Author Topic: SHTF: SURVIVAL GUNS GUIDE  (Read 8923 times)

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Offline White Israelite

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SHTF: SURVIVAL GUNS GUIDE
« on: October 29, 2007, 10:38:24 AM »
I found this on one of my old cd's from 1995. Looks like much of the information is still valuable with the exception of certain guns no longer being imported as well as prices going up. Enjoy

                               SURVIVAL GUNS

Date written:  2/93


About the author:

     I have been putting together a survival arsenal since 1974, and I
owned a survival equipment store in Texas from 1978 to 1980.  Since 1979 I
have held a Class 3 machinegun & silencer dealers license.  I've had no
experience in the military, other than the Coast Guard Auxiliary and the
Texas State Guard, neither of which amount to much.

     I've fired many thousands of rounds in some of the guns I write about,
others I have never fired.  However, over the years I've kept an ear open
to the experiences others had with the guns I have not fired.

     I am not a gunsmith, and my experiences with such consist of only
replacing parts in military weapons, which is no major feat.

     I do not claim to be an expert in this field, and am only attempting
to pass along my experiences and impressions to you, for whatever they may
be worth.



Introduction:

     It is assumed that if you are reading this, you may be considering the
possibility of socio-economic collapse from any number of reasons.  If it
comes to this, we all know that it won't be like the depression of the
1930's, when the unemployed homeless came around to your back door at
mealtime, begging for a bowl of soup which those employed were willing to
share.

     Now days people are dependant on gov't welfare, and consider it their
_right_ to be given (or take by force) the necessities of life.  For every
family that gives up vacations, meals out, consumer goods, etc. to prepare,
thousands & thousands of other families will not!  You survival will depend
on your ability to protect what you have.


Retreating:

     Unless you already live in a very small town, or in a sparsely
populated area out in the country, it is imperative that you have somewhere
to go.  At the onset of socio-economic collapse the cities will rapidly
become a death trap.  Plan on getting the hell out at the first sign of
things going bad!

     The ideal situation for city dwellers is to have a farm or ranch over
100 miles away from any major city.  If you live on the coast, then figure
it at 200 miles, because the population fleeing the city can only go in one
direction.  If you can get farther away than this, then do it.  The rule of
thumb used to be "at least a tank of gas away from any city."  However,
with the advent of more fuel efficient cars, this is getting much harder to
do.

     You don't want to pick an area with neighbors that are laid back and
totally unprepared.  You want your neighbors to be armed and fiercely
independent, willing to fight to protect what is theirs.  Many of the rural
folks in Texas fit this criteria.  If your neighbors are unarmed and
unwilling to protect themselves, they will only attract looters & rabble
from the city to the area.  Neighbors can help protect and reinforce each
other.  You also must be psychologically prepared to protect yourself and
your family.

     If you cannot afford to buy your own place, you are going to have to
find somewhere to go, ahead of time.  Do you have any relatives that live
in the country or small communities?  How about friends?  If not, can you
make some friends that do?  You could buy a gun vault to keep in their
house.

     If all else fails, I guess you could retreat to public land, but I
wouldn't rate your chances very good.  You would have to pick out a place
to bury your supplies at, and hope nobody finds them.  Not too good of a
bet.

     Never retreat alone.  Looters are much more likely to attack
individuals than groups.  One person can't stay on watch for 24 hrs/da.


BUG-OUT KIT:

     Buy an army pack, camouflaged combat clothing, hiking boots, and
military web carrying equipment for each member of the family to keep at
home in the city.  Hopefully, you will get out of town soon enough to drive
to your retreat, but be prepared to walk all or part of the way if that's
what it takes.  Keep enough weapons, ammo & survival gear to get you there.
Your heavier weapons, and the bulk of your ammo and survival gear should be
stored at your retreat.


EXIT ROUTE:

     Don't plan on being able to drive to your retreat by the regular
highway route.  Go to a map store & buy the US Geological Topographic
Survey maps covering every area you drive through to get there, plus the
general areas around your retreat.  If you can't find these maps, call USG
at 703-648-5990.  Also buy county maps of every county you have to pass
through.  In Texas a private publisher has put into booklet form every
county map in the state, for about $14.

     Now, you will have to drive to your retreat on back roads, using these
maps.  Use as many roads as possible that don't show up on your state
highway map.  You'll likely find that these roads will take longer, but
they'll get you there, while avoiding populated areas.  Traffic will be
light because only those prepared as well as you will be able to find them
or know where they go.  

     Mark your routs with a highliter.  Note possible hazards along the
way.  These might be routs near military bases, prisons, low water
crossings, rivers prone to flooding, etc.  Write down the road numbers as
you go, for some county maps show the roads but not the numbers.  Take
different routs in different kinds of weather.  Mark "holding-up" places
for car repairs, meeting friends or relatives on the way, etc.

     When you get your maps marked like you want, coat them with a water
proofing compound.  This also makes the paper tougher & less prone to tear
at the folds.  "Stormproof" is one brand you might find at the map shops.
A new product just came out called "Map Seal."  Contact Aquaseal in
Everett, WA at 206-290-7530.  They also have some new leather waterproofing
compound, waterproof tent coating, etc.  Both of the products are a liquid
you just paint on with a brush.

     Now to the guns............


PISTOLS:

     Rifles are the backbone of your survival battery.  However, every
adult member of your group must have a pistol because it can always be by
your side.  Whenever visiting the retreat, all members should wear their
pistols so as to get familiar with them and used to carrying them.  Do some
shooting each time, too.

     When it comes to survival pistols, forget about revolvers.  They don't
hold enough shells, are too slow to reload, too heavy, and are open to
dirt.  Also, it is hard to replace parts in them if they break.

     Semi-automatic pistols are a must!  Preferably the new ones with high
capacity, double column or staggered magazines.  The smallest caliber you
should consider is 9mm.  I am of the school of thought that "bigger is
better," so I prefer the slow moving .45 ACP cartridge.  Others think the
faster, but smaller 9mm is better.  No one can _prove_ which one is best,
so select the one you like.  In between calibers are .38 Super Auto, .40
S&W, and 10mm, the most common (& easiest to find) being .40.

     In my experience, the Glock pistols are by far the best choice.  They
are very light because of the plastic receiver (frame) they have.  Even so,
they are about the strongest pistol on the market.  The factory not only
allows, but recommends that you shoot a steady diet of hot submachine ammo
in them.  They say that their pistols will handle any cartridge currently
manufactured in the world that is the proper caliber.  That's a far cry
form S&W and other brands of light alloy frame pistols, which you have to
call the factory first to see it they will handle the hot loads.  Many
models are not capable of handling hot loads.

     Since the Glock has a plastic frame, it cannot rust.  The barrel,
slide and the parts are coated with a black substance that will not come or
wear off, with a hardness second only to diamonds.  The pistols are highly
reliable and _very_ accurate, but moderately priced.  They all have high
capacity magazines.

     Spend the extra $100 or so, and get the nuclear powered night sights.
These are a must.  You can fire accurately at a target at night if you can
only see the silhouette of it.  They turn it into an effective 24 hour
weapon instead of a daytime weapon.  These are well worth the money.  If
you already have a Glock without night sights, send it back to the factory
& have them installed.

     Whatever kind of pistol you settle on, get one of the Bianchi UM84 or
UM92 nylon military holsters to attach to your GI pistol belt.  If budget
restrictions apply, a leather US Army flap holster will do.  Get one or two
double magazine pouches to attach to your web gear & fill them with spare
magazines.

     Glocks cost around $500+ without the night sights.  If you can't
afford this, look at the Chinese Norinco 1911 type .45 pistol.  For around
$200 they have a 9mm Tokarov pistol which works ok.  For a little more, you
can get a Tokarov with a staggered (high capacity) magazine.  Karen, an
Israeli company, now imports a plastic framed pistol styled after the
Browning Hi-Power ($300+), which holds 14 rds. of 9mm.  There are many
other Eastern European companies that offer inexpensive pistols.

     In my opinion, it is no use looking at pistols more expensive than the
Glocks.  They can't do anything the Glock won't do as well, or probably
better.

     Get at least 3 or more extra magazines for each pistol. That way, you
can carry 2 loaded in a belt pouch & have a 3rd to rotate so that they all
don't stay loaded all the time & eventually weaken the springs.  You also
might damage or lose one.

     I would establish a goal to eventually stock 500 rounds at the retreat
for each pistol.  A bare minimum per gun should be 250 rds.  Don't shy away
from 750+ rds./gun.  Extra ammo can always be used to barter with your
neighbors.

     In semiauto pistols, only ball ammo (full metal jacket) should be used
initially.  Fire the pistols 100-200 rounds to break them in.  After that,
you can experiment with hollow point ammo if you desire.  It will function
is some autos, and not others.  Be sure you fire 100-200 rds. of hollow
point in your pistol without any jams before you depend on it.

     Learn well how to take your pistol apart so you can keep it cleaned &
oiled.


RIFLES:

     All weapons have their strong points as well as their limitations.
Always utilize your weapons to maximize their effectiveness.  The following
gives an example of suggested weapon usage versus range:

0 - 50 yds.:

     Riot Shotgun with 12 gauge buckshot.  Out to 100 yds with slugs.


50 - 300 yds.:

     .223 (5.56mm) - AR-15, .223 Galil

     7.62x39mm - SKS, AK


300 - 800 yds.:

     .308 (7.62x45mm) - M1A, HK91, FN-FAL, .308 Galil

     30-06 - M1 Garand, '03 Springfield

     8mm (7.92mm) - Mauser, FN-49

     303 British Enfield


     The riot shotgun (barrel 20" or less) is an extremely devastating
weapon out to 50 yds.  Pump shotguns are cheap ($250.00), so purchase
plenty of them.

     Out to 300 yds the .223 is flat shooting and fast shooting.  It's
ideal to repulse a typical assault at medium ranges.

     Beyond 300 yds the .308 battle rifle is vastly superior in accuracy
and effectiveness.  With scopes, you can engage the enemy long before they
can return accurate fire.

     Automatic weapons may be of questionable value for survival use.  It
is unlikely that you will have to repel an assault that cannot be handled
by accurate semi-auto fire.  If your budget allows automatic weapons, go
light on the submachine guns, but do have them fitted with sound
suppressors (silencers).  Of more use would probably be the 1918-A2 BAR or
the FN-FALO squad support machine rifle.  A Browning 1919-A4 belt-fed
machine gun might be of use mounted on a tripod or in the back of a pickup
on a vehicle pedestal mount.  If you use these, remember to stock _plenty_
of ammo!

