Why is the pope invited to visit Jerusalem?

[Lisa]

According to the blogger Debbie Schlussel, that whole keffiyeh photo op was pre-arranged with the pope:

http://www.debbieschlussel.com/archives/2009/04/barf_the_pope_p.html

The couple giving him the keffiyeh are "Catholic palestinians."

[Zelhar]

I think Israel should sever diplomatic relations with the Vatican altogether. As long as the Vatican is biased against Israel and zionism the pope should not be welcomed to visit.

[cjd]

Not to be a smartbutt but the word you seek is principle. "Principal" is the dude you don't want to be sent to in school.

   

Serb,
I'm sorry.
You are correct.
I did not look over my reply before I posted it.
Thanks for pointing out my error, and I didn't take it as you being a "smartbutt".
Thanks again......

Im waiting for q_q_ to say something about the typo. It is fascinating that todays youths do not concentrate on spelling skills, nor grammar. It seems that in the Internet age the skills which were important in written communication are no longer taught or they are not learned. I must be lucky because my mother was an english teacher in elementary school and instilled in me the importance of spelling and grammar.

It is also very easy to spell correctly in the Internet age due to the simple technology of spell checkers. Even as I type this reply my spell checker has corrected several simple typing mistakes I have made. I recommend that everyone who uses Firefox should take advantage of the spelling checker and when there is a dashed-underline under a word, just right click on the word and the pop-up menu suggests the correct spelling.

In this particular case the spell checker would not have corrected Principal because Principal and Principle are homophones ( http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=define%3Ahomophones&btnG=Search ).

I would have used the word Smartypants instead of Smartbutt, but that is your decision.

Your right Serb Avenger I used the wrong spelling and I should have been sent to the Principals office more often when I was in school. The problem is that the Principal use to give me his Cadillac and send me off on errands for most of the day which was just fine by me. In the end I got a Regents Diploma with half way decent marks anyway. I have done Ok over the many years since I have been in school and exact spelling is the least of my worries. Muman don't paint young folks with such a broad brush because of my mistake. I am an old dog its been years since I have been in school 2/3 of the people on this forum were not even born when I finished school. I have been using Mozilla since even before they had the great red line spell checker. The thought went through my mind last night that I might have been using the wrong spelling of the word but after being up for 15 hours who wants to trifle with a dictionary.... if there is no red line its good to go.

[muman613]

In general I notice that even my younger friends are atrocious at spelling. Also if you read talkbacks on most American news web sites you are exposed to the terrible spelling of todays youths. I don't blame them because of your misspelling but I have virtually given up attempting to correct everyones spelling. The general feeling is that if the message is conveyed to the reader the spelling is not so important. In the older days a writer who didn't spell or use correct grammar would not be believed. I usually also proof-read my post before hitting the send button.

[Moshe92]

In general I notice that even my younger friends are atrocious at spelling. Also if you read talkbacks on most American news web sites you are exposed to the terrible spelling of todays youths. I don't blame them because of your misspelling but I have virtually given up attempting to correct everyones spelling. The general feeling is that if the message is conveyed to the reader the spelling is not so important. In the older days a writer who didn't spell or use correct grammar would not be believed. I usually also proof-read my post before hitting the send button.

I also proof-read everything I write on the internet, usually multiple times. It is often annoying reading things with bad spelling and grammar on the internet, but people who correct other people's mistakes all the time such as q_q are even more annoying.

[cjd]

In general I notice that even my younger friends are atrocious at spelling. Also if you read talkbacks on most American news web sites you are exposed to the terrible spelling of todays youths. I don't blame them because of your misspelling but I have virtually given up attempting to correct everyones spelling. The general feeling is that if the message is conveyed to the reader the spelling is not so important. In the older days a writer who didn't spell or use correct grammar would not be believed. I usually also proof-read my post before hitting the send button.

I also proof-read everything I write on the internet, usually multiple times. It is often annoying reading things with bad spelling and grammar on the internet, but people who correct other people's mistakes all the time such as q_q are even more annoying.

Yes it is annoying to see a multitude of  bad spelling in a post. I also try to proof read and spell check however the time spent doing all this may be more then  a casual post justifies. When I do have the time I enjoy looking things up and checking the post carefully however when the day has been long and I just want to reply to a thread the Mozilla and JTF spell check will have to suffice. 

[WestCoastJTF]

I wholeheartedly disagree with this too. The current pontiff was a member of the Hitler Youth as a child and he reinstated a Holocaust-denying Nazi bishop earlier this year.

