil defense and public health facilities, where Israel has a major advantage.

It is theoretically possible that the Israeli state, economy and organized society might just survive such an almost-mortal blow. Iran would not survive as an organized society. “Iranian recovery is not possible in the normal sense of the term,” Cordesman notes. The difference in the death tolls is largely because Israel is believed to have more nuclear weapons of very much higher yield (some of 1 megaton), and Israel is deploying the Arrow advanced anti-missile system in addition to its Patriot batteries. Fewer Iranian weapons would get through.”

Why such disparities in numbers? Because of differences in yield.

“The biggest bomb that Iran is expected to have is 100 kilotons, which can inflict third-degree burns on exposed flesh at 8 miles; Israel’s 1-megaton bombs can inflict third-degree burns at 24 miles. Moreover, the radiation fallout from an airburst of such a 1-megaton bomb can kill unsheltered people at up to 80 miles within 18 hours as the radiation plume drifts. (Jordan, by the way, would suffer severe radiation damage from an Iranian strike on Tel Aviv.)

Cordesman assumes that Iran, with less than 30 nuclear warheads in the period after 2010, would aim for the main population centers of Tel Aviv and Haifa, while Israel would have more than 200 warheads and far better delivery systems, including cruise missiles launched from its 3 Dolphin-class submarines.

The assumption is that Israel would be going for Iran’s nuclear development centers in Tehran, Natanz, Ardekan, Saghand, Gashin, Bushehr, Aral, Isfahan and Lashkar A’bad. Israel would also likely target the main population centers of Tehran, Tabriz, Qazvin, Isfahan, Shiraz, Yazd, Kerman, Qom, Ahwaz and Kermanshah. Cordesman points out that the city of Tehran, with a population of 15 million in its metropolitan area, is “a topographic basin with mountain reflector. Nearly ideal nuclear killing ground.”

Further, Cordesman expects that Israel would need to keep a “reserve strike capability to ensure no other power can capitalize on Iranian strike” and might target “key Arab neighbors”— Syria, Egypt, and the Persian Gulf states in particular.

Israel would have various options, including a limited nuclear strike on the region mainly inhabited by the Alawite minority from which come the ruling Assad dynasty. A full-scale Israeli attack on Syria would kill up to 18 million people within 21 days; Syrian recovery would not be possible. A Syrian attack with all its reputed chemical and biological warfare assets could kill up to 800,000 Israelis, but Israeli society would recover.

An Israeli attack on Egypt would likely strike at the main population centers of Cairo, Alexandria, Damietta, Port Said, Suez, Luxor and Aswan. Cordesman does not give a death toll here, but it would certainly be in the tens of millions. It would also destroy the Suez Canal and almost certainly destroy the Aswan dam, sending monstrous floods down the Nile to sweep away the glowing rubble. It would mean the end of Egypt as a functioning society.

Cordesman also lists the oil wells, refineries and ports along the Gulf that could also be targets in the event of a mass nuclear response by an Israel convinced that it was being dealt a potentially mortal blow. Being contained within the region, such a nuclear exchange might not be Armageddon for the human race; it would certainly be Armageddon for the global economy.

Walker concludes that Cordesman’s analysis spells out “the end of Persian civilization, quite probably the end of Egyptian civilization, and the end of the Oil Age. This would also mean the end of globalization and the extraordinary accretions in world trade and growth and prosperity that are hauling hundreds of millions of Chinese and Indians and others out of poverty.

http://patdollard.com/2008/06/dc-think-tank-extrapolates-actual-consequences-of-an-iranian-israeli-nuclear-conflict/     






About Mr. Cordesman

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Cordesman
« Last Edit: March 18, 2009, 06:49:28 AM by mord »
Thy destroyers and they that make thee waste shall go forth of thee.  Isaiah 49:17

 
Shot at 2010-01-03

Offline Ulli

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Re: Black insect obamama disses to use his vernacular Israel
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2009, 06:51:25 AM »
The missle idea is very good. This are very modern missles, so they will hit very precisly.

Iran's air defense is imo too strong for an air-strike with fighter-bombers. If Russia will sell them the S-300 system it will be totally impossible.
"Cities run by progressives don't know how to police. ... Thirty cities went up last night, I went and looked at every one of them. Every one of them has a progressive Democratic mayor." Rudolph Giuliani

Offline mord

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Re: Black insect obamama disses to use his vernacular Israel
« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2009, 06:56:19 AM »
The missle idea is very good. This are very modern missles, so they will hit very precisly.

Iran's air defense is imo too strong for an air-strike with fighter-bombers. If Russia will sell them the S-300 system it will be totally impossible.
True Russia says it hasn't delivered any,but can you trust the Russians?
Thy destroyers and they that make thee waste shall go forth of thee.  Isaiah 49:17

 
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Offline Zelhar

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Re: Black insect obamama disses to use his vernacular Israel
« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2009, 08:00:52 AM »
Russia couldn't deliver the system and Iran couldn't deploy it with complete secrecy. Iran's air defense is really obsolete except for the Tor-M1 (http://defense-update.com/products/t/tor.htm). I don't know if it is at all possible to destroy underground fortified targets with conventional ballistic missiles.

Offline mord

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Re: Black insect obamama disses to use his vernacular Israel
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2009, 08:04:49 AM »
Russia couldn't deliver the system and Iran couldn't deploy it with complete secrecy. Iran's air defense is really obsolete except for the Tor-M1 (http://defense-update.com/products/t/tor.htm). I don't know if it is at all possible to destroy underground fortified targets with conventional ballistic missiles.
Maybe they'll use tactical nukes
Thy destroyers and they that make thee waste shall go forth of thee.  Isaiah 49:17

 
Shot at 2010-01-03

Offline Zelhar

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Re: Black insect obamama disses to use his vernacular Israel
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2009, 09:19:48 AM »
Here is an essay about Iran's air defense capability, from 2005, yet still quite relevant.
http://www.defense-update.com/2005/12/irans-point-defense-upgraded.html

Quote
Maybe they'll use tactical nukes
I think even a nuke warhead requires a ground penetrating stage to be effective.

Offline mord

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Re: Black insect obamama disses to use his vernacular Israel
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2009, 09:29:19 AM »
Here is an essay about Iran's air defense capability, from 2005, yet still quite relevant.
http://www.defense-update.com/2005/12/irans-point-defense-upgraded.html

Quote
Maybe they'll use tactical nukes
I think even a nuke warhead requires a ground penetrating stage to be effective.
It might but if it's not detonated high i think it can penetrate
Thy destroyers and they that make thee waste shall go forth of thee.  Isaiah 49:17

 
Shot at 2010-01-03

Offline Ulli

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Re: Black insect obamama disses to use his vernacular Israel
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2009, 11:05:40 AM »
Zelhar, there are different parts of air-defense.

First the surface to air missles, the big radar stations, the higher echelons etc.

Second their fighter-airplaines

Third the anti-aircraft-service of all troops.

All together are the air-defense.

The Iranian Air-defense is not obsolete. And very much depends on the abilities of the soldiers. And Iranians are no Arab Muslims.

Remember how much a few military advisers from Iran advanced the Hisbollah quranimal troops in the last Lebanon war.

The quranimals fought a lot of better than ever before.

I am shure that Israeli engineers are able to put a bunker buster bomb in the warhead of a Jericho III missle. The Iranians could do in the moment nothing against it and Israel has already an working anti-missle system, so the counterstrike will not be that harmfull.

To use pilots is a great risk, because the Iranians expect them already.
"Cities run by progressives don't know how to police. ... Thirty cities went up last night, I went and looked at every one of them. Every one of them has a progressive Democratic mayor." Rudolph Giuliani

Offline Zelhar

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Re: Black insect obamama disses to use his vernacular Israel
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2009, 12:17:08 PM »
Zelhar, there are different parts of air-defense.

First the surface to air missles, the big radar stations, the higher echelons etc.

Second their fighter-airplaines

Third the anti-aircraft-service of all troops.

All together are the air-defense.

The Iranian Air-defense is not obsolete. And very much depends on the abilities of the soldiers. And Iranians are no Arab Muslims.

Remember how much a few military advisers from Iran advanced the Hisbollah quranimal troops in the last Lebanon war.

The quranimals fought a lot of better than ever before.

I am shure that Israeli engineers are able to put a bunker buster bomb in the warhead of a Jericho III missle. The Iranians could do in the moment nothing against it and Israel has already an working anti-missle system, so the counterstrike will not be that harmfull.

To use pilots is a great risk, because the Iranians expect them already.

Iran don't have an integrated modern air defense system. They have capable point defense systems but otherwise their systems are not at all impressive. Their air force is also obsolete and it is practically not a factor. IMO the Israeli air force can suppress their air defense such is also the opinion expressed in the article whose link I posted. Israel's ballistic missile capability is much more secretive then its air force but I would still be quite surprised if Israel opts to launch an attack with ballistic missiles only.

It is more likely that such missiles (or cruise missiles) will be used to destroy less fortified targets while the Natanz facility would be destroyed by strike fighters.

As for Iran's retaliation- Their ballistic missiles (Shehab-3) are the lesser threat to Israel. In the event of a strike against Iran, I expect missiles attacks from Lebanon and Gaza, and possibly with Syria joining in.