     Silenced .22 rifles & pistols might be of some use in taking out
sentries quietly, or for hunting small game without drawing attention.
About half the states allow ownership of suppressors and machineguns.  If
you live in a qualifying state, find a Class 3 dealer in your area.  There
is a $200 tax on each item, and they must be Federally registered.

     In 1989, George Bush banned the import of modern infantry rifles by
Presidential decree.  Those such as the HK91, FN-FAL, Galil, Styer AUG, AK,
and others are no longer being imported.  The ones previously imported &
sold now bring premium prices or $1500-$2500 each.  

     Recently, foreign manufacturers have modified the guns to make them
"sporters."  They now have "thumbhole" target stocks.  Basically, this is
accomplished by adding material the stock to connect the bottom of the
pistol grip with the rear of the stock, leaving a hole for your wrist to
fit in.  Reports from people having used them are favorable.  Some say they
get a more stable hold with this modification, only they look a little
funny.  The bayonet lug has been removed, being of little consequence.
They are fitted with 5 rd. magazines, but the old 20, 30 & 40 round
magazines are still being imported & will fit these new rifles.  However,
legislation has been proposed to stop the import of these larger magazines.
Flash hiders have also been removed, with creates more flash, but at the
same time reduces the muzzle blast for the position of the shooter.

     The only domestically manufactured infantry rifles are the Colt AR-15
and the M1A.  The AR-15 is the semi-automatic counterpart to the M-16
rifle, and the M1A is the civilian counterpart to the M-14 .308 automatic
rifle.


SHOTGUN EVALUATIONS:

     Buy plenty of shotguns!  Pump shotguns are by far the best because
they are the most durable & less prone to jam than semi-autos.  They are
simple to operate.  A 20" barrel is the best.  It's short enough to fire
easily from a vehicle & it's fast to swing form target to target.  

     The legal minimum barrel length under Federal law is 18", but that
increases the muzzle blast significantly.  Don't saw one off to a shorter
length because it's a 2nd degree Federal felony punishable by 10 years &
$10,000.  Also, you lose your choke at the end of the barrel, which may
throw off you patterns.  The only reason for a shorter barrel would be for
hiding under a trench coat, combined with a folding stock.  If you must go
this route, buy it legally from a Class 3 dealer & make sure you get it
with an interchangeable choke tube.

     The chokes on most 18" & 20" riot shotguns is cylinder bore, meaning
it's about the same size opening as the shell.  This is really not the
best, as with 0 buck or 00 buck, you will typically only get about 2 solid
hits and one "nick" on a silhouette target at 50 yds.  A few companies,
like Remington, sell deer hunting shotguns with 20" barrels that are choked
improved cylinder, or some even have interchangeable choke tubes.  I think
improved cylinder is about the best compromise between large patterns and
pattern density, so try to pick one of these up.  Always test your shotgun
patterns on paper silhouette targets to see how far you effective range
extends.

     Shotguns typically hold about 4 rounds in the tubular magazine, with
the plug removed.  If at all possible, purchase an extension magazine tube
from an aftermarket source.  Chote Machine makes the best one for
Remingtons & Winchesters.  This is the brand the FBI, State Dept., etc.
uses.  They increase magazine capacity to 7 rds with a 20" barrel, and 6
rds with an 18" barrel.  You can purchase these from LL Baston Co. in
Arkansas.  Call 800-643-1564 for a catalog.  They have many other useful
items, like rifle & pistol magazines, scope mounts for military rifles, and
a whole lot of other accessories.

     The least expensive riot shotguns are Maverick Arms, an Eagle Pass, TX
company now owned by Mossberg.  The actions are a little rough, but that
matters little when the chips are down!  They come standard with synthetic
stocks & forearms which are far superior to wood for survival use.  Their
riot gun shouldn't run much over $200.

     Mossberg makes many models of riot guns with synthetic & camo stocks,
heat shrouds over the barrels (so you won't burn your hand when you roll
the barrel over in your hand to reload).  Theirs run from about $225 to
$350.  They are a more known quantity than Maverick Arms.  Mossberg sells
some with only pistol grips on the back, instead of a shoulder stock.
Avoid these, unless you are planning to only use it in your car.

     Remington makes a good pump shotgun.  It has a machined steel
receiver, and a double rail pump action, which is stronger and more stable.
The cheapest models are the 870 Express, which they came out recently to
compete with Mossberg and others.  Buy this one because it is just as sound
as the others model, only they have cheaper wood on them.  Their Express
model riot gun, called the Security model has an 18.5" cylinder bore
barrel.  But for the same price, they offer a Deer Gun model with a 20"
improved cylinder barrel with rifle sights.  This is what I would buy.
They cost around $300 - $325.

     Winchester also offers riot guns, but they cost about the same as
Remington but don't have the dual-rail pump on the action, I don't think.
Remington & Winchester both offer "Marine" models made of stainless steel
or that have special metal coatings to resist salt spray, if you have that
problem.

     Most currently manufactured shotguns come standard with 3" chambers,
but I would not pay extra for them.  The 2.75" shells are preferable in my
opinion.  See Ammo Section for more information on this.

     Most of these companies offer a "combo" package, with a riot barrel &
a longer barrel for bird hunting.

     The best way to learn how to use your riot gun is to take it out in
the woods hunting, extensively.  You can take deer, javalena, turkey and
other vermin with it.  Take it dove hunting, especially if you have an
improved cyl barrel.  Use at least 1.25 oz shot loads.  If you have a cyl
bore gun, you might have to load up your own birdshot for it.  You'll have
to reload heavy duck loads, like one & three-eights oz of shot to get a
dense enough pattern for anything but short range.  Doing this is going to
make it kick, but so is using buckshot.....and that's what you bought it
for!


MEDIUM RANGE "ASSAULT" RIFLES:

Colt AR-15 (.223):

     By far, the best bet on .223 rifles is the Colt AR-15, or any of the
aftermarket copies.  Here's several important reasons why:

1) Domestically manufactured, therefore cheaper than an import.  Price is
around $700. Good used ones can be had for even less.

2) The M-16 is current issue military.  That means that magazines & spare
parts are cheap and readily available.  You should be able to find them at
most any gun show.

3) They are durable & battle tested everywhere from the jungles of Vietnam
to the deserts of Iraq.  The jamming problems of the late '60s and early
'70s have long ago been worked out.

4) Easy to operate & extremely fast to reload.

5) Accurate & light weight.

     The AR-15 SP-1 (most likely to find used) is no longer made, but had a
1x12 rifling twist. This causes the bullet to tend to turn sideways
(keyhole) after it strikes flesh, a desirable trait.  However, at shorter
ranges (maybe 0-50 yds) the bullets tend to just zip straight through with
minimal stopping power.  The older M193 type 55 grain bullets work best in
it.  The only modification desirable on the SP-1 is to purchase a quality
round AR-15 A2 front handguard (like Lone Star Ordinance) and replace the
tapered one that comes with the gun.  Make _sure_ it has the stainless
steel heat shields in it.  Cost is about $20. or so.

     After that, came the AR-15 A2.  It has a 1x7, or even worse a 1x9
barrel twist.  Though 55 grain bullets can be used in it, it was designed
for a 65 grain bullet, which the military now uses.  There is less chance
that the bullet will keyhole after it hits.  The plus side is that they are
supposed to have a little more power and accuracy out to a little bit
longer range.  All but the very first A2 models have the rear sight drum
adjustable for elevation out to 800 yds, which is of dubious value.

     The newest model is the Colt Sporter.  This is exactly the same as the
AR-15 A2, only they changed the name after the import ban.  

     This is a light caliber (.223), therefore extensive use should be made
of soft-point ammo.  I'll make a drastic difference on personnel. All these
rifles take a standard scope quite easily with an inexpensive mount.

     The current issue military ammunition magazine for the M16 (also fits
AR-15) holds 30 rounds.  There aren't many Colt magazines around for a
reasonable price, but military contract manufacturers are Advertureline,
Ok, Lackey (or some such), etc.  These are just fine & can be found at the
gun show for $7 - $12, unless there is pending legislation to ban them.
The military used to use 20 rd magazines.  Get some of these because they
work much better when firing from a prone position!  The 20 rounders may
cost as much or more than the 30 rounders.  The 5 rd mags that come with
the new Colt guns can be converted to 20 round by drilling out the rivets
in the floor plate & removing the spacer inside the mag.  

     Steel 40 rd mags are available from Sterling Arms in England, or
Federal Ordinance in the US.  They run around $20.  They will not fit in
the Army magazine pouches, so you have to buy shoulder strap pouches for
them.

     There is a 90 round drum that costs probably $65, and the Chinese are
bringing in one that holds 125 rds.  I don't know of anyone who has tested
the Chinese drums for functioning and quality, yet.  I think they cost over
$100.  However, the Chinese drums are like Thompson SMG drums, in that you
can keep them loaded indefinitely & they don't put tension on the spring
until you wind them up.  The 90 rounder keeps constant tension on the
spring when loaded.


Ruger Mini-14 (.223):

     I avoid this rifle like the plague!  While the AR-15 is the civilian
version of the M-16 automatic assault rifle, the Mini-14 is a light
sporting rifle, best suited for the 5 rd. magazine it comes with!  Most of
them can't take the heat of rapid fire, the groups open up to several feet,
as opposed to several inches with the AR-15.  Some shoot ok, but you have
to take them out and test fire them to be sure.  AR-15's always work.  Many
Mini-14's are prone to slight jamming, like the bolt not closing all the
way, sometimes.  Just enough to get you killed!  Even if you get hold of a
good one, magazines cost more & you can forget finding spare parts cheap at
a gun show.  If you can't afford an AR-15, then avoid the cheaper Mini &
get a $135.00 Chinese SKS instead, at least it's a _real_ infantry rifle.

     When looters assault my retreat, I hope they all have Mini-14's!


Israeli Galil .223:

     The Galil is supposed to be a good rifle, as they are current issue
for the Israeli Army, among M16's and others.  They are just being imported
again by Action Arms, with a thumbhole stock & without flash hider &
bayonet lug.  These run about the same as an AR-15, around $700.  However,
magazines & parts are going to be much higher & harder to find.


Styer AUG .223 (Austria):

     The import ban got this one!  It's an OK rifle, but is now very, very
expensive.  Magazines are real expensive & you probably can't even find
parts anymore.  Besides, it's no better than the AR-15.


« Last Edit: October 29, 2007, 10:56:40 AM by Cohen »

Offline White Israelite

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Re: SHTF: SURVIVAL GUNS GUIDE
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2007, 10:38:43 AM »
HK-93 .223 (Germany):

     Import ban got it too, so its expensive.  It's much heavier than the
AR-15 and not as reliable.  Magazines & parts are easier to find than the
AUG, but are pretty expensive.  This gun is just too heavy for a .223, as
it weighs almost as much as a .308.


