What has become of our public schools?

[nessuno]

Children can't be sheltered from society forever.
You have to be informed about and involved in their education.
Eventually they will have to hit the streets.
It is best to prepare them to deal with the garbage, kick the crap to the side and move forward on a moral path.

Sure, I think that is just what the Jewish tradition would show....hmmm....let, see...Did the Jewish people send their children to Rome to get educated? What does the Torah say about your beliefs?

Where does it say to keep your children locked away in a closet in any holy book?

It is sad that a "Jewish" moderator would have such a lack of respect for the Torah.

Why put Jewish in quotes?
You are either Jewish or you are not.
There are no quotes about it.
Stop trying to stir the pot.

I did ask a question.  Do you have an answer?

[muman613]

My understanding of Torah is that we should provide as much shelter from the evils of the society we live in to our children. Why would one who lives in the middle of depraved San Francisco send his son or daughter to the Sodom and Gamorrah of the public school system here? Our sages have said that it is better to live in a cave, in the middle of nowhere, rather than live in a city where depravity takes place. We must seek neighbors who are righteous.

I believe that we must shelter our children from the sickness which is spreading rampantly in this country. When you take your kids to a ballgame or other entertainment, they are bombarded with immorality. I am beginning to feel that America is a cultural infection, oozing puss and stinking up the world.

Do not feel good when you think that you cannot shield children {and adults} from the infected culture. Nobody is forcing you to have a television, are they? I haven't watched the TV in almost six months now.... I am thinking of selling my flat-screen tv because there is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING on TV I would like to watch. The sickness of society enters the household through the TV screen. Check the statistics, I have heard that an average 15 yo sees 1000s of murders , 100000s of sexual immorality, in an average week of viewing TV.

I do believe that we must be able to control our eyes, ears, and mouths.... This society does everything it can to make us see perversion, hear abomination, and speak lashon hara...

http://www.torah.org/learning/mlife/chapter6-1.html

"It is the inherent nature of man (lit., 'it is the way of a person's creation') to be drawn, both in his attitudes and deeds, after his friends and associates, and to act in the manner of the inhabitants of his country. Therefore, a person is obligated to befriend the righteous and to constantly be in the presence of the wise in order that he learn from their acts. He should [likewise] distance himself from the wicked who go in darkness in order that he not learn from their ways. This is as Solomon stated, '[One who] walks with the wise will become wise, and one who befriends fools will suffer harm' (Proverbs 13:20). It also states, 'Fortunate is the man who did not walk in the counsel of the wicked, [and in the way of sins he did not stand, and in the sessions of the scorners he did not sit]' (Psalms 1:1).

"So too if a person is in a country in which its practices are bad and its inhabitants do not walk in the upright path, he should move to a place in which its inhabitants are righteous and act properly. And if all the countries that he knows of and has heard of act improperly -- as in our times, or he is unable to travel to a country where its practices are good because of bands of soldiers or [his own] ill health, he should dwell alone, by himself, as it states, 'Let him sit in solitude and be silent' (Lamentations 3:28). And if [his country's inhabitants] are evil and sinful [so much so] that they do not allow him to live in the country unless he is involved with them and acts in their bad ways, he should go out to caves, brier patches and deserts and not accustom himself in sinful ways, in the manner that it states, 'Who would give me in the wilderness a guest lodge...' (Jeremiah 9:1).")
We are now beginning a new chapter of the Rambam. It deals with man's relationship with his surroundings and with interpersonal relationships in general.

The overall theme this week is the extent to which man is influenced by his environment and the consequent importance of living in a healthy one. We are all familiar with the enormous pressure exerted by one's neighborhood and society and the almost palpable pressure not to stand out. (I discussed this once before in Pirkei Avos 2:14).) People will go to enormous lengths to hide their Jewishness (or any other shortcoming) in an irreligious environment or to demonstrate it in a religious one. Although such pressures are basically superficial, they are very real -- and quite difficult to overcome. And so, advises the Rambam, we must make every effort to live in a positive environment and avoid the negative -- even to the extent of withdrawing from society and finding a comfortable cave in which to dwell unmolested.

[cjd]

muman, I agree with you 100% that children should be shielded however we also need to raise children that become adults that can deal in the real world. I have not watched a sitcom in 20 years and if TV was gone over night the only thing I would miss is Fox news and the old black and white movies made in the 30's and 40's. I am however the exception not the rule.... People live and die by what they see on TV.  So now tell me where the city is that I would be able to raise a child and not have him or her subjected to the sickness that infects society. Does a place like this exist? Children need to be in the mainstream but they need to be taught at home the difference between right and wrong. Informed moral young people are who may save society. Sheltered people unable to deal with things they have little understanding of would not even be able to save themselves.

[briann]

I deal with the California state curriculum quite a bit, and we were just sent notices, that k-12 cannot use the terms 'Dad' and 'Mom' in school, as it is offensive to non-traditional families.  I'm not joking.

[Rubystars]

I deal with the California state curriculum quite a bit, and we were just sent notices, that k-12 cannot use the terms 'Dad' and 'Mom' in school, as it is offensive to non-traditional families.  I'm not joking.

Is that just teachers that can't say it, or students too?

[Yochai]

Public Schools = Assimilation.

Always has, always will.  Whether Public schools are worse off now should make no difference to Jews.  A Jew should receive a Jewish education.  There is no other option.

[nessuno]

I deal with the California state curriculum quite a bit, and we were just sent notices, that k-12 cannot use the terms 'Dad' and 'Mom' in school, as it is offensive to non-traditional families.  I'm not joking.

That is disgusting.  I think it says more about society,in general, then it does about the schools.
 
Home school or public school, we better prepare our children for what is out there.  Pretending that there are no problems, will not make them go away.  Advocating for our children might be a better choice.
We can take a lesson out of the book of Michael Jackson.  We can retreat to Never Never Land.  Not expose ourselves to reality.  See where that takes us.  Didn't do him any good. 
Arming children with faith in God, morality and the smarts to keep safe will go a longer way in preparing them to deal with life.
The hard part to accept is that there are no guarantees...either way.

I am not Jewish.  I can have no opinion on obtaining a Jewish education.  I respect how you feel Muman and Yochai.  The choice is individual.
My child attends religious education in addition to her public schooling and home 'education'.
MomofSixBabies thinks home schooling is the only way to go.  It may be for her family.  That doesn't make it right for all.
Not every child that attends a public school will come out the 'devil', as she had once insinuated.

[HiWarp]

Not every child that attends a public school will come out the 'devil', as she had once insinuated.

Perhaps not but one thing's for sure.  It will depend on that child's parents.  If they take a hands off approach to their child's education and upbringing you can be sure that the child has a very good chance to come out the 'devil'.

[nessuno]

Not every child that attends a public school will come out the 'devil', as she had once insinuated.

Perhaps not but one thing's for sure.  It will depend on that child's parents.  If they take a hands off approach to their child's education and upbringing you can be sure that the child has a very good chance to come out the 'devil'.

Very true HiWarp.  Can't argue with that.  Same can be said for homeschooling.  If the parents don't instill good morals,  you can still end up with the devil.
I have an acquaintance who's children are homeschooled.  They are super bright kids.  Mean and selfish as can be though.