Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Shalom
Dan Ben Noah:
Shalom
muman613:
It is true that the previous generations were greater than us. They were closer to the revelation at Sinai and were wiser. Even though we have the marvels of technology today they do little to make us wiser. In many cases our technology has actually made us less intelligent. Our forefathers used to read Jewish books and study in shul. They used to discuss the halacha and learn new insights into Torah. Nowadays so much of that thought process is lost and has been replaced by who is on american idol.
I hope that the future generations have wisdom from the new light which will shine on Zion.
Harzel:
--- Quote from: muman613 on April 17, 2009, 02:44:11 AM ---It is true that the previous generations were greater than us. They were closer to the revelation at Sinai and were wiser. Even though we have the marvels of technology today they do little to make us wiser. In many cases our technology has actually made us less intelligent. Our forefathers used to read Jewish books and study in shul. They used to discuss the halacha and learn new insights into Torah. Nowadays so much of that thought process is lost and has been replaced by who is on american idol.
I hope that the future generations have wisdom from the new light which will shine on Zion.
--- End quote ---
I think the passage mainly refers to the first 22 generations (up until Jacob). I know others have the opinion that this lineage was exceptional in its long lifespan and other abilities. The rest of humanity during their time didn't enjoy these abilities.
muman613:
--- Quote from: Zelhar on April 17, 2009, 05:07:08 AM ---
--- Quote from: muman613 on April 17, 2009, 02:44:11 AM ---It is true that the previous generations were greater than us. They were closer to the revelation at Sinai and were wiser. Even though we have the marvels of technology today they do little to make us wiser. In many cases our technology has actually made us less intelligent. Our forefathers used to read Jewish books and study in shul. They used to discuss the halacha and learn new insights into Torah. Nowadays so much of that thought process is lost and has been replaced by who is on american idol.
I hope that the future generations have wisdom from the new light which will shine on Zion.
--- End quote ---
I think the passage mainly refers to the first 22 generations (up until Jacob). I know others have the opinion that this lineage was exceptional in its long lifespan and other abilities. The rest of humanity during their time didn't enjoy these abilities.
--- End quote ---
I am not referring to this passage particularly but I have heard other Rabbis explain that every successive generation is on a lower level than the previous generation.
OU Talk on decline of generations : http://www.ouradio.org/index.php/ouradio/comment/44580/
http://www.vbm-torah.org/archive/bereishit/25bereishit.htm
--- Quote ---LECTURE #25: IS THE WORLD MOVING FORWARD OR IS IT IN DECLINE?
By Rav Chaim Navon
I. RETREAT OR PROGRESS?
The midrash on Parashat Chayyei Sara, cited by Rashi, contains one of the sharpest expressions of the idea that over the course of the generations, man has declined:
Rabbi Acha said: The ordinary conversation of the patriach's servants is more pleasing than even the Torah of their children. For the chapter of Eliezer, two or three pages [long], is stated and repeated, whereas [the laws of] creeping creatures are a fundamental aspect of the Torah, and [we] only [know] that its blood imparts ritual impurity like its flesh from a superfluity in Scripture. (Bereishit Rabba 60,8)
The starting point of this midrash is the astonishing fact that Eliezer's narration of his story to Rivka's family is related in full, despite the fact that the events that he describes had already been spelled out in detail. According to the plain sense of the text, other explanations of this repetition may be suggested. Nechama Leibowitz has taught us to pay attention to the differences between Eliezer's account and the original events, and to learn important lessons from the various discrepancies. Nevertheless, the words of Chazal may be understood even on the level of the plain sense of the text: the lessons that may be derived from the talk of the servants of the patriarchs are more important than the Torah of their children.
There are many other sources in which Chazal relate to the issue of the decline of the generations:
Rabbi Zera said in the name of Rabba bar Zimuna: If the earlier [scholars] were sons of angels, we are sons of men; and if the earlier [scholars] were sons of men, we are like asses, and not [even] like asses of Rabbi Chanina ben Dosa and Rabbi Pinchas ben Ya'ir, but like other asses. (Shabbat 112b)
Rabbi Yochanan said: The hearts of the earlier Sages were as broad as the entranceway to the porch of the Temple and those of the later Sages were as broad as the entranceway to the Sanctuary, but our hearts are as narrow as the eye of a very fine sewing-needle. (Eruvin 53a)
Rabbi Yechezkel Landau, author of the Tzelach, based certain halakhic decisions on these considerations. As is well known, at a certain point an acute problem arose: the authorities began to notice that calculations made according to talmudic measurements of length come out much greater – actually, twice as big – than calculations based on measurements of volume. The Tzelach suggested two solutions, and decided between them:
… And you must conclude that something has changed in our time: either the thumbs have increased in size, so that they are larger than the thumbs in the days of the Tannaim, or eggs have diminished in size, so that they are now smaller than what they had been in the days of the Tannaim. And it is known that the generations continually decline, and so it cannot be that our thumbs are larger than the thumbs in the days of the talmudic Sages. You must therefore conclude that the eggs of our day have diminished in size. (Tzelach, Pesachim 116b)
Rabbi Landau made use of the argument that "the generations continually decline" to reach a practical decision regarding halakhic measurements.
...
--- End quote ---
msd:
"Now, in Kishinev 41 Jews were killed and several tens of Jewish houses and stores were looted. This was the reality less than a hundred years ago. In the last seventy or eighty years, human society has undergone a process of barbarization, and human life no longer has any value. (Yeshaya Leibowitz, Emuna, Historiya, va-Arakhim, pp. 171-172)"
I really don't agree with that. Of course human life still has value. Even among Muslims they wish to establish a world order so that there is "peace" (no more war against infidels). I once ordered a Koran and it came with a leaflet or two of Muslim culture. In it it advised against young women being out late at night and other common sense matters, proving that they care about their own kind, but also proving that there's aspects of this culture that function differently in a good way (sharing advice in this manner).
I think our technology does get in the way of serious study. When thinking about burning down synagogues, for instance, I often thought of my dream of sitting in a jail cell having nothing to read but a Bible and perhaps a few other books.
The internet is useful for disseminating light information, short articles and columns and editorials and news updates, but for some reason electronic media just seems to put a damper on serious things. It's hard to imagine another person is on the other end. A telephone is surprisingly, always to me, more personal and affecting. I think a lot can be communicated within the confines of societal norms. A certain facial expression at the right time, especially when it's involuntary, means the world. You can't do that with the internet, and you can't have amazing Torah discussion through the internet as well, I bet. If there is such a thing.
And I've often wondered how the Torah scholars of ancient days could REMEMBER all that information. Could they really remember all of the Oral Torah? Could Moses before descending the mountain? What kind of a human being has a memory like that and what is it like then to process information. One would think that reading and communication would be boring if you had a mind like that!
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