I think we have to be careful lest we stray into Catholic-bashing.  Chaim has said this is not cool and there are many Catholics in the movement.

Pope Benedict XVI was technically a Hitler Youth member, but every German kid was - membership was mandatory after March 25, 1939.  Benedict was not a participating member.  A cousin of his was killed in the Nazis' T4 program (where they murdered mentally handicapped children).  Likewise, he was a German soldier (not SS, regular unit) because it was mandatory.

He did defrock and then reinstant Richard Williamson, but the reinstatement was conditional: "in order to be admitted to episcopal functions within the Church, he will have to take his distance, in an absolutely unequivocal and public fashion, from his position on the Shoah."  I personally agree that he should have been much harsher.

As regards Islam, he did once give a series of lectures that resulted in protests by Muslims.  I have this quote: "Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."  You can read more in Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Benedict_XVI_Islam_controversy

True, I would prefer a Pope who'd take a more confrontational stance versus Islam - I'm ready for the Ninth Crusade ;-)  But I don't think Benedict is some evil Nazi monster.

[muman613]

We have all discussed the problems with the current Pope. I do not forgive him for many of these issues but I will not speak against those who have faith in his church. I would suggest his followers petition him in order to rectify the wrongs which were perpetrated under the watch of the church. This is the best which we can hope for. The church should return the stolen artifacts as they still belong to the Jewish people. If this small act of regret is earnest, then forgiveness is guaranteed.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Of course I do not bash all Catholics--but the criticism of this particular pontiff is warranted. He has done many terrible things. He did try to insist, after the fact, that the Holocaust-denying bishop recant, but it was too little, too late. The Nazi bishop (ys"vz) doesn't need to repent, Pope Ratzinger does.

[Daniele.from.Italy]

The church should return the stolen artifacts as they still belong to the Jewish people.

Excuse me, I'm pretty ignorant about this, which are these stolen artifacts you are talking about?

Daniele

[Rubystars]

Unfortunately one thing that the RCC can't ever make up for no matter what they do are all the innocent lives they have taken over the centuries. I'm not only talking about Jewish people either. They murdered many Christians for having the slightest difference of opinion from their doctrine. Catholics today are allowed to disagree with their church to some degree on issues for example like birth control, without having to face the death penalty, but it wasn't always so.

[muman613]

The church should return the stolen artifacts as they still belong to the Jewish people.

Excuse me, I'm pretty ignorant about this, which are these stolen artifacts you are talking about?

Daniele

It is believed that the Church has the stolen artifacts from the second Temple which emporor Titus brought back to Rome after the conquest of Jerusalem. They have the holy menorah and other artifacts.

 http://www.southhead.org/South-Head-Weekly-News-18-July-2008/default.aspx

Dear <~~First~~>,

I couldn't help noticing that a local Jewish delegation is to meet the Pope during his visit to Sydney. From the comments of participants, as reported in the AJN, it seems that the delegation is celebrating the rapprochement between the Catholic Church and World Jewry.

Personally, I would see more reason for celebrating if the Vatican backed up its "apologies" - if that is what their rapprochement is meant to be - with some more meaningful actions.

As a suggestion, and in view of the widely publicised prisoner release taking place in the Middle East, perhaps the Vatican could commence with a prisoner release of its own.

It is well-known that the Vatican contains Jewish treasures dating back thousands of years. Amongst them are the vessels of the Temple in Jerusalem including the Menorah and the Tsits (tiara of the High Priest).

Of course, the Vatican has continually denied such claims, but this hasn't prevented Jewish delegations pressing them on every possible occasion. In the last few years these have included former President Moshe Katzav and various Chief Rabbis of Israel, Rabbi Israel Lau amongst them.

But although the Menorah's presence in the Vatican is denied by the Church Fathers, there is no doubt that they hold rare Jewish manuscripts plundered from Jewish communities after murdering their Jewish owners. These 800 manuscripts have been publicly displayed on various occasions. (For more on this, see here)

The return of these stolen Jewish treasures would give some meaning to the notion that after 2,000 years of persecution, expulsions, pogroms and crusades the Catholic Church is finally atoning for its sins against the Jewish People.

Nachmanides points out that our forefather Jacob made a serious error in not demonstrating Jewish pride in the presence of Esau, the forefather of Rome. This mistake cost us dearly during our long history. I only hope that our modern Jewish leaders learn from and rectify his error.