Chinese SKS 7.62x39:

     The import ban didn't affect this one!  It has a folding bayonet
mounted on it & cost about $135.  This is the cheapest infantry rifle you
can get.  It has a 10 rd built-in magazine, which loads from 10 rd stripper
clips inserted from the top of the bolt.  There are no expensive magazines
to buy.  For about $20 you can get a 20 rd built-in magazine to replace the
10 rd with.  Just be sure to keep your old 10 rounder because the 20
rounder sticks out more & is prone to getting bent!  Ammo is super-cheap.
Try to find an ammunition chest pouch for it, which holds about 200 rds in
stripper clips.  If you are making preparations on a tight budget, get
plenty of SKS's.  If you already have a battery of expensive guns, get some
SKS's too, you might have some unarmed friends or relative show up at your
retreat.  These are great "burying rifles."

     Like the AK, they group a little wider than most Western infantry
rifles, but they are reliable & made to take the heat of sustained fire.
Many come in with the sights off zero, so it's a good idea to buy a sight
adjustment tool for the front sight, one that will adjust both elevation
_and_ windage.


Chinese AK 7.62x39:

     These are being imported again with thumbhole stocks, selling for
about $275.  They will take the 30 rd mag, or the 75 rd drum.  They provide
more firepower than the SKS & don't cost a lot more.  The model of this
rifle is MAK 90.

     Norinco also offers an AK Sporter for under $250.  This rifle has a
traditional hunting stock & no pistol grip.  It is imported with a 5 rd
magazine, but of course accepts all the various AK mags.  It has a forged
steel receiver like the original AK-47, before the sheetmetal receiver AKS
& AKM came out.  That means it is a couple of pounds heavier than the other
AKs.  It also might be more accurate, as the sheet metal receiver tends to
warp just a little bit every time a round is fired.

     When considering AK vs. SKS, keep in mind that it's just about
impossible to fire an AK from the prone position with 30 rd mag attached.
However, you can buy 5rd & 20 rd mags for the AK.  The price of 30rd mags
is $10 or so.


.30 M1 Carbine:

     Cartridge is too small & too light for reliable stopping.  If you
already own one, sell it and buy some SKS's!  That's what I'd do.


FULL SIZE BATTLE RIFLES

Springfield Armory M1A .308:

     This is the semi-auto counterpart of the M14 rifle the US used in
early Vietnam.  It is one of the few .308 infantry rifles currently
manufactured in the US.  I never owned one of these, but years ago, when
they first came out, some of them had problems.  However, I never hear any
complaints about current production models.  These probably run $1,000+,
and aren't real common to find in smaller gun stores.  You may have to have
your dealer order you one.  They use the standard 20 rd M14 magazine which
can be found pretty easily for around $15.

     The M1A would be a good choice for a full-size battle rifle.


Springfield Armory BM59 & BM63 .308:

     Springfield Armory may still manufacture a few of these.  They are
shorter & lighter than all the other .308 infantry rifles.  Since the
barrels are shorter, they don't have quite the long range accuracy & punch
that the longer rifles have.  However, they are lighter for carrying & much
more handy for shooting out of a vehicle than, say, an FN-FAL.

     If you are going to get these, spread a few of them around your
survival retreat group, but also get some .308 infantry rifles with longer
barrels & scopes.  These rifles will probably run $1,000.+


Norinco M14:

     This is also a semi-auto version of the M14, but this one is made in
China.  These haven't been on the market for very long, & I have no idea as
to their quality.  However, they cost about $400-$500!  That's a plus.
These might be well worth checking out.


HK-91 .308 (W. Germany):

     These were very popular before the import ban, mainly because they
were a little cheaper than other imported .308 infantry rifles.  It should
be pretty easy to find some of these on the used market, for around
$1,000+.  The most common magazine size is 20 round, though a 30 round is
made by HK, and also a US after market manuf.  HK's have a much heavier
trigger pull than most.  Scope mounts are nice, but very expensive ($300+).
They have a locking roller on each side of the bolt, which will cease to
function if they get coated lightly by rust.

     They have been importing this rifle with a thumbhole stock for some
time, so new ones are available.  I don't know how much they cost, but
suspect they are over $1200 retail.


FN-FAL .308 (Belgium):

     The pre-import ban models you can find used cost from $1800-$2500.
This was at one time the most common infantry rifle in the world, except
for AKs.  Many countries have used it worldwide & it has a reputation for
functioning everywhere from jungles to deserts, and everywhere in between.
Is also know for it's accuracy.  I like the FAL quite a lot.

     Springfield Armory imported some of these from Argentina, made under
license from Belgium.  I hear that they are actually superior to the
Belgium made semi-autos because although Belgium used machined receivers on
their full-auto versions, on the semi-auto they used forged receivers,
which don't last for as many hundreds of thousands of rounds.  These
Argentine models actually command a little less price.

     Some FAL's were imported from Israel, too.  However, I understand that
Armscorp, the company that imported many of them, sometimes used old or
worn parts in them.

     Currently, Springfield Armory is bringing them back in the country,
with thumbhole stocks, of course.  These probably sell for $1,000+.

     Century Arms also has some for about $700.  They are refinished parts
guns, but if they work well, what the heck?

     The FAL is known for it's fine balance and it's long-range punch due
to it's 21" barrel.  However, they are rather unwieldy if you try to fire
them out of a pickup window in a hurry.

     Most of the semi-auto FAL's with a synthetic forearm (including the
Belgium made) do not have a heat shield in the forearm.  If you pull-off a
few magazines rapidly, it becomes too hot to hold on to.  What I would do
is try and find some of the Israeli wooden forearms with stainless heat
shield and replace the plastic one.  Be careful, because the Israeli FN-
FALO squad support rifle also uses a wood one, but has a larger outside
diameter barrel & these will not fit your standard rifle, even though they
look the about the same.

     FAL magazines are 20 rd, and very cheap.  You can buy them out of
Shotgun News for around $20 for 10.  Get plenty!


Israeli Galil .308:

     These are supposed to be fine rifles, but like their .223 little
brother, magazines & parts are going to be high & hard to find.  They are
being imported by Action Arms, with thumbhole stocks.


M1 Garand Rifle 30-06:

     These WWII/Korean War relics used to cost $600+, because of their
rarity, as most were sold to countries like Korea, instead of the American
public, when the M14 replaced the M1.  However, several years ago a law was
passed to let these M1's & other old foreign infantry rifles be imported
into the US, form places like Korea.  Now, you can buy a used M1 for $300
or so.  Nicer & less used specimens are available for up around $400.

     Magazine capacity is limited to 8 rds, so the M1 lacks the firepower
of modern infantry rifles with 20 rd magazines.  But, for budget minded
survivalists with SKS's for their mid-range rifles, the M1 is the perfect
choice for a full size battle rifle at the longer ranges.

     Sometimes you can find the M1 with new barrels chambered for .308
(7.62 Nato).  These are the ones to grab, because 30-06 military ammo costs
at least twice as much as military .308 ammo.

     There are also some M1 Tanker Garands floating around out there.
These have shorter barrels for firing out of vehicles.

     Springfield Armory makes brand new M1 Garands & Tanker Carbines, but
they cost considerable more than the prices mentioned above.


FN-49 7.92 mm (Belgium):

     These rifles, produced in 1949, are chambered for the 8mm Mauser
round, actually a 7.92mm.  They are semi-auto with a 10 rd built-in
magazine that loads from standard Mauser stripper clips.  These are similar
in weight & length to the M1 Garand.  Owners I've talked to always rave
about their fine accuracy.  They cost around $300, and are usually
available form Century Arms.  I can't see much reason in having one, unless
you already stock 8mm ammo for Mauser rifles or a machinegun, like the
Vickers.


WWII Bolt Action Infantry Rifles:

     You would have to be pretty hard up to buy some of these for survival
use.  These include the 8mm Mauser, 303 British Enfield, the American 1903
Springfield, etc.  Israel & some other countries took the German 8mm Mauser
& fitted them with .308 barrels.  Occasionally you can find these for sale.

     Generally, these rifles cost about the same, or a little more than the
Chinese SKS, so there is no reason to have them for medium range use.  If
you absolutely could not cough up an extra $250 each to buy some old M1
Garands, I guess these bolt actions would be better than nothing for long
range.


BOLT ACTION SCOPED HUNTING RIFLES:

     If you already have some of these they can be used for long range
sniping, especially if they are chambered for flatter shooting calibers
than .308.  If you don't have any, just put scopes on your .308 battle
rifles for hunting & sniping. 

     Make a mental note of the following BAD example:

Two men on patrol & hunting outside the retreat area, both armed with
scoped bolt action hunting rifles in 30-06 & .308.  While stalking game
they are suddenly confronted by three parasites armed with Sears Roebuck
.22 automatic rifles.  Though they may drop one, or even two of them with
their first shots, bolt action hunting rifles are slow & impractical at
close range.  The chances of surviving even such a basic & simple
confrontation are remote.  The .22, while lacking in power, is deadly if
you are hit with enough of them.  Moral to this story:  Always have at
least 50% of your patrol armed with light assault rifles.  The remainder
should be armed with heavy assault rifles (.30 cal), or shotguns.  In this
manner, you can protect yourself as well as hunt for deer, elk, squirrel,
birds, etc.


TYPES OF ATTACK
     
     Mel Tappen, in his book "Survival Guns" (1976) lists the 4 most common
types of attacks to expect:

1) Exposed Attack - This will probably be the most common type of attack.
Looters and other rabble simply rush your position with little coordination
or accurate firing.  If you have chose and prepared your defensive position
well, and are SUITABLY ARMED, you should expect to defeat a force TEN or
more times your strength.  Your sentries or scouts should give ample
warning of the impending attack.

2) The Stealth Blitz - One of the most dangerous forms of attack to the
defenders.  The attacking force, which may be quite small, uses the cover
of darkness to sneak up and over-power your sentries.  Simultaneous entry
is made at several different points.  This type of attack may be
successfully defended against by alert sentries and adequate warning
systems.

3) Fire Blitz - This is probably the most dangerous form of attack to the
defenders.  The only viable response is frequently to escape your dwelling
via a hidden and hopefully secure means.  This type of attack occurs when a
usually superior force surrounds your retreat and simultaneously fire bombs
it, and hoses it with automatic weapons fire.  The only possible defense is
to have a clear field of fire in all directions to prevent the enemy from
approaching your position and/or remote controlled anti-personnel explosive
charges that may be detonated from inside the retreat.

4) Scouting Attack - A small advance party is sent ahead of the main body
of attackers to test the strength of the defenders  By exposing themselves
t your fire, they will attempt to determine the range and depth of your
defensive fire.  It your defenses are reasonably strong, a viable response
may be to respond only with deliberately ineffective fire (shotguns,
pistols, .22 rimfire, etc.) in an attempt to lure the main body into a
frontal assault.

     If your retreat location has enough members, some should stay outside
the compound at all times.  When you are attacked, they can snipe at the
attackers or attack their rear.

     ALWAYS have a pack loaded for each person, in case you group has to
take to the woods in the case of overwhelming attacking forces.  Most
survival food & gear should be buried in the woods in caches.


DRAW A LINE

     To shoot or not to shoot, that is the question!  As you watch a group
of strangers approach your retreat, an important decision must be made.
Militarily, you do not want to allow any strangers to approach and enter
your retreat.  To do so would compromise and weaken the effectiveness of
your defense.

     As the group approaches, you should have established a "dead line"
beyone which no one may approach without securing permission.  Anyone that
is so warned and refuses to heed your warning MUST BE treated as an enemy.


SPARE GUN PARTS

     For each gun you should have at least a spare extractor and extractor
spring.  Also a firing pin & firing pin spring should be purchased.  A
broken cartridge case extractor can make the difference between getting
your rifle back into action quickly, or having to trash it.

     It's good to have many more parts for your guns, especially those
which are inexpensive & easily obtainable, such as AR-15 (M16) parts, M14,
M1 Garand and Colt .45 auto parts. 

     For the AR-15, you should have a spare bolt, as the bolt will
eventually crack after many thousands of rounds are fired.  Spare triggers,
hammers, selectors, etc. should be stocked.  These parts don't usually wear
out, but they can break if they happen to have a fault in the steel.  Extra
springs are essential, as they can be easily broken or lost. A set of 3 gas
rings for the piston part of the bolt are needed, as these wear out
eventually.  Especially prone to breakage are the cotter key that retains
the firing pin.  Get plenty of these.  An extra magazine catch might not be
a bad idea.

     Don't even bother to get a military type assault rifle, unless you
purchase at least 10 magazines.  You may not be able to carry this many
loaded magazines, but you can sure use them in a defensive position.  Also,
you can use them for replacements when your others get bent or lost.


AMMUNITION

     My opinion of _minimum_ ammunition stocks would be 300 rds per pistol.
Each semi-automatic rifle should have at least 1,000 stored away for it.
If budget permits, get 5,000+ rds per rifle.

     Most of the ammo will probably be military ball ammo (full metal
jacket).  You might allow some expanding ammo for the pistols, like
Winchester's new Black Talon, but it is quite expensive.

     For the .308 rifles you will need some soft-point hunting ammo for
deer and such.  Expanding bullets against personnel are dramatically
effective, so if you can afford some for that, that's fine.  However, .30
caliber ball ammo is pretty effective against personnel, as that's what
wars are fought with.  It usually keyholes when it hits.

     The .223 round is so light that it is a real good idea to purchase as
much soft-point or hollow-point as you can.  Fill in with military ball
ammo.  According to Peter G. Kokalis, writer for Soldier of Fortune
magazine, the .223 (5.56mm) ball round will keyhole (turn sideways) when it
hits flesh, and break partially through at the bullet cannelure, out to 200
yds, when fired from a 20" barrel.  The break at the cannelure is a
desirable effect.  He claims that AR-15's with 10"-11.5" barrels will break
the cannelure out to only 100 yds.  I would presume the AR-15 carbines,
with 16.5" barrels would do this out to about 150 yds.

     With a 20" AR-15, past 200 yds the bullet might keyhole less
dramatically & only go straight through.  You might consider using
expanding bullets at ranges beyond 200 yards.  Of course, at longer ranges
it might not be as important to get an instant stop.

     Also remember, that at shorter ranges, somewhere between 0-75 yards,
that the bullets tend to go straight through, instead of tumbling after
they hit.  I think all this data applies to the M16A1 (AR-15 SP1) with the
1x12 twist.  Who knows about the performance of the newer A2 rifles?  I
wonder how they worked in Iraq.

     The only way to go with 7.62x39 ammo is Norinco Chinese ball.  This is
the cheapest ammo you can buy, except for .22 rimfire.  Stock it away by
the case.  They also came out with a steel jacketed soft-point.  I don't
know if it really expands, or not, due to it's steel jacket.  I have not
had the opportunity to shoot any game with it.  If it works, its a real
steal, at prices only about 40% over the price of ball.

     For .308 ammo, buy Chinese or European surplus by the case.  You
should be able to find it for $150/1k.  The only problem with 30-06 ammo is
that it is the most expensive of all these.  Your best bet is PMC, Samson,
or the Remington (yellow box) or the Winchester (white box) "generic" ball.
The PMC is more powerful & may bend the operating rod in an M1 Garand.

     When it comes to soft-point, the company selling it the cheapest is
Samson, by Israel Military Industries.  This is every bit as good as
Winchester or Remington hunting ammo.  Look for it, it's far cheaper.

     Buckshot ranges in size from #4 buck to #000 buck.  I prefer the
larger sizes, #0, #00, and #000.  It has more penetration because the
pellets are heavier.  It comes packed in 250 rd cases, and costs around
$175 per case, if you can find a good deal.  If you can find a place to
order it for yourself (I don't know if there are any), you might get it for
$110 per case. 

     Also, consider reloading buckshot.  Usually, only the larger gun
stores carry buchshot pellets in the 25 lb. bags.

     The so called "magnum" buckshot just has a few more pellets, making
the shot charge heavier.  But, it also moves at a slower velocity, meaning
less penetration.  I prefer the regular high velocity buckshot instead of
the magnum.  The magnum is considerably more expensive.

     Since 1986 individuals can now order ammo themselves, without a
license.  The companies that do sell to individuals usually require that
you send a photocopy of your drivers license, sign a statement that you are
older than 18 or 21, etc.


RELOADING

     At one time I kept a stock of reloading supplies at my retreat
location.  One day I started thinking about carrying the press, dies,
bullets, powder, etc., if I had to leave the retreat & head for the woods.
I scrapped the idea of survival reloading & started putting my money into
loaded ammunition.  Reloading is fine for _before_ a crisis starts.

     There is a new primer sealant product out.  Check the source section
for it.  You can put it around the bullets to seal them, too.


WEB CARRYING EQUIPMENT, MILITARY

     Get this from places that sell new military surplus.  Items include:

nylon pistol belt
carrying suspenders
canteen & cover
M16 magazine pouches (holds .308 mags, too)
pistol holster
first aid kit
pistol magazine pouch
ALICE pack
etc.


SOURCES

Southern Ohio Gun International
800-944-4867
ammo & military gun accessories, magazines

Century Arms
800-258-8879
ammo & military supplies

Navy Arms
800-669-NAVY
ammo & accessories

LL Baston
800-643-1564
many quality assault rifle & pistol accessories & parts

Shotgun News
advertising publication with everything that has anything to do with guns
402-463-4589

US Cavalry
military & survival equipment
800-333-5102

Brigade Quartermasters
800-338-4327
military & survival equipment

Phil-Chem Inc.
primer sealant for reloading
503-644-8532

Delta Press
books:  weapons manuals, survival manuals, military manuals
501-862-4772

MuzzleFlash
machineguns & silencers, night vision scopes
512-835-6102

kellymaureen

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Re: SHTF: SURVIVAL GUNS GUIDE
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2007, 10:48:22 AM »
Its frightening that it could someday come to this....thankfully my brother lives out in the sticks, he really hates neighbors lol....and he even has a gun vault AND knows how to use them, I know right where I would be heading ;)

Offline White Israelite

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Re: SHTF: SURVIVAL GUNS GUIDE
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2007, 11:00:32 AM »
Its frightening that it could someday come to this....thankfully my brother lives out in the sticks, he really hates neighbors lol....and he even has a gun vault AND knows how to use them, I know right where I would be heading ;)

I don't think anyone looks forward to a situation like this happening, guns are great and all but being in a situation like this would require some sort of survival. I am glad guides like this exist on the web. My dad had all kinds of books, anarchist cookbook (though it's old and obsolete) and other materials that were useful in times of a economic disaster or something like that. We also had loads of camo from different countries, Russian, German, Serbian, South African, American, and a few other designs. At least it's not a crime to write and spread information (I think).

kellymaureen

  • Guest
Re: SHTF: SURVIVAL GUNS GUIDE
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2007, 11:15:19 AM »
Quote
At least it's not a crime to write and spread information (I think).

Not yet anyhow :-\

Dave has all kinds of survival training from the military, plus its always been an interest of his so I would rely on him alot.

Offline White Israelite

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Re: SHTF: SURVIVAL GUNS GUIDE
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2007, 11:22:37 AM »
Quote
At least it's not a crime to write and spread information (I think).

Not yet anyhow :-\

Dave has all kinds of survival training from the military, plus its always been an interest of his so I would rely on him alot.

We are certainly going to need it. StørmFrønt and the Neo Nazis are promoting survival skills, they are also encouraging members to join the military and even have a self defense sub forum. These guys are prepared, we are not. Many of the Jews around the world tend to be in the city therefore they rely on security or the government/police to protect them. We all remember the Crown Heights riots and the LA riots. What a crucial need for guns at that time. We should not be sitting ducks.

Too many times, I have been told I don't need a gun and that I should put my faith into God, and God will handle it. While I am confident God will protest us, I am wondering how the Jews felt while they were being led to the gas chamber begging God to save them. I know it sounds cruel to put it that way, but I have constantly heard the phrase God helps those who help themselves. In many ways, I think that is part of the downside of freechoice is that humans can choose to murder other humans if they so desire and it is up to us to protect ourselves. Torah mentions defending yourself and others.

"If someone comes to kill you, kill them first"

kellymaureen

  • Guest
Re: SHTF: SURVIVAL GUNS GUIDE
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2007, 11:30:39 AM »
Quote
but I have constantly heard the phrase G-d helps those who help themselves

I believe this too.  We have free choice, we need to choose to survive by any means possible. 

I know that if I had to I could and WOULD kill someone who was a mortal threat to me or my family, Im not sure how I would feel afterwards, taking a life, but that wouldnt be on my mind at the time and my life and the lives of my family are far more important to me than the person who came to harm us.  I mostly have a gun to protect myself at home, but now that Dave is back home Im thinking of spending some time at his place, he owns 10 acres of wooded land, has his own practice range and is encouraging his friends and family to learn how to survive.

I hope it never gets to that point, but who knows, after the next attack, yes after, not "if", which may be nuclear, who knows what will be happening.

