Separate gender seating Mehadrin buses

[muman613]

According to the Gemara Avodah Zarah 20 which I quoted above it is clear that even inadvertantly viewing a woman may lead one to impure thoughts. It is always best for a man to walk with his gaze downward, but as it says, one cannot do this without bumping into things because he is not looking ahead.

Let me just conclude my thoughts by saying that although there may not be a halachic basis for this I do see the reasoning behind it. I do know from personal experience about how jealousy is created in a home and how difficult it is. In my previous marriage I was constantly accused of looking at, and talking to, all kinds of women who I encountered in my day-to-day business. I was completely innocent of these accusations yet I suffered immensely. I have come to the point of just avoiding all women at work {except those I must be involved with for work} and I do walk with my gaze to the ground. It is because of this marriage that I have learned that jealousy is a dangerous thing, especially in a marriage, and any fence which the Rabbis erected were for very good reasons. I fully understand the Pirkie Avos :

Mishnah 1:5

5. Yossei the son of Yochanan of Jerusalem would say: Let your home be wide open, and let the poor be members of your household. And do not engage in excessive conversation with a woman. This is said even regarding one's own wife--how much more so regarding the wife of another. Hence, the sages said: One who excessively converses with a woman causes evil to himself, neglects the study of Torah, and, in the end, inherits purgatory.

I don't know if you can comprehend what this Pirkie Avot means because I don't know if you have ever been married. But it speaks to me because of my experience.

I do not support enforcing these ideas on others who don't understand. I was not aware that this is the case. I do know that if the service was available in my area I would certainly make use of it. I will continue to learn what the issues are in this case so I can be more informed in the future.

PS: I never intended to argue that there was Halachic reason for this. I have just been commenting on why I think it is not a bad idea.

[judeanoncapta]

Regarding Haredi participation in the IDF:

The Nahal Haredi unit of the IDF was created in 1999 for Chareidim who want to serve their country while adhering to the highest religious standards. Currently, the battalion is about 70 percent Chareidi and 30 percent National Religious. Since its inception, more than 2,000 soldiers have gone through Nahal Haredi’s three-year program. There are about 700 soldiers in the battalion at any given time

http://www.nahalharedi.org/

Hesder yeshivot, which combine military service and Torah study, turn out 1,200 recruits each year—a 40 percent increase over the last 5 years (New York Times, 31 December 2007).

The IDF draws about 10 percent of its staff officers, 15 percent of its combat support officers and up to 40 percent of its combat officers from the National Religious sector.

http://www.ou.org/index.php/jewish_action/article/38157/

Yeshivot Hesder are part of the national religious sector. Some of them are more strict and extreme and are nicknamed Chardali (Charedi-Leumi), still they belong to the naitonal-religious sector. It is just like judea and KWRBT are saying- very few serve in the IDF, and most rabbis discourage their men from serving in the IDF, including yeshiva drop-out.

Very true, and it actually shows the greatness of Rabbi Shteinman that he stuck with his support of Nahal Haredi even AFTER his car was attacked.

[judeanoncapta]

I also support the idea that a sector of Jewish society should devote themselves entirely to study of Torah. I have given Tzadekkah to organizations which support poor Torah scholars in Israel, and I believe they support the Charedie also. The reason I find this acceptable is because our Torah established two classes, Levi'im and Kohan'im who were exempt from having to make a normal living and were dedicated to serving Hashem in the Mishkan, and in the Holy Temple. Today we do not have an established class of Levi'im nor Kohan'im in Israel and the closest thing we have is the Haredi studying Torah day and night.

True, but that sector cannot be as large as it is and not bring down the society.

Haredim are well over half a million strong and growing rapidly. The cities in Israel with the highest birthrates are Modiin Ilit and Beitar Ilit, both Haredi settlements. In another 20 years, the haredim will be a million and a half and in 50 years 3 0r 4 million.

Can a country of less than seven million people possibly support financially a group that large?

I think not.

[judeanoncapta]

How can a man go to work, or to any destination, using this transportation without coming to gaze unintentionally at a woman.

Forget about transportation.  There are women in the workplace too.   And get this, there are even women who dare to walk outside on the sidewalk!   Oh heavens, how will the men keep their pants on?!    The same way Jewish men have always done so (or at least the good Jewish men) - With SELF CONTROL.   

When G-d says not to eat pork, does that mean we have to go around massacring pigs wherever they might be?   Root out the hog from society?   No.  It means don't eat it, even if some goyim insist on packaging bacon and distributing in supermarkets.    You cannot root out the evil inclination from the world by "banning" it.  People need to resist temptation.

Well said.

Here, here.

[Spectator]

True, but that sector cannot be as large as it is and not bring down the society.

Haredim are well over half a million strong and growing rapidly. The cities in Israel with the highest birthrates are Modiin Ilit and Beitar Ilit, both Haredi settlements. In another 20 years, the haredim will be a million and a half and in 50 years 3 0r 4 million.

Can a country of less than seven million people possibly support financially a group that large?

I think not.

Haredim themselves understand it very well. That is why there was a sharp growth of working Haredi men in a few recent years. Besides, more and more Haredim strive to earn a degree in hi-tech professions or accounting. Personally I know that Jerusalem College of Technology, one of the most respectable Israeli hi-tech colleges, runs a special program for Haredi men ("Machon Naveh") and women ("Machon Daat", part of "Machon Tal").
http://jct.ac.il/eng/units.php?cat=62&in=0

Regarding the Army. Beside Nachal Haredi, some Haredi youth recently joined Israeli Air Forces and Israeli Naval Forces. You can read about Haredim in IAF here (in Hebrew):
http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/1,7340,L-3722196,00.html

If you don't take into account some fanatical extremists, Haredi people are very reasonalbe. They face reality as it is. Now when their numbers and political influence have grown dramatically, they will participate in all important spheres of Israeli society.