I need debating advice

[George]

I was debating a liberal who claims poverty increases crime. This is a common argument liberals make to excuse minority crime. I responded by saying minorities and Blacks in South Africa rape at high rates and rape has nothing to do with poverty. I also said women suffer from more poverty than men but commit 1/10th of the crime. Also, West Virginia is the poorest state but has low crime because it's relatively White. Can anyone give me more debating points?

[Rubystars]

Even rich people commit crimes so there's not a direct link. Look what Michael Vick was doing for example.

[briann]

You need to say that poverty increases the LIKELYHOOD of crime... BUT it is only one of MANY reasons.... and that Family upbringing is FAR more significant.

Sure, When people are unemployed they are more likely to turn to crime. as they believe they have less to lose.

BUT!!!! as a counterpoint.... give an example of the Vietnamese.  They came here to the states... as refugees... and had less money than the poorest blacks.  But because of their CULTURE of self-reliance, respect, and and their refusal to see themselves as victims... (Like Liberals tell Blacks to believe) they were statistically FAR less likely to commit a violent crime.  More significantly in a single generation they have become WEALTHIER and LESS VIOLENT than whites.

Don't touch the racial part of it (Even though we all KNOW that blacks are genetically predisposed to violence... its not something you bring up)

[Rubystars]

Most people aren't able to handle the racial arguments, but that really is at the core of it in many situations. Vietnamese have a better culture than blacks but they also have more innate intelligence as a group to develop that better culture.

[George]

You need to say that poverty increases the LIKELYHOOD of crime... BUT it is only one of MANY reasons.... and that Family upbringing is FAR more significant.

Sure, When people are unemployed they are more likely to turn to crime. as they believe they have less to lose.

BUT!!!! as a counterpoint.... give an example of the Vietnamese.  They came here to the states... as refugees... and had less money than the poorest blacks.  But because of their CULTURE of self-reliance, respect, and and their refusal to see themselves as victims... (Like Liberals tell Blacks to believe) they were statistically FAR less likely to commit a violent crime.  More significantly in a single generation they have become WEALTHIER and LESS VIOLENT than whites.

Don't touch the racial part of it (Even though we all KNOW that blacks are genetically predisposed to violence... its not something you bring up)

It may be true that the poor commit more crime but that doesn't necessarily mean that it causes them to turn to crime because they have less to lose or because they are in desperate need of money. It's very likely that the poor are more likely to behave this way because of their nature. I doubt that middle income or rich people would commit crime if they were put into poverty.

Hispanics are another example of people who are poorer than Blacks but commit less crime.

[briann]

I doubt that middle income or rich people would commit crime if they were put into poverty.

wealthier people WILL resort to crime if unemployment skyrockets... and they become poor.  It happens to EVERY race, EVERY group.... throughout history....  crime ALWAYS rises when unemployment goes up.

Don't try and deny this... or you will lose the argument.... simply say that YES it exists... BUT... that it is Not NEARLY as significant as culture and upbringing.  If you are brought up by parents who are thugs... and listen to music that glorifies thugs, and your friends are thugs.... chances are.... you will be a thug.

But if Joe Vietnamese grows up with two parents who teaches right from wrong... and is taught the importance of going to school.... they will NOT resort to violence no matter HOW poor they are. 

Its 90% upbringing 10% economic environment  (It might be 40% upbringing 40% race (Black/non-black) 10% econ... but dont bring that up as it will get you nowhere)

[George]

wealthier people WILL resort to crime if unemployment skyrockets... and they become poor.  It happens to EVERY race, EVERY group.... throughout history....  crime ALWAYS rises when unemployment goes up.

Don't try and deny this... or you will lose the argument.... simply say that YES it exists... BUT... that it is Not NEARLY as significant as culture and upbringing.  If you are brought up by parents who are thugs... and listen to music that glorifies thugs, and your friends are thugs.... chances are.... you will be a thug.

But if Joe Vietnamese grows up with two parents who teaches right from wrong... and is taught the importance of going to school.... they will NOT resort to violence no matter HOW poor they are. 