Offline White Israelite

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Re: SHTF: SURVIVAL GUNS GUIDE
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2007, 12:19:49 PM »
Despite what the article says, I still don't trust the AR15 (m16, m4). I've had way too many problems with them, and they are a pain in the donkey to field strip compared to the AK47's. While the AR15 was designed for the professionals in mind, it's a heck of a lot more accurate, and it accepts all kinds of fancy tacticool optics and accessories, the gun just isn't very reliable at all. I have had so many issues even cleaned that it's not even funny, and that's not even in a combat zone.

The gun seems to have issues extracting, the way the bolt is setup makes it difficult to get the round out of the dang gun compared to an AK where you just pull the charging handle back and it strips a fresh round off the mag. Not the AR15 though. I thought they fixed this stupid problem in Vietnam? Also it seems to be very sensitive to sand in particular.

While the AK47 certainly isn't anywhere near as accurate as a M16, the Soviets had it right. The gun was designed for the simple person to overthrow their government for the communist revolution. The gun was designed cheap (stamped receivers), and simple. The gun will keep firing if you throw it in mud, sand, water, etc.

While AK47's are nice, I wanted something with the AK47 design but with a bit more accuracy and quality control. AK47's are very rugged weapons but I wanted a improved AK.

I found the Galil, the Israeli clone of the AK47. Originally based off the Valment RK62, the Galil features a milled receiver which is basically milled from a block of steel rather than stamped and using rivets. As a result, the gun is heavier however it definitely helps with recoil, is virtually indestructable, and helps with the accuracy as the barrel isn't all wobbly. The galil is the cadillac of AK47's, I bought one in .223 with the 35 and 50 round magazines and this thing shoots like a dream. I really don't understand how Israel could have chosen the M16s and m4s over the Galil.

Unfortunately today it is very difficult to get a real "Israeli made" galil without shelling out a lot of money. They go for $2500 to $3000, a Galatz sniper version can cost up to $5000 or more. The reason for this is that they were banned for import around 1989. You used to be able to purchase them for $700 before the ban :(

Many people are going to gun shows, there is a Galil clone that is sold as the Century Golani. These are not "true" Galils, they are built on a American receiver by a company called Ohio Rapid Fire, and use an Israeli parts kit. Other parts that are american are the FCG and the barrel which is made by Green Mountain. They are non chrome lined. The guns are a hit or miss, I wouldn't recommend them. Century sells them for about $850.00 however I have heard many issues with them from slamfiring due to the freefloating firing pin (I heard Century recalled them recently), to not being headspaced correctly and ripping shells to peices. Apparently Century outsources it's work and just has workers slap together the rifle and refinish it without getting the pitting or rusting out of the metal. Real nice...

My galil, I spent a little bit more money.

I paid
$350.00 for the receiver
$250.00 for the parts kit
$109.00 for the barrel
$35.00 for the Tapco doublehook american made ak47 FCG (modified for galil)
$35.00 for a 35 round magazine (South African Steel)

and about $250.00 for the builder.

Overall I spent $1029.00 , not too bad. I can get magazines for about $20.00 or use a AR15 magazine adapter and use AR mags as well.

Ohio Rapid Fire is the only company I know of that makes the American receiver, it's pretty much identical in specifications.

The work the builder does is the following

Basic build includes:

Locate and drill gas port
Install barrel with breeching washer if necessary Headspace/chamber ream barrel if necessary Modify tapco double hook trigger to use original Galil spring As the rear stock assembly is aluminum, remove old paint and repaint with matt black Alumihide paint.
Disassemble/refinish stock folding parts/reassemble.
Choice of refinish either Parkerize or matt hot blue.  (Mine is matt hot blue, polished does not look right) Remove/replace gas piston if supplied.
Assemble weapon
Test fire


Overall I am confident this rifle will not fail me, and I am paying a little extra to get a personal quality control check.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2007, 12:23:13 PM by Cohen »

Offline HiWarp

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Re: SHTF: SURVIVAL GUNS GUIDE
« Reply #8 on: October 29, 2007, 12:41:23 PM »
Quote from: kellymaureen link=topic=10412.msg#msg date=
Quote
but I have constantly heard the phrase G-d helps those who help themselves

I believe this too.  We have free choice, we need to choose to survive by any means possible. 

I know that if I had to I could and WOULD kill someone who was a mortal threat to me or my family, Im not sure how I would feel afterwards, taking a life, but that wouldnt be on my mind at the time and my life and the lives of my family are far more important to me than the person who came to harm us.

It's better to be around afterwards to find out how you feel about it than to not be able to defend yourself and never get that chance at all.

Quote from: kellymaureen link=topic=10412.msg#msg date=
  I mostly have a gun to protect myself at home, but now that Dave is back home Im thinking of spending some time at his place, he owns 10 acres of wooded land, has his own practice range and is encouraging his friends and family to learn how to survive.

I hope it never gets to that point, but who knows, after the next attack, yes after, not "if", which may be nuclear, who knows what will be happening.
Spend as much time as you can at his place.  I've been thinking of getting some land in upstate NY for years and just never seem to get around to it.  There's always something more immediate coming up.  But if this does happen, there won't be anything more immediate than survival.
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny;
when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”
---Thomas Jefferson

Offline White Israelite

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Re: SHTF: SURVIVAL GUNS GUIDE
« Reply #9 on: October 29, 2007, 12:44:48 PM »
Quote from: kellymaureen link=topic=10412.msg#msg date=
Quote
but I have constantly heard the phrase G-d helps those who help themselves

I believe this too.  We have free choice, we need to choose to survive by any means possible. 

I know that if I had to I could and WOULD kill someone who was a mortal threat to me or my family, Im not sure how I would feel afterwards, taking a life, but that wouldnt be on my mind at the time and my life and the lives of my family are far more important to me than the person who came to harm us.

It's better to be around afterwards to find out how you feel about it than to not be able to defend yourself and never get that chance at all.

Quote from: kellymaureen link=topic=10412.msg#msg date=
  I mostly have a gun to protect myself at home, but now that Dave is back home Im thinking of spending some time at his place, he owns 10 acres of wooded land, has his own practice range and is encouraging his friends and family to learn how to survive.

I hope it never gets to that point, but who knows, after the next attack, yes after, not "if", which may be nuclear, who knows what will be happening.
Spend as much time as you can at his place.  I've been thinking of getting some land in upstate NY for years and just never seem to get around to it.  There's always something more immediate coming up.  But if this does happen, there won't be anything more immediate than survival.

New York has some really bad gun laws, you couldn't pay me to go there.

Found another article, this ones interesting. Talks about Martial Law which is very possible.

MARTIAL LAW SURVIVAL GUIDE



 
by J. Croft
March 9, 2006

This article will start off assuming that the Reader (you) is already subject to MARTIAL LAW; that is, the "suspension" of the Constitution. Curfews, rationing of basic goods, enforced relocations, confiscation of firearms and supplies, and summary arrest/execution by soldiers, paramilitary police and other jack booted chumps in black wielding assault rifles. Basic survival tips will be followed by more detailed ideals on how to counter this coup against the American People.


The remainder will apply IF you're reading this before MARTIAL LAW is imposed by the current corrupt government. IF you are reading this while you still nominally under Constitutional Law, it's urgent you read from the beginning to end so as to appreciate the opportunities you currently have to not only protect yourself and yours, but to attempt to stop a coup.


SECTION ONE: SURVIVING MARTIAL LAW


Rule #1


Never take the government's word at face value-except when they tell you that they'll kill you.


Government-it's components of career politicians, bureaucratic vermin, and SS ninja wannabes live, have lied. For a lot longer than you'd think. It's the very job; being part of an empire wrapped in the cloak of American political traditions of Freedom, that corrupts. All that power, attracting the most venal along with the most patriotic to defend America. All that license under ever mutable law written by money whores to lie, steal, embezzle, blackmail, extort, poison, torture, enslave, murder.


Is it any wonder then that such human scum would get together and work "the system" to set themselves up as kings, dispensing with the pretty coverings of Constitutional limitations that trip their crimes like a prom dress? Taking as much as they can, while keeping YOU ASLEEP AS YOU LET YOURSELF BE SEDUCED AND PUT ASLEEP BY THEIR FELLOW TRAVELLERS IN THE MEDIA AND CORPORATE BOARDS?


Yes: a lot of the blame can be laid on your shoulders, American. You dropped the ball with going along with not finding the truth about JFK's assassination. Dropped the ball with MLK, RFK, Malcolm X. Dropped the ball with Vietnam, the air trafficker's strike that Reagan crushed, Iran-Contra. Dropped the ball with the 92 election-picking that drug runner and murderer Bill Clinton because he was charming… like a pimp. And boy did he pimp you out at the expense of Randy Weaver and his family, the 81 casualties at Waco, the peoples of the former Yugoslavia. You were too busy following Micheal Jordan and watching Friends.


Then you [censored] really dropped it when George W. Bush STOLE the Presidency, with the media not even allowing a Ross Perot to run. If you would've elected him in 1992 in fact America could've been saved. BUT, you'd rather take government careerists at their word and plan your next outing to the mall than save your nation. Save your jobs, your freedoms, YOUR government.


Now it's gone. The criminals that've systematically taken over YOUR government they've removed the last vestiges of Constitutional law. Now it's law by the barrels of their assault rifles in your face-do ANYTHING other than obey in utter fear and you're dead. Or worse. You listened to their lies for over a century, you and your ancestors-where has it gotten you? Don't take their word on any "news" they have. Nor take their advice, their "assistance" their laws at face value because they manipulate everything they do to screw you.


What you can take their word on is, if you DON'T go along with them screwing you, they'll kill you for it.


Rule #2


KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT!


Do NOT tell anyone anything that could get you in trouble. Assume anything can get you in trouble, because it probably will. Especially with any government official, but anyone looking to gaining a favor with the state can and will snitch on you. The rat who would sell you out for his thirty pieces could be:


*A small businessman looking for an in with the state so he can make money a little easier.


*A former friend who's looking to get some revenge.


*Someone desperate for even some food. Times are tough and will get tougher.


Again, KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT!


Review the remaining rules of surviving MARTIAL LAW with Rule #2 ALWAYS in mind. Because some rat on two legs you say the wrong thing to WILL snitch to the "authorities" in exchange for favors or even brownie points… and then you get to find out how ironclad Rule #1 is.


KEEP YOUR BIG MOUTH SHUT!!


Rule #3


ANY AUTHORITY FIGURE IS THE ENEMY! Unless you are waging a war of liberation-gathering intelligence or spreading disinformation or infiltrating-have no relation with nor voluntary contact with any soldier, police officer, bureaucrat, or anyone in authority in private life cooperating with MARTIAL LAW. Review Rule #1: they're all liars, con artists, hustlers, thieves, murderers. Same goes to any fellow travellers in big business; they and government have been in the same bed for a century.


Stay away from them as much as possible. Tell them lies. Don't do any business with them. Unless they're sticking a gun in your face don't even acknowledge that they exist.


