Author Topic: Muslims in South-Western Serbia (Speech)  (Read 30563 times)

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Offline Serbian_Radical_Party

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Re: Muslims in South-Western Serbia (Speech)
« Reply #50 on: August 17, 2009, 11:15:11 AM »
If Seselj talked to them about their national origin, they wouldn't argue to him. Islam is international thing. The concept of a nation is not so important in Islam. They would tell him; yes we are Serbian Muslims and our way is right, and you are a Serbian kaffir (heretic) and your (Orthodox Christian) religion is wrong. So accept Islam and solve your problems, there'll be a righteous Islamic Republic of Serbia :)

Ok.
First of all you were the first person who welcomed me no this forum and I will try to understand your perspective. You should also try to understand my position and my side. If you would study Serbian history than you would be surprise about some facts. You will see that there was a period in which different religions (Judaism, Islam and Christianity) lived together in peace on the Balkans.
You had Muslims who identified them selves with Serbs and they respected the authority of the Serbian Orthodox Church and of the Serbian king. You will say now to me that these Muslims only respected the Serbian authority in good times, in peace. Thats partly correct! Some Muslims were also loyal to the kingdom of Serbia in bad times -  1914 and 1941.

You must also know that Serbian Muslims became hostile towards Serbs, when they decided to not identify them selves with Serbs anymore. So, you are not right when you claim Islam is always an international thing. The colonial empires from Western Europe who also occupied the territory of Bosnia and Herzegovina used indoctrinations during their rule to falsely convince (brainwash) the Serbian Muslim and Catholic population of Bosnia and Herzegovina that their ancestors are not Serbs. These colonial methods resulted into the alienation between Orthodox Serbs and Catholic and Muslim Serbs. Because of this colonial policy we have no longer one nation (Serbