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Hello
Muck DeFuslims:
Very well said, Lisa.
Obviously JTF is not the place for someone that favors establishing a 'Palestinian' state.
Adrian seems like a level headed person. I wonder why any rational person would be in favor of a 'Palestinian' state being carved out of tiny Israel.
I suppose being duped into believing that there is a 'Palestinian' people and being generally ignorant of the true history of the region can mistakenly lead otherwise well meaning people into thinking the 'Palestinians' deserve or need a state.
But it's just so darn obvious to anyone that knows better, what a disaster this would be. Not only for the Jews - but for the entire world.
Are 22 Arab states not enough ? Are 65 Muslim nations not enough ? Is one diminutive Jewish nation too many or too big ?
One tiny Jewish nation, smaller than New Jersey, surrounded by 600 million hostile Arabs living in 22 nations with a combined land mass nearly twice that of the entire United States -- and you're in favor of carving yet another Arab state out of the lone Jewish one ??
Anyone in favor of a 'Palestinian' state is either ignorant, not thinking clearly, or an anti-Semite.
Adrian Wainer:
--- Quote from: Lisa on April 08, 2009, 03:52:09 PM ---Adrian,
I believe I can answer most of your questions.
First off, JTF is adamantly against a "Palestinian" state. First off, there is no such thing as a Palestinian. These people calling themselves that were merely Jordanians and Egyptians before 1967. Also, even Arab leaders have admitted that there's no such thing as a Palestinian people, and that it was merely a propaganda term used to destroy Israel.
JTF is against the creation of a fakestinian state because there are already over 60 Muslim countries in this world. Muslims already have 600 times the land that tiny Israel has. Furthermore losers in war do not get to dictate terms to the victors. That is exactly what these whining Arabs are. Any more land concessions would also make tiny Israel indefensible.
Now regarding Yitzkhak Rabin, we indeed view him as a traitor to the Jewish people and a murderer. This is a beast who killed many of his fellow Jews in the Altalena incident. This late unlemented, alcoholic piece of garbage also refused to retaliate against the killing of Jews by Arabs saying that the victims were to be "sacrifices for peace." So suffice it to say that Rabin is now in a very warm place.
Regarding Yigal Amir, I don't want to tell you what I think of him, as I have no idea who might be lurking here.
But in all honesty, if you are a fan of the late monster Yitzkhak Rabin, this is NOT the forum for you.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: Lisa ---I believe I can answer most of your questions.
--- End quote ---
Thank You.
--- Quote from: Lisa ---First off, JTF is adamantly against a "Palestinian" state.
--- End quote ---
This is your right.
--- Quote from: Lisa ---First off, there is no such thing as a Palestinian.
--- End quote ---
This is a complex issue, as there is certainly such a thing as a Palestinian but whether being part of a particular group of people, generates a right to a Sovereign State, is an entire different matter.
--- Quote from: Lisa ---These people calling themselves that were merely Jordanians and Egyptians before 1967.
--- End quote ---
Well, some but all not all Palestinians, in that the idea of Nationalism being a legitimate concept as a Western liberal would understand it, is very much in dispute in the Arab and Islamic World. Hence some Palestinians would see themselves as Muslim Arabs and argue before an Arab Muslim audience that, a nation state not based on a Pan Arab and Muslim identity is not a proper vehicle of Statehood for them, yet such people would also make the conflicting argument, when addressing a Western liberal audience that Palestinian Muslim Arabs have a separate identity to other Arab Muslims and therefore require their own state. Other Palestinians Arabs, would focus more on Islam rather than the Arab aspect of their identity and would argue before a Muslim audience that Muslims consist of a single nation and the only legitimate nation state for Muslims is one which includes all Muslims, whilst before a Western liberal audience, they would argue that the Palestinians are a separate entity to Muslims in general and even other Arab Muslims and therefor the Palestinians require their own State. Now, there is nothing inherently wrong in making different arguments to different audiences, for example in an election campaign, a politician speaking to farmers might speak to them about how he will seek to help farmers, by say promising to establish a new agricultural college and the same politician speaking to people who live and work in the city, may promise to put more buses on the routes in the city. But what the Palestinians are doing is different, what they are doing is, saying two diametrically opposed things, to two different audiences.
--- Quote from: Lisa ---Also, even Arab leaders have admitted that there's no such thing as a Palestinian people, and that it was merely a propaganda term used to destroy Israel.
--- End quote ---
Agreed.
--- Quote from: Lisa ---Furthermore losers in war do not get to dictate terms to the victors. That is exactly what these whining Arabs are.
--- End quote ---
This very much depends on precisely how one would define defeat and victory. Israel has scored many military victories over Arab armies, that is for sure. Unfortunately Islamofascism has scored scored many victories in the United States and Western Europe over progressive forces in ideological and societal conflicts and Israel would be ill advised not to note the reality of that.
--- Quote from: Lisa --- Any more land concessions would also make tiny Israel indefensible.
--- End quote ---
I am not suggesting returning to the 1967 pre Six Day War boundaries, my view is of Israel pre 1967 plus some of the territory captured in the 1967 Six Day War.
--- Quote from: Lisa ---Now regarding Yitzkhak Rabin, we indeed view him as a traitor to the Jewish people and a murderer. This is a beast who killed many of his fellow Jews in the Altalena incident. This late unlemented, alcoholic piece of garbage also refused to retaliate against the killing of Jews by Arabs saying that the victims were to be "sacrifices for peace." So suffice it to say that Rabin is now in a very warm place.
--- End quote ---
I think we might Park Mr Rabin and issues concerning him aside, for discussion at a later date. On the general matter of a "warm place", I didn't think Jews believed in hell?
--- Quote from: Lisa ---Regarding Yigal Amir, I don't want to tell you what I think of him, as I have no idea who might be lurking here.
--- End quote ---
That is a fair point.
Best and Warm Regards
Adrian Wainer
✡ Hindu Zionist ॐ:
welcome to JTF
Adrian Wainer:
--- Quote from: ✡ Hindu Zionist ॐ on April 12, 2009, 03:01:35 PM ---welcome to JTF
--- End quote ---
Thanks
Best and Warm Regards
Adrian Wainer
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