Its 90% upbringing 10% economic environment  (It might be 40% upbringing 40% race (Black/non-black) 10% econ... but dont bring that up as it will get you nowhere)

But what type of crime? Not rape or murder. Maybe petty crimes or white collar crimes. There are many poor nations in the world with lower rape rates than America. http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita. Even if wealthier people do resort to crime it would still be much lower than the minority rate.

[briann]

wealthier people WILL resort to crime if unemployment skyrockets... and they become poor.  It happens to EVERY race, EVERY group.... throughout history....  crime ALWAYS rises when unemployment goes up.

Don't try and deny this... or you will lose the argument.... simply say that YES it exists... BUT... that it is Not NEARLY as significant as culture and upbringing.  If you are brought up by parents who are thugs... and listen to music that glorifies thugs, and your friends are thugs.... chances are.... you will be a thug.

But if Joe Vietnamese grows up with two parents who teaches right from wrong... and is taught the importance of going to school.... they will NOT resort to violence no matter HOW poor they are. 

Its 90% upbringing 10% economic environment  (It might be 40% upbringing 40% race (Black/non-black) 10% econ... but dont bring that up as it will get you nowhere)

But what type of crime? Not rape or murder. Maybe petty crimes or white collar crimes. There are many poor nations in the world with lower rape rates than America. http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_percap-crime-rapes-per-capita. Even if wealthier people do resort to crime it would still be much lower than the minority rate.

Again, I said 10% economics....  I didnt say 90% economics.  If you want to debate this correctly... you have to say... YES... economics DOES have a SMALL contribution... but then you must prove its not the LARGEST contributor... and to do that... you have to compare oranges to oranges...  That is why the vietnamese comparison WORKS.

Dont start comparing different countries... because they can start bringin up other things (IE... stronger police state, unreported crimes... etc etc)... it will force you to start debating all these tangent arguments....

Compare groups WITHIN the USA.  trust me... it becomes a bulletproof argument... Focus on the vietnamese... since they came here with NO MONEY from a culture COMPLETELY different... not being able to speak the language.... (THese are all the lib arguments (money/language barrier/racism)  and then compare them to blacks....  then ask... how did the Vietnamese become statistaically less-violent and ultimately wealthier than whites when they came with a supposed FAR more dissadvantage upbringing?

[Ulli]

I would tell him, that poverty is normally the outcome of culture and personal behavior.

[GoIsraelGo!]

My advise is avoid speaking to them in the first place. For example my sister in law is a liberal Jew and she and I don't bring up topics about Islam or political happenings anymore. We used to get into these loud arguments, and decided some time back it was best to stick to family matters and happenings instead.
You cannot reason with a person who refuses to use their common sense.


                                                                     Shalom - Dox

[Confederate Kahanist]

Well poverty does end up at times increasing times namely people stealing food and clothes to survive.

[Confederate Kahanist]

My advise is avoid speaking to them in the first place. For example my sister in law is a liberal Jew and she and I don't bring up topics about Islam or political happenings anymore. We used to get into these loud arguments, and decided some time back it was best to stick to family matters and happenings instead.
You cannot reason with a person who refuses to use their common sense.


                                                                     Shalom - Dox

Yeah they pretty much end up losing the argument lol.

[CorrieDeservedIt]

it isn't hard debunking a liberal in race issue. All it takes is a link to crime statistics and income statistics and you're done. Also personal experience you might live in an area infested with them, the person you're arguing might be a life long resident of your lilly white neighborhood that has never in their life had to put up with brazilia.

[Gentile]

Can't really give advice but I do know that one of the hardest things to do is change someone's mind in an argument or debate.  Liberals don't deal well with facts and truth anyway.

[syyuge]

If poverty increases crime, then deficiency of poverty shall increase the righteousness. This is clearly a missing link.
  

[Secularbeliever]

I don't know if poverty per se increases crime but they go together.  Illegitimacy, single parents, school dropouts lead to both crime and poverty.  Perhaps the best argument is to argue against welfare, leniency and other liberal ideas that lead to both crime and poverty.