The term "Land for Peace"

[Secularbeliever]

I have always been bothered by that terminology.  When you strip away the BS what it means is the Arabs are promising (and we know how much their promises are worth) that if the Jews give them land they will stop murdering Jews.  The premise is that it is okay or accepted that they will kill Jews as long as they don't have the land.

Let's look at this in another context.  A bank robber is offering "cash for peace".  If you hand over the money he will let the Bank employees live.  A mugger on the street is offering "wallet for peace".  You get the idea.

Also can you imagine this in any other context.  If you were having a dispute with your neighbor over the property line and your neighbor was trying to kill you would you say "ok you can have the border where you want if you promise to stop trying to kill me.  In all these cases you punish, arrest, kill or otherwise deal with the aggressor until the threats are over.  Then you sit and consider their claims without any coersion.

Also the equating of Jews living in the Land of Israel with suicide bombers or other forms of genocidal murder bothers me.  I understand the UN, EU, and Barack Hor---hit Obama might be comfortable with this terminolody and this equation, I have no idea why Jews accept it.  In fact Jews invented the land for peace concept.

[zachor_ve_kavod]

This is an interesting post.  I have tried in the past to make analogies to the Israel/arab situation, but there are no parallels I can think of.  Even the examples that you gave (which are very good) don't quite represent the situation accurately.  Let me see if I can explain what I mean...

A mugger offers you "wallet for peace", meaning that if you give him your wallet he will leave you alone.  The reason that this scenario is not exactly like "land for peace", is that because if you were to give the mugger your wallet, chances are that he would leave you alone in peace.  "Land for peace" actually means "land for no peace".  If the arabs had ever shown the least bit of sincerity in their desire for land for peace, Israel would have given them lots of land (which I would have been opposed to by the way).

The mugger and the bank robber actually do want just the money.  The bank robber isn't driven by the desire to push all of the bankers into the sea.  Arabs don't want land only.  They want all of the Jews gone from Israel and eventually from the entire planet.  They want Jews murdered, preferably in gruesome ways.  They are savage people.

So while I agree that the idea of land for peace seems like pure extortion, it is in fact much worse than that.  Land for peace is a trick to weaken the Jewish state to the point when the arabs can wage total war on what's left of Israel, for the purpose of annihilating the Jews.

[ag337]

There is no such thing as "Land for peace".

It is complete contradiction, because the issue for them is not land and not peace.
If the case was really about "Land for peace", then attacks such as 9/11, London bombings, and European riots have nothing to do with peace or land; all these occurrences caused deaths and/or injuries to innocent people who having nothing to do with conflicts in the Middle East.

So, since this is the situation, I really do believe that Israel should not give a quarter of an inch of land to the Arabs.

[New Yorker]

There's no "Land for peace", there is "Land for vicious terrorist attacks". I have never observed this mythical peace they talk of.

[muman613]

There is no such thing as "Land for peace".

It is complete contradiction, because the issue for them is not land and not peace.
If the case was really about "Land for peace", then attacks such as 9/11, London bombings, and European riots have nothing to do with peace or land; all these occurrences caused deaths and/or injuries to innocent people who having nothing to do with conflicts in the Middle East.

So, since this is the situation, I really do believe that Israel should not give a quarter of an inch of land to the Arabs.

Sheesh, I wouldn't even give them arabs an eighth of an inch of Israels land!

[GoIsraelGo!]

There is no such thing as "Land for peace".

It is complete contradiction, because the issue for them is not land and not peace.
If the case was really about "Land for peace", then attacks such as 9/11, London bombings, and European riots have nothing to do with peace or land; all these occurrences caused deaths and/or injuries to innocent people who having nothing to do with conflicts in the Middle East.

So, since this is the situation, I really do believe that Israel should not give a quarter of an inch of land to the Arabs.

Hi ag337, the muslims don't really want Israel for anything....the muslims just don't want the Jews to have it. The land for peace is the BIGGEST lie ever told.
Even if Israel gave away half of it's land, the muslims would steal the other half.
I think the muslims should have been nuked on 9/12, 2001. The World can do without the BS coming from the Cult of Death and Destruction.


                                                                                   Shalom - Dox

[ag337]

There is no such thing as "Land for peace".

It is complete contradiction, because the issue for them is not land and not peace.
If the case was really about "Land for peace", then attacks such as 9/11, London bombings, and European riots have nothing to do with peace or land; all these occurrences caused deaths and/or injuries to innocent people who having nothing to do with conflicts in the Middle East.

So, since this is the situation, I really do believe that Israel should not give a quarter of an inch of land to the Arabs.

Hi ag337, the muslims don't really want Israel for anything....the muslims just don't want the Jews to have it. The land for peace is the BIGGEST lie ever told.
Even if Israel gave away half of it's land, the muslims would steal the other half.
I think the muslims should have been nuked on 9/12, 2001. The World can do without the BS coming from the Cult of Death and Destruction.


                                                                                   Shalom - Dox

   

Dox,
I am in 100% agreement with you.

[Secularbeliever]

A mugger offers you "wallet for peace", meaning that if you give him your wallet he will leave you alone.  The reason that this scenario is not exactly like "land for peace", is that because if you were to give the mugger your wallet, chances are that he would leave you alone in peace.  "Land for peace" actually means "land for no peace".  If the arabs had ever shown the least bit of sincerity in their desire for land for peace, Israel would have given them lots of land (which I would have been opposed to by the way<< Zachor

Very key point.  I was presenting "land for peace" in the very best light and still found it lacking.  You correctly point out that it is fraudulent and it is incorrect to present in a favorable light.  Our views are fully compatible despite any apparent conflicts.

Let's say a group like the Druze or followers of the Dalai Lama replaced the so called Palestinians as the non Jewish inhabitants of the Land of Israel.  Let's even suppose they want their own state.  Suppose they were content to live next to Jews and in fact wanted Jews to live next to them.  They felt that Jews brought prosperity and progress to the area and wanted it to continue.  If they found themselves in charge of land that included Jewish holy places they would guard it zealously to make sure they were protected and accessible to Jews who wanted access to them.  Statehood would be at most a minor issue for both sides.  Borders would not be determined by armed conflict but hopefully by both sides sitting down and drawing the most rational borders.   They would not badly need a State nor would 95% of Jews object vehemently if they had a State.  The reason statehood is an issue is because a State can have an army, air force etc. and a Palestinian State means a threat to what is left of Israel as well as creating hundreds of thousands of Jewish refugees.  To the extent Arabs want a Palestinian State, (they keep turning it down when they can have it for the cheapest most meaningless gestures) they want it to take land away from Jews and murder Jews.

Again the most frustrating part of this conundrum is that Jews created the concept of Land for Peace.  A rational approach would be total defeat of any military threat or terroristic threat to Jews and then figuring out what kind of peaceful arrangement should be made.  The only bad news for Kahanists under these circumstance is that Israelis would give their neighbors whatever they want in this circumstance.  Of course it is such a fantasy at this point that the rational thing to do is to just defeat the Arabs and recognize this discussion is many years if not generations from being relevant.

[drlmg]

"land for peace" = Israel giving land to PA = better strategic terrorist base position for PA = PA closer and easier to fire into Israel or sneak through check points = don't have to carry that heavy explosive laden belt as far..last but not least, obama likes this. I am sure everyone is eager to please our great ruler and Uncle Sammie!!