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ask Herrman about history/ Essen/Germany/Stock markets/ Solowjevs Antichrist
muman613:
--- Quote from: HerrmantheGerman on September 24, 2009, 01:42:39 PM ---@ mord
it will be in any greater university library i guess
@muman613
Thanks for your correction and the fine articles.
I will read more about jewish theology
I know that Jews don´t believe in the figure of the Antichrist
for he is mentioned in the gospel
But i found in the Jewish holy scriptures, which Jews and Christians
have in common, the figure of Gog the prince of Rosh Meschech and Tubal
He reminds me much ofthe gospel concept of the antichrist
As far as i remember it´s the prophet Ezechiel which warns the Jews
about him
--- End quote ---
Yes, The war of Gog and Magog will occur before the final redemption...
http://www.chabad.org/search/results.asp?searchword=Gog+and+Magog%2C+War+of&Globalsearch.x=0&Globalsearch.y=0
The following is a brief discussion of the Jewish belief regarding moshiach...
--- Quote ---
http://www.moshiach.com/content/view/93/
Moshiach Ben Yosef
Jewish tradition speaks of two redeemers, each one called Moshiach. Both are involved in ushering in the Messianic era. They are Moshiach ben Dovid and Moshiach ben Yosef. What is the difference between them?
The term Moshiach unqualified always refers to Moshiach ben David (Moshiach the descendant of David) of the tribe of Judah. He is the actual (final) redeemer who shall rule in the Messianic age. All that was said in our text relates to him.
Moshiach ben Yosef (Moshiach the descendant of Joseph) of the tribe of Ephraim (son of Joseph), is also referred to as Moshiach ben Ephrayim, Moshiach the descendant of Ephraim.[2] He will come first, before the final redeemer, and later will serve as his viceroy.[3]
The essential task of Moshiach ben Yosef is to act as precursor to Moshiach ben David: he will prepare the world for the coming of the final redeemer. Different sources attribute to him different functions, some even charging him with tasks traditionally associated with Moshiach ben David (such as the ingathering of the exiles, the rebuilding of the Bet Hamikdash, and so forth).[4]
The principal and final function ascribed to Moshiach ben Yosef is of political and military nature. He shall wage war against the forces of evil that oppress Israel. More specifically, he will do battle against Edom, the descendants of Esau.[5] Edom is the comprehensive designation of the enemies of Israel,[6] and it will be crushed through the progeny of Joseph. Thus it was prophesied of old, “The House of Jacob will be a fire and the House of Joseph a flame, and the House of Esau for stubble..” (Obadiah 1:18): “the progeny of Esau shall be delivered only into the hands of the progeny of Joseph.”[7]
This ultimate confrontation between Joseph and Esau is alluded already in the very birth of Joseph when his mother Rachel exclaimed, “G‑d has taken away my disgrace” (Genesis 30:23): with prophetic vision she foresaw that an “anointed savior” will descend from Joseph and that he will remove the disgrace of Israel.[8] In this context she called his name “Yosef, saying ‘Yosef Hashem — may G‑d add to me ben acher (lit., another son), i.e., ben acharono shel olam — one who will be at the end of the world’s time,’[9] from which it follows that ‘meshu’ach milchamah — one anointed for battle’ will descend from Joseph.”[10]
The immediate results of this war[11] will be disastrous: Moshiach ben Yosef will be killed. This is described in the prophecy of Zechariah, who says of this tragedy that “they shall mourn him as one mourns for an only child.” (Zechariah 12:10).[12] His death will be followed by a period of great calamities. These new tribulations shall be the final test for Israel, and shortly thereafter Moshiach ben David shall come, avenge his death, resurrect him, and inaugurate the Messianic era of everlasting peace and bliss.[13]
This, in brief, is the general perception of the “second Moshiach,” the descendant of Joseph through the tribe of Ephraim.
Quite significantly, R. Saadiah Gaon (one of the few to elaborate on the role of Moshiach ben Yosef) notes that this sequence is not definite but contingent! Moshiach ben Yosef will not have to appear before Moshiach ben David, nor will the activities attributed to him or his death have to occur. All depends on the spiritual condition of the Jewish people at the time the redemption is to take place:
The essential function of Moshiach ben Yosef is to prepare Israel for the final redemption, to put them into the proper condition in order to clear the way for Moshiach ben David to come. Of that ultimate redemption it is said, that if Israel repent (return to G‑d) they shall be redeemed immediately (even before the predetermined date for Moshiach’s coming). If they will not repent and thus become dependent on the final date, “the Holy One, blessed be He, will set up a ruler over them, whose decrees shall be as cruel as Haman’s, thus causing Israel to repent, and thereby bringing them back to the right path.”[14] In other words, if Israel shall return to G‑d on their own and make themselves worthy of the redemption, there is no need for the trials and tribulations associated with the above account of events related to Moshiach ben Yosef. Moshiach ben David will come directly and redeem us.[15]
Moreover, even if there be a need for the earlier appearance of Moshiach ben Yosef, the consequences need not be as severe as described. Our present prayers and meritorious actions can mitigate these. R. Isaac Luria (Ari-zal) notes that the descendant of Joseph, by being the precursor of the ultimate Moshiach, is in effect kissey David, the “seat” or “throne” of David, i.e., of Moshiach. Thus when praying in the daily Amidah, “speedily establish the throne of Your servant David,” one should consider that this refers to Moshiach ben Yosef and beseech G‑d that he should not die in the Messianic struggle.[16] As all prayers, this one, too, will have its effect.
It follows, then, that all the above is not an essential or unavoidable part of the Messianic redemption that we await. Indeed, it — (and the same may be said of the climactic war of Gog and Magog) — may occur (or may have occured already!) in modified fashion.[17] This may explain why Rambam does not mention anything about Moshiach ben Yosef. R. Saadiah Gaon[18] and R. Hai Gaon,[19] as well as a good number of commentators, do refer to him briefly or at length. In view of the divergent Midrashim and interpretations on this subject it is practically impossible to present a more definitive synopsis that would go far beyond the above. Thus it is wisest to cite and follow R. Chasdai Crescas who states that “no certain knowledge can be derived from the interpretations of the prophecies about Moshiach ben Yosef, nor from the statements about him by some of the Geonim;” there is no point, therefore, in elaborating on the subject.[20]
--- End quote ---
HerrmantheGerman:
Thanks Muman613,
for the interesting ressources
I wish you and all jtflers and their
families a peaceful and holy Yom Kippur!!!
muman613:
--- Quote from: HerrmantheGerman on September 24, 2009, 02:48:53 PM ---Thanks Muman613,
for the interesting ressources
I wish you and all jtflers and their
families a peaceful and holy Yom Kippur!!!
--- End quote ---
Thank you so much...
May we all merit a great year and the promised redemption.
muman613
The One and Only Mo:
--- Quote from: muman613 on September 24, 2009, 03:28:03 PM ---
--- Quote from: HerrmantheGerman on September 24, 2009, 02:48:53 PM ---Thanks Muman613,
for the interesting ressources
I wish you and all jtflers and their
families a peaceful and holy Yom Kippur!!!
--- End quote ---
Thank you so much...
May we all merit a great year and the promised redemption.
muman613
--- End quote ---
Amen.
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