Shun them, their family and any sycophants that fawn over them for a few favors...



Rule #4


YOUR PERSONAL SURVIVAL IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN OBEYING ANY DICTATE! If you're prohibited from having an item that helps you survive, get the item, review Rule #2 AND KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT.


If you're prohibited from having extra food, medicine, guns (no brainer) then you will CACHE your prohibited items in a place where it won't easily be found. Foods, after properly sealed for storage, and medicines can be placed in hollow spaces in walls, floorboards, stairs, behind false walls in closets, or even in a hidden underground pantry dug underneath your foundation or basement.


Firearms are metallic; they can be detected by metal detectors unless you store them deep underground or in a place they won't think of looking right away… like sealed in wider metallic tubes, or away from your property. And if you by chance acquire or keep firearms knowing HOW TO USE THEM(sight alignment, trigger squeeze) and RELOADING AMMUNITION will be mandatory.


(IF YOU'VE NEVER USED A GUN BEFORE)


To use a gun, first find the PROPER AMMUNITION FOR IT. After loading, pointed end forward, the ammo into the magazine, cylinder, or chamber load the weapon. On semiautomatic pistols if the slide-that moving part on top-is locked back there's a small lever on the left side of the gun. Push on it and it will close. Otherwise you'll have to pull the slide back yourself.


Pistols are concealable, rifles and shotguns are for starting a fight. Shotguns you load from a port on the underside, behind the fore stock or it breaks open. Rifles come in several flavors; single shot, pump, bolt action, automatic, and feed from the chamber, a internal magazine or has a detaching magazine. The rifle you want first and foremost is a automatic rifle in a military common caliber. That coupled with proper marksmanship transforms you from a victim to a freedom fighter.


Here's the most important part: see what you're aiming at… put your FRONT SIGHT where you want the bullet to go… then WHILE YOUR FRONT SIGHT'S ON TARGET align your REAR SIGHT with your FRONT SIGHT. …When your FRONT SIGHT and REAR SIGHT aligned like this more or less:

O target
( ( I ))
IIIIII I GUN WITH FRONT AND REAR SIGHTS ALIGNED


…when you're aligned and aimed AT THE SAME TIME DO A SMOOTH, QUICK PRESS ON YOUR TRIGGER. The gun will go BOOM! and will push back in RECOIL. Don't be afraid; think of it like setting off a firework, only you're also sending a lead bullet at someone. If you did all the steps right you'll hit.


Dry firing a empty gun at a target is one way to practice. Even better is getting a air gun, paint some targets on a sheet of paper and going at it until you can aim and land every round in the black as fast as possible.)


Rule #5


While keeping the above rules in mind ALWAYS HELP OUT THOSE WHO ARE RESISTING! They, unlike you, have decided that there's nothing to lose and therefore deserve anyone's help who's willing to risk their lives. You think MARTIAL LAW is going away on it's own? Those bastards in black will have a sudden change of heart and do something worthwhile for a change and not oppress you? I like to dream too…


The VERY LEAST: have extra food, water for resistance fighters, basic medical supplies, ammo caches(hint, these should be concealed).


A secret room either built from some closet space or under the home can house a couple of fighting Patriots. Those who fight will need to keep hidden, yet able to communicate with fellow fighters. You can be a intermediary.


You have skills, like welding, machine tools, chemistry? You can take that secret room and make weapons, ammo, other things the resistance needs.


You have inside information? Share it. You have videography experience, tools? Make how-to videos on resisting the theft of your freedoms. You have medical training? Set up a underground hospital.


Not all Patriots can or should pick up a rifle and blow a traitor's head off. Riflemen need ammo, food, a place to rest, medical assistance, repairs for their weapons, intel on their next target. Most of all they and you need each other because a man alone doesn't stand a chance. Only by uniting in common cause with all one has to offer can the traitors be defeated, and Freedom restored to the land.


…If you're not at least giving aid to those helping to liberate you put this article down, go back to being a victim of government oppression; maybe you can get by being a pathetic lackey they'll thieve from and occasionally beat or take sex from.


Rule #6


With the utmost care develop a SURVIVAL NETWORK. This is a group of people with skills and/or resources who can help each other in areas they would be lacking on their own. It could be anything from extra food, medicine, repair parts, fuel, transportation-whatever.


In any given neighborhood you can have machinists(weapon makers), medical personel, drivers(good knowledge of local roads), gardeners(agriculture knowledgebase).


Petty bureaucrats secretly opposing martial law are prime candidates to spy, steal, or commit sabotage.


Computer technicians can hack government systems and create surveillance systems and guidence packages for missiles.


Construction workers can build secret rooms to hide anything from a arms cache to a secret factory. People in the media can smuggle cameras and work with computer techs to: bug enemy meetings, produce freedom media that documents sucessful means of resisting and present government atrocities for the reasons why.


Salesmen can "borrow" merchandise from their stores for use-anything and everything is useful.


Especially useful will be disgruntled cops and military who can provide everything from intel on raids to weapons to training.


Keep the numbers of your group "small": smaller cells are more difficult to penetrate by enemy agents and professional snitches. Keeping that in mind, a means of communication independent from wiretapped phones and audible eavesdropping devices must be developed amongst you.


Runners can be a athlete or a kid on a bike. They can carry small packages, or notes with a handy breakable vial of flammable liquid if discovered. With a sealed packet of potassium chlorate taped to it the gasoline(preferable) will automatically ignite; otherwise you'll have to actually light that incriminating evidence.


A mail drop can be a home, a hollowed out tree trunk, a hole in the ground, a open fence pole-anything. Just be sure it's discreetly out of sight of surveillance.


If God's really liking you, one of your group will be a SMART SURVIVALIST. This will be a exceedingly rare breed, because most in this group were smart enough to begin preparing for the collapse to begin with. They WEREN'T smart enough to avoid detection of their awareness and distrust of government. They signed form 4477 registration forms for their firearms, used credit cards and checks for their weapon and ammunition purchases, registered for weapons permits, or registered themselves with gun clubs and shooting organizations. These people more than likely got swept up in pre-dawn raids or got blasted resisting.


No the SMART SURVIVALIST prepared-and kept his mouth shut about those preps. He or she never signed federal permit forms for purchases or carry license. He or she presented a "average American" profile or totally disappeared. Get or find one in your group and you'll have a literal treasury of knowhow and resources to survive… maybe even start taking back a little?


Rule #7


AVOID GOVERNMENT MONITORING AND CONTROL! Know where the cameras are and how to avoid them. Know who patrols where, and what routine they follow so as to avoid contact. Know your snitches and always feed them b.s. if you can't avoid them.


Find ways around checkpoints. Side streets, forest paths, neighbor's yard, railroad tracks, tunnels; whatever go arounds to getting from point a to point b without a pack of government troops searching you, checking your ID. I can't and won't go into detail; how you find your ways is up to you.


Rule #8


AVOID A GOVERNMENT ROUNDUP. It could be from a disaster, a attack, or even because they've decided to end the pretense and show you what they really think of you and your "rights". You'll just wind up in a detention camp where your freedom of movement and resources will be strictly controlled. That means having a place to go away from your area, a means to get there, and supplies.


Very difficult to do in a martial law situation, with shortages and rationing at gunpoint. Remember the victims of Hurricane Katrina; how they were set up to be stranded in New Orleans by the government? How they were constantly baited with false hope of rescue for a week after the catastrophe? How they eventually were herded by FEMA into concentration camps?


You disregard Rule #1, you'll find out.


Get a safe house of your own-a friend or a abandoned home, a empty storefront or even a patch of woods. When the troops start going street to street, house to house have escape routes by lesser used streets, trails, whatever. You may have to go on foot, so have a light backpack with a few days worth of nonperishable food, portable water purifier, a first aid kit, a light sleeping bag-and your weapon. A mountain bike may be a more optimal and versatile escape mode than your road-dependent car. Better to be on the run, desperate-and have your freedom-than be imprisoned in a FEMA slave camp.


Rule #9


Find a way you can successfully resist. Probably not with guns or bombs unless you have the training, but there's plenty of ways you can monkeywrench the basic functioning of the state during MARTIAL LAW.


If you work for the state you have plenty of opportunities to mess things up, but even private firms are subcontracted by the government. You know who's just earning a paycheck, who's backing this war against the people, and who's getting off on "just following orders". If you can take action, great; concentrate most of your planning on getting away with the job. Otherwise, get contacts with Patriots and be the most reliable source of intelligence you can be.


Every bit of drag on the government beast helps-perhaps in botching that paperwork, breaking that surveillance camera in disguise, or misdirecting that bureaucrat or soldier cop that act might be the beginning of a butterfly effect of bringing down the state of MARTIAL LAW and restoring Freedom to our nation. Always keep that in mind. You must find your own way, but find it you must if you want what was stolen from you back.



SECTION 2: HOW DO YOU TAKE A NATION BACK THAT'S UNDER MARTIAL LAW?


To be honest it's probably the most difficult challenge anyone can face. Because you're starting a conflict from scratch inside the belly of the beast. You can't fight for territory when you've only got a few guns against divisions of enemy troops equipped with automatic weapons, armor, air support, the pitiful acquiescence of a "people" who long ago gave up Liberty for the trap of existence of a childlike, cushy debt slavery.


So the smart coup leaders that prosecute a martial law takeover will do it against a population that's already been pacified in one way or another. Now with the gilding stripped off their chains they're as frightened hostages willing to go along with ANYTHING massah state wants so long as they have some semblance of their former "lives". Aside from sickened, disgruntled vets, the American People; untrained in the military arts or even basic survival have been pacified-or the coup would never have taken place.


It is simply fear of loss after being so coddled, so divorced as a culture from personal responsibility -although enough exposure to fear and the human psyche has a way of becoming psychologically inured to it… which can lead to anger, and then revenge.


No: better way to pacify is to bring it on in a overwhelming torrent onto a population unprepared for it, unprepared for hardships. Take away their culture, their moral cores, their connections to God. Ply them with trinkets and baubles and other junk-get them to find solace in material things, in distractions like spectator sports, television. "Our" junk culture.


Keep them hypnotized by a junk culture while their means of sustenance-their jobs-are shipped overseas piecemeal, so they don't wake up.


Keep them hypnotized by a junk culture while their rights are legislated into impotence, irrelevance to the state's enforcers.


Keep them hypnotized by a junk culture, as even the know how of being able to survive outside the system; basics like growing food, repairing stuff, marksmanship is slowly stifled.


And all the time tell them they're free and prosperous. Eventually you'll have a people much like modern America's dumbed down materialistic debt slave. Such a people as ours, fed lies about our evil corrupt system as you find on TV are ready for a fall now as I write this. All that's needed is a plausable pretext, a cover story for the sheeple to accept the loss of their freedom in exchange for a impression of security in a land where the plenty of food and goods has been taken away.