During the Three Weeks, which commence on Sunday, we commemorate the destruction of our Holy Temple by the Romans and the taking of our people and treasures into Roman captivity. The Romans, and their successors, the Church, cannot return the wasted Jewish lives. But what a wonderful gesture it would be if after 2,000 years the Romans would acknowledge their culpability in concrete terms by finally returning our stolen treasures.

On behalf of Rebbetzen Henya and all of us at South Head best wishes for a Good Shabbos.

May these days be transformed into days of gladness and joy with the coming of Moshiach and the rebuilding of our Holy Temple.

Rabbi Benzion Milecki OAM

[Daniele.from.Italy]

The church should return the stolen artifacts as they still belong to the Jewish people.

Excuse me, I'm pretty ignorant about this, which are these stolen artifacts you are talking about?

Daniele

It is believed that the Church has the stolen artifacts from the second Temple which emporor Titus brought back to Rome after the conquest of Jerusalem. They have the holy menorah and other artifacts.

 http://www.southhead.org/South-Head-Weekly-News-18-July-2008/default.aspx

Ok, so you mean the sack and the destruction of the temple of Jerusalem made by the Romans...
I just want to point out that the "Church" didn't actually stole anything (at that time at least), because it didn't even exist, christians were actually persecuted in those centuries by the Romans themselves, they lived in horrid catacombs under Rome for centuries (after the sack of the temple) for not being captured and killed in the most brutal ways.
In general the romans were tolerant toward other cult/religion, there were synagogues in Rome or in roman territory that were builded B.C.E.! (Some are still there and function by the way) As you probably know there were large community of jews in Italy (B.C.E.) and the largest by far was the Roman one, some of the jews who lived in the republic/empire were very wealthy merchants and very influent people... Then of course, with the wars in the mid east, the position of the average jew in Rome became quite problematic.
Anyway the same kind of "religious tolerance" were reserved most likely to any other religion or cult, you had any kind of temple in the imperial age, in my city for example there is/was actually an Isis temple near the city center
The only cult/religion romans can't stand was christianity, because they see it as some kind of sect which ultimate goal was to take over the empire itself (and it happened).

This is to say that the "Romans" who sacked and destroyed the second temple were NOT the Roman Catholic Church, that's my opinion...
I mean if they were/are the same thing then why the Romans killed Peter and Paul (the founders of the RCC) and why they killed thousand of christians in the centuries after the destruction of Jerusalem?!

Anyway back to the artifacts, which are the more interesting topic: I don't really know about the scriptures you're talking about, but I can tell you that if the original Menorah still exist (which unfortunately I really doubt of) it would be beacuse the Church itself managed to protect it throught the centuries (it may have a sacred meaning for them too), because the Romans had few respect for other cultures (a part for the greeks maybe), but they had absolutely no respect for those that didn't submit to them, so after they took the Menorah to Rome along with the other treasures of Jerusalem, to show to the people of Rome the "success" of their campaign, it's actually quite probable that they didn't preserve it, why they would have to? As they did in many previous occasions, they used to celebrate then after the "party", they just melt precious metals items regardless the sacred value they may have had for other people...

It's a big timeframe from the destruction of Jerusalem to the time Romans became christians... It's very hard to imagine that such a precious artifacts could have survived, unless we believe in miracles (and we do, isn't it so?), so if the Menorah survived until the time when the Church actually take over the empire, then I'm sure they didn't destroyed it... Althought we have to take into account that Rome (and the Vatican) have been sacked countless times in the centuries, until these days, by pagans hordes and other christians nations; the Nazis where the last one to sack both the city and the Vatican itself...
So, as I said, if the Menorah still exist and is still in the Vatican (which I doubt unfortunately), well, believe it or not it means that the "Church" actually managed to proctect it to this day.

Anyway I agree with you, if the Church really has these other sacred artifacts I think this it's a good time to give them back to their original owners...
And I also don't understand why the Pope have to visit Israel... If the people of Israel don't want him there, for their reasons, he should stay home or visit somewhere else.

Daniele

[Zelhar]

Daniele is correct, and all the odds are that the Romans melted the Menorah soon after they paraded with the spoil in the streets of Rome. The Vatican however, is likely hiding some treasures, including possibly some ancient sacred Jewish texts (confiscated Talmuds for example).

[ChaimBenMordechai]

Briann, DownwithIslam is right. This pope has not repented of anything.

Once a Nazi, ALWAYS a Nazi as far as I am concerned.