J4J?

[angryChineseKahanist]

Who or what is J4J?

[muman613]

Stay far away from J4J... I have links to some great anti-missionary material so anyone can argue with these fanatics. What they believe is nonsense and should be shown to the door as soon as possible. I have no patients for people like J4J because logic and reason do not work they just 'want' to believe what everyone else believes so badly... They are lost and will never be found...

[muman613]

The issue is whether he was Moshiach or not...

Jewish scripture is clear that Moshiach will come and perform certain acts. The Christian messiah accomplished NONE of the things Moshiach is tasked with accomplishing. Aside of this fact is the issue of him, or his followers, of claiming he is G-d himself which Jewish belief absolutely rejects outright. The Jewish belief is that he 'the Christian 'messiah'' could not, was not, and will never be Moshiach nor could he be G-d.

To claim otherwise is just an outright lie. Judaism has no room for heretical belief...

[Adrian Wainer]

Jews for Jesus.  It's an organization developed by Christians to make Christianity look like the "Jewish thing to do" in order to convert more Jews to Christianity.

A bit like Obama being in a party called the Democratic Party, when everything about him suggests if he is not an entirely amoral apolitical self interested fraud, he is most likely a fascist with a leaning in favor of Pan Arabism and Wahhabi like Islam with a touch of foaming at the mouth, racist anti-white hate thrown for good measure. NB I am not making any criticism of Christianity, nor am I making criticism of Judaism, both of which I have a great deal of respect for, I am only saying that Obama is a very different thing to what one would associate with the word "democratic". Just as Judaism and Christianity are very different things.  

Best and Warm Regards
Adrian Wainer

[muman613]

This site does an excellent job explaining why Judaism and Christianity are not compatable theologies and cannot be mixed...


http://www.messiahtruth.com/difference.html

[Christian Zionist]

I have never known or met a J4J in my life so far but believe J4J people do a lot of harm than good to the cause of Christianity.

I do not believe that a Christian has the ability to convert a member of another religion to Christianity.  Conversion is purely an act of Ruah HaKodesh (the Holy Spirit).  J4J people think they can convert other people to Christianity with their own their methods.  Even Jesus Himself would not approve their methods.  If someone becomes a Christian it should be through be supernatural act of Ruah HaKodesh otherwise it would be a fake conversion.  Fake converts bring a lot of disgrace to the cause of Christianity. 

This has been my position regarding religious conversions and J4J all along.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

I am not an expert on J4J by any means and do not know what Orly Taitz considers herself either. What I am about to type here is simply how Christianity in the most general sense defines its own boundaries with Judaism and I hope it does not create any further controversy.

Just for the record, I will state what Christian theology (across all denominations) teaches, which is that salvation is not caused by obedience to written/oral Halacha (at least all of it). Christianity would say that people are allowed to abide by halacha as a matter of personal choice/conscience, but that they must NOT feel that they need to do so in order to go to heaven. Pheasant was correct that it is heresy according to the New Testament to preach that one must both believe in Jesus, and abide by all Mosaic Law, in order to be "saved".

Also, Christianity does not have a concept of one's Judaism ending. Christianity, at least in the ancient (NT) and modern sense (naturally, I am aware that medieval Catholicism and Lutheranism felt very differently about it, to say the least) has never demanded that anybody "stop being Jewish" so to speak. In Christian theology--please know I am aware that Jewish theology is diametrically different on this subject--it is entirely possible to be completely, even observantly, Jewish, and fully Christian simultaneously, noting the above (that one cannot simultaneously believe in Jesus and believe that obedience to all halacha is required for salvation). After all, virtually all of the Apostles and the earliest Christians were observant Jews.

One final note that may be a bit controversial--I do know a Jew who became a Christian who, prior to her conversion, was 100% secular and did not care about Israel or Judaism whatsoever, and probably never would have without doing so. She was not duped by J4J. I cannot speak for every single Messianic, but in her case I have zero doubt that her Zionism is real and is not just a ploy to seduce other Jews.

I really wish that Paulette had not brought up J4J at all, but I do still think she is a very valued Kahanist and member of our forum and hope that she returns. Otherwise, I'm done with this topic; anyone who wants my further input on it can PM me.