Now some will see through the b.s.; but Humans can be stubbornly stupid when it comes to misdirected hope. These slaves, in every sense of the word, will actually defend the system that has enslaved them. Such is the enemy's genius at their social engineering. All those slavishly obeying the state in a martial law enviroment for some forlorn hope that their lives will somehow go back to the false paradise of the late 20th century will in effect be the enemy themselves.


You won't be alone. The enemy's genius is formidable, but not perfect. Quite frankly they're overconfident-and even if they weren't they're not God. They can't see all and will make fatal mistakes. The question will be, will you be man enough to exploit those mistakes to bring their downfall and save the Human Race?


How to beat the state when it has all the cards; can't take on an army with a pistol… but you can take on one of it's soldiers when you sneak up on him when they're not looking for it. If you're skilled with a rifle you can kill at distance and sneak off… if you have a supressor on your weapon you can do a whole lot of killing and not be detected. If you know chemistry, you can come up with all sorts of nasty stuff that can do damage to the enemy's expensive stuff.


If you have friends or fellow travellers you can do a lot more damage, even recruit if you have a video camera, editing system, and dvd duplicators(get someone skilled in video production) to advertise your victories and how others can duplicate your efforts, plus why they should fight in the first place.


If you're successful your area of operations will be overflowing with Patriots looking to bag as many jack booted thugs, bureaucrats and other traitors as they can get at. The excess Patriots can then spread out to other areas of our country, replicating as best they can what you've done.


With whole regions of the country infiltrated and secured secret industry can develop. Light weapons can be constructed at first, but eventually heavy weapons will be designed and made, and distributed. Ammunition, food, fuel, medicine-all can be manufactured on or made with basic machine tools and chemistry.


The time will come… if the enemy still clings to their forlorn hope of defeating the American People with the brainless thugs and sheeple that lick their boots… the time will come that OPEN WARFARE can begin and territory openly liberated.


After that… it'll probably devolve into a stalemate. The enemy isolated in their city/prison states unable to retake the surrounding countryside, but the Patriots not having enough strength to retake the cities. Or perhaps enough time because either the enemy develops some funky new superweapon, or their continued control of military assets overseas causes a outside power to intervene… on whose side… who knows?


BUT LET'S NOT LET THIS SCENARIO PLAY OUT!


Because a MARTIAL LAW will lead to CIVIL WAR… and national destruction… what I just described to you.


Let's NOT have a civil war, and spend the next century rebuilding. Much better to organize right now, as I write in October, 2005! We still have a political process we can use if we learn how to use it effectively. We can together find a small town and take it over-like the Libertarian's Free State Projects, only focused onto one town. Take that over, free it, and spread out from there. We as Americans need a standing example of what a Free State is; since we don't have the numbers to take over a state, we have to take over a town… so we can get the numbers to take over a state.


Even some in the traitorous elite don't want to see MARTIAL LAW because they recognize the exquisite control and enslavement the current American political system has over Americans, and want to keep their power. They can be used, then abused.


Individually, if you have guns, bury spares of your fighting arms, or sell them privately to new Patriot recruits. This will get easier as deteriorating conditions bring the reality of our situation home, and the government's conduct in New Orleans make personal preparation a priority.


Buy lots of ammo, food, medicine, reloading supplies. Get these at gun shows for CASH ONLY. Go to gun shows while they're still legal!


Find books on basic manufacturing processes-that's vital!


If you have EVER joined a gun group, bought guns and ammo with credit cards, checks, and/or signed registration forms and permits HIDE AND/OR SELL YOUR EXCESS GUNS TO MOTIVATED PATRIOTS! You WILL be searched first on "The Day", and if so much as a empty shell casing's found you can count on being starved, beaten and raped to death in a internment camp. Or maybe they'll take you anyway for being on record.


Start driving around: look for abandoned homes, businesses, and roads or trails that'll get you to them. Caves, forest haunts, old barns, the nastiest trailer in that tired old trailer park.


When you recruit, don't let them put their names on any forms that could implicate them in the eyes of the government. Keep their profile low-Patriots will need infiltrators, safe houses, spies… can't do that if you're still running around openly displaying a "I'm the NRA" sticker or a Gadsen Flag. Sorry.


Take your Recruits and:


*Toughen them up. Camping, survival courses, hand to hand combat courses. Even getting them to let their TV gather dust to do… anything will be of benefit. Demonstrations, projects, meetings, find places to hole up like anything without people around…


*Shooting, and lots of it! Paintball to teach tactics. A range of some sort for battle rifle practice. Airguns and required turning in of targets for their own practice-the airsoft guns are coming along as viable training tools and as soon as they perfect a paintball that'll cycle through them you should splurge a couple hundred bucks and get some guns and paintballs.


*Group buy ammo, parts, food, knowledge, a legal fiction to acquire property not under your own name, nor any connection to you. Have your stashes in several small units throughout the area you figure you're going to operate. The more the better, and, no one person should have knowledge of where all the caches are at. A cache should have ammo for the standard weapon/caliber your group should standardize on. I recommend a military pattern rifle in 7.62NATO, along with spare parts because they'll break down with all the shooting and abuse you're gonna heap on them. Enough ammo to refill all your carry mags for a mission. Also, nonperishable food. Should have lots of calories, carbs, protein. Medical supplies.


…No you're not going to get a lot of recruits. The enemy's cultural weapons are pretty damn powerful, and their mind control of Americans is exquisite-but not foolproof! On occasion a event will occur that will defy their spin control and b.s.-like the live coverage of Hurricane Katrina and their criminal abandonment of the Black Community to die in that open sewer so they'll abandon the city to foreclosers wanting a "Las Vegas on the Gulf". Point out the criminal abandonment of the government of their People. A lot of eyes were opened by that hurricane, and not all of them are going to shut again by the system's lies. Take your opportunities as they come.


I have a plan of peaceful political action that can be used, so here's a excerpt of my essay, "Message to Mr. and Mrs. America" at my blog freedomguide.blogspot.com:


Taking back the government-peacefully!


This is the preferable manner of us as groups reclaiming our Freedom. To be effective, one must have a understanding of America's political system as it relates to our cause. We have a president, a vice-president and their agents, a congress, a federal judicial system, and the duplication of this political layout among the states. Beyond that you have the many thousands of county and local governments. So what will work?


Take over the presidency?


It's long been proven that unless you have the blessings of the two official parties of this nation, you cannot seriously run for president. The closest independent candidate was Ross Perot back in 1992, and even being a billionaire didn't shield him from getting shredded by the media.


So, assuming the voting machines are honest(not)and the media's fair(not) you need the machine of a major party backing you(won't happen).


And the president can only do so much; America's system of government is extremely compartmentalized, so that unless you have a common ideology and party mechanism guiding and controlling the various components, it's impossible for one man to dictate policy. So a independent party president, one lone person against the rest of the hydra headed federal monstrosity is not only impossible, it's retarded even planning such a thing.


Congress?


Congress is made up of 540 members-100 senators and the rest in the house of representatives. All are elected in staggared election cycles so it would take approximately a decade of successful nationwide campaigning to create a majority party. Yes, congress writes the laws and taking it back is essential in our struggle, but even factoring out the two official parties and their political machines the structure of this body demands a massive political machine of our own.


Massive organizations that have a heirarchial structure have been penetrated, subverted and corrupted by our enemies since the beginning of time. It's a process that to them is a natural as breathing. Then there's all the fundraising that will be needed and we're not rich-the only ones with money in America are the same pack of vampires who've been sucking us dry. So a singular, national organization will not be sucessful.


Independent and rogue candidates however do have some success. Bernie Sanders of Vermont, Tom Tancredo of Colorado, Ron Paul of Texas, and at one time James Trafficant of Ohio sadly represent the successes. Most candidates are attorneys who've long ago prostituted themselves. They whore themselves to the political machine that will take them where they want to go. All they want is power and in exchange have legislated the monstrosity American government has become. The democrats and republicans, their bosses for all practical purposes appoint these elitists their congressional seats and they're prepared to spend whatever cash it takes to take or retain that seat. Vote fraud of course is part of their arsenal.


There are no rich left in these times who would willingly sacrifice their lives, their fortunes and their sacred honor-they're either sold out or scared. So any candidates for congress will have to be raised and funded by us. That means we have to do it in a grass roots manner. We have to build not one political machine, but a army of political machines that are independent of one another, yet cooperative.


Many small parties, one common agenda


This form of political resistance lends itself naturally to our groups. It will go like this:


The group helps other groups form. They in turn during the next local election cycle turn out and get the candidates they choose elected in town and county governments. Much of the oppressive laws plaguing us are drafted and enforced locally. Taking over local governments will not only give the freedom groups relief from local law enforcement harassment, it will give us the tools to revoke and repeal such things as:


Property taxes that allow the government to sieze that home you're working a lifetime to pay for if you miss one "rent" installment. Those in power whine that property taxes are for the schools and the children-isn't that what their gambling rackets known as the lotto are for? And they're willing to make you and yours homeless for the children… such evil makes me just want to shoot them. But let's try not to go there yet.


All those damned zoning restrictions, regulations, speed trap traffic laws designed to churn up "tax" revenue, laws criminalizing all sorts of things and actions that bother nobody. Think of any local ordinance that seems to have been drafted by a neurotic control freak… the list would be endless really!


Un-Constitutional, pro criminal gun control legislation. A big part of their program's disarming us so that we're helpless and have to rely on them exclusively for protection, establishing dependence. Not that the cops are legally obligated to your personal protection of course.


Anything that pledges cooperation with state and federal authorities, at least until we take our nation back!


Another book recommendation: HOW TO WIN A LOCAL ELECTION. Should be in your local bookstore.


When we take back a local government and bring that jurisdiction back into line with the classic tenants of American government, it will be a beacon of light, an example of successful peaceful resistance. It will immediately inspire and launch similar efforts in neighboring communities. Each composed of small, decentralized groups working together on the big problem, so that one day they can afford to bicker on the small stuff-that the Libertarians, Constitutionalists, Christian Patriots and Conservatives currently do. So together, with control of enough cities and townships, the combined efforts of those groups can take over counties. With control of enough counties, an entire state can be taken over by our groups.


Why take that next step? The list of things we can do when we take back our local governments is vast, but then there would be the call to centralize governmental control with state and federal authorities. So when this begins we must be as aggressive as possible-being examples to others, advising, and most importantly WE MUST NOT FIGHT AMONGST OURSELVES OVER STUFF WE CAN DEBATE AFTER WE RETAKE OUR LAND! Backbiting will be exploited by our enemies, it will be our biggest downfall.


And if we can take the nation back…


There are many things we must do immediately, as soon as we can take back control of America's destiny.


(1)Secure our borders from any further infiltration. Whatever that takes, whatever manpower's available, we must find a way to seal up thousands of miles of hinterland border, and many thousands of miles more of coastline. This will take bringing our troops and ships home, and in effect end America's era of being used as a tool of global empire. It will be good, as being number one just makes you the one everyone else wants to take out.


At the same time, a heightened state of alert must be maintained if another power were to take advantage of our transistional phase and attempt some economic or military adventure against our interests. America will be painfully contracting from it's global economic empire as we attempt to revive a self-sufficient free republic and the last thing we'll need is for Muslims seeking revenge against the Empire, or China rolling the dice on a military adventure against us.


(2)Impose a flexible series of tariffs so that no matter where on Earth a imported good is made, it's cost after going through customs is just a few percent more than one made in America-with all the taxes still imposed. This must be implemented by law for I'd calculate twenty years; because this is the minimum time required to rebuild America's manufacturing economy. The rest of the world's just going to have to learn to live economically without the American consumer, and the American consumer is going to have to learn basic economics. It will be a horrifically shocking adjustment, and lead to a economic collapse-of the megacorporations. It's the bitterest medicine, but America and Americans have become almost terminally sick with the current system imposed upon us and those that don't immediately take steps to save themselves will need some hard lessons quick to bring them back to reality.

Offline HiWarp

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Re: SHTF: SURVIVAL GUNS GUIDE
« Reply #10 on: October 29, 2007, 01:08:37 PM »
Quote from: Cohen link=topic=10412.msg#msg date=
Quote from: HiWarp link=topic=10412.msg#msg date=
Quote from: kellymaureen link=topic=10412.msg#msg date=
Quote
but I have constantly heard the phrase G-d helps those who help themselves

I believe this too.  We have free choice, we need to choose to survive by any means possible. 

I know that if I had to I could and WOULD kill someone who was a mortal threat to me or my family, Im not sure how I would feel afterwards, taking a life, but that wouldnt be on my mind at the time and my life and the lives of my family are far more important to me than the person who came to harm us.

It's better to be around afterwards to find out how you feel about it than to not be able to defend yourself and never get that chance at all.

Quote from: kellymaureen link=topic=10412.msg#msg date=
  I mostly have a gun to protect myself at home, but now that Dave is back home Im thinking of spending some time at his place, he owns 10 acres of wooded land, has his own practice range and is encouraging his friends and family to learn how to survive.

I hope it never gets to that point, but who knows, after the next attack, yes after, not "if", which may be nuclear, who knows what will be happening.
Spend as much time as you can at his place.  I've been thinking of getting some land in upstate NY for years and just never seem to get around to it.  There's always something more immediate coming up.  But if this does happen, there won't be anything more immediate than survival.

New York has some really bad gun laws, you couldn't pay me to go there.


New York City has bad gun laws.  Not that I'm saying that the rest of New York is like Texas, but at least you can go to a gun store and purchase a rifle.
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny;
when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”
---Thomas Jefferson

Offline White Israelite

  • Ultimate JTFer
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Re: SHTF: SURVIVAL GUNS GUIDE
« Reply #11 on: October 29, 2007, 01:26:59 PM »
Quote from: Cohen link=topic=10412.msg#msg date=
Quote from: HiWarp link=topic=10412.msg#msg date=
Quote from: kellymaureen link=topic=10412.msg#msg date=
Quote
but I have constantly heard the phrase G-d helps those who help themselves

I believe this too.  We have free choice, we need to choose to survive by any means possible. 

I know that if I had to I could and WOULD kill someone who was a mortal threat to me or my family, Im not sure how I would feel afterwards, taking a life, but that wouldnt be on my mind at the time and my life and the lives of my family are far more important to me than the person who came to harm us.

It's better to be around afterwards to find out how you feel about it than to not be able to defend yourself and never get that chance at all.

Quote from: kellymaureen link=topic=10412.msg#msg date=
  I mostly have a gun to protect myself at home, but now that Dave is back home Im thinking of spending some time at his place, he owns 10 acres of wooded land, has his own practice range and is encouraging his friends and family to learn how to survive.

I hope it never gets to that point, but who knows, after the next attack, yes after, not "if", which may be nuclear, who knows what will be happening.
Spend as much time as you can at his place.  I've been thinking of getting some land in upstate NY for years and just never seem to get around to it.  There's always something more immediate coming up.  But if this does happen, there won't be anything more immediate than survival.

New York has some really bad gun laws, you couldn't pay me to go there.


New York City has bad gun laws.  Not that I'm saying that the rest of New York is like Texas, but at least you can go to a gun store and purchase a rifle.

Are there any restrictions on certain guns? For example, some states ban guns due to cosmetic features. In California, if you have a rifle with the following features

Semi-automatic rifles able to accept detachable magazines and two or more of the following:
Large capacity ammunition magazines
Folding or telescoping stock
Conspicuous pistol grip
Bayonet mount
Flash suppressor, or threaded barrel designed to accommodate one
Grenade launcher

then it is banned.

Does New York have these same restrictions? This is a major reason I won't move back to Chicago, my Galil and AR15 would violate the laws there if the AWB passes there.

Offline HiWarp

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Re: SHTF: SURVIVAL GUNS GUIDE
« Reply #12 on: October 29, 2007, 01:38:06 PM »
Quote from: Cohen link=topic=10412.msg#msg date=
Quote from: HiWarp link=topic=10412.msg#msg date=
Quote from: Cohen link=topic=10412.msg#msg date=
Quote from: HiWarp link=topic=10412.msg#msg date=
Quote from: kellymaureen link=topic=10412.msg#msg date=
Quote
but I have constantly heard the phrase G-d helps those who help themselves

I believe this too.  We have free choice, we need to choose to survive by any means possible. 

I know that if I had to I could and WOULD kill someone who was a mortal threat to me or my family, Im not sure how I would feel afterwards, taking a life, but that wouldnt be on my mind at the time and my life and the lives of my family are far more important to me than the person who came to harm us.

It's better to be around afterwards to find out how you feel about it than to not be able to defend yourself and never get that chance at all.

Quote from: kellymaureen link=topic=10412.msg#msg date=
  I mostly have a gun to protect myself at home, but now that Dave is back home Im thinking of spending some time at his place, he owns 10 acres of wooded land, has his own practice range and is encouraging his friends and family to learn how to survive.

I hope it never gets to that point, but who knows, after the next attack, yes after, not "if", which may be nuclear, who knows what will be happening.
Spend as much time as you can at his place.  I've been thinking of getting some land in upstate NY for years and just never seem to get around to it.  There's always something more immediate coming up.  But if this does happen, there won't be anything more immediate than survival.

New York has some really bad gun laws, you couldn't pay me to go there.


New York City has bad gun laws.  Not that I'm saying that the rest of New York is like Texas, but at least you can go to a gun store and purchase a rifle.

Are there any restrictions on certain guns? For example, some states ban guns due to cosmetic features. In California, if you have a rifle with the following features

Semi-automatic rifles able to accept detachable magazines and two or more of the following:
Large capacity ammunition magazines
Folding or telescoping stock
Conspicuous pistol grip
Bayonet mount
Flash suppressor, or threaded barrel designed to accommodate one
Grenade launcher

then it is banned.

Does New York have these same restrictions? This is a major reason I won't move back to Chicago, my Galil and AR15 would violate the laws there if the AWB passes there.

You won't be happy in New York either.
http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/NYSL.pdf
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny;
when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”
---Thomas Jefferson

Offline White Israelite

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Re: SHTF: SURVIVAL GUNS GUIDE
« Reply #13 on: October 29, 2007, 01:43:05 PM »
Quote from: Cohen link=topic=10412.msg#msg date=
Quote from: HiWarp link=topic=10412.msg#msg date=
Quote from: Cohen link=topic=10412.msg#msg date=
Quote from: HiWarp link=topic=10412.msg#msg date=
Quote from: kellymaureen link=topic=10412.msg#msg date=
Quote
but I have constantly heard the phrase G-d helps those who help themselves

I believe this too.  We have free choice, we need to choose to survive by any means possible. 

I know that if I had to I could and WOULD kill someone who was a mortal threat to me or my family, Im not sure how I would feel afterwards, taking a life, but that wouldnt be on my mind at the time and my life and the lives of my family are far more important to me than the person who came to harm us.

It's better to be around afterwards to find out how you feel about it than to not be able to defend yourself and never get that chance at all.

Quote from: kellymaureen link=topic=10412.msg#msg date=
  I mostly have a gun to protect myself at home, but now that Dave is back home Im thinking of spending some time at his place, he owns 10 acres of wooded land, has his own practice range and is encouraging his friends and family to learn how to survive.

I hope it never gets to that point, but who knows, after the next attack, yes after, not "if", which may be nuclear, who knows what will be happening.
Spend as much time as you can at his place.  I've been thinking of getting some land in upstate NY for years and just never seem to get around to it.  There's always something more immediate coming up.  But if this does happen, there won't be anything more immediate than survival.

New York has some really bad gun laws, you couldn't pay me to go there.


New York City has bad gun laws.  Not that I'm saying that the rest of New York is like Texas, but at least you can go to a gun store and purchase a rifle.

Are there any restrictions on certain guns? For example, some states ban guns due to cosmetic features. In California, if you have a rifle with the following features

Semi-automatic rifles able to accept detachable magazines and two or more of the following:
Large capacity ammunition magazines
Folding or telescoping stock
Conspicuous pistol grip
Bayonet mount
Flash suppressor, or threaded barrel designed to accommodate one
Grenade launcher

then it is banned.

Does New York have these same restrictions? This is a major reason I won't move back to Chicago, my Galil and AR15 would violate the laws there if the AWB passes there.

You won't be happy in New York either.
http://www.nraila.org/statelawpdfs/NYSL.pdf

EWWW! Gun registration for pistols? I won't be visiting new york anytime in the future then.

Why do so many Jews insist on living in New York? Sounds like hell on earth.

Why is there a restriction on how many guns you can own?
« Last Edit: October 29, 2007, 01:45:53 PM by Cohen »

Offline White Israelite

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Re: SHTF: SURVIVAL GUNS GUIDE
« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2007, 04:51:20 PM »
Guys here is a great guide in how to survival an economic collapse. This is a guy who lived in Argentina and wrote how he survived it. Includes everything about obtaining water, where to go, guns you should have, etc.

http://www.birdflumanual.com/resources/Worst_Case_Scenarios/files/Civil%20Disorder%20During%20Argentina's%20Economic%20Collapse%20in%202001%2010Dec2006-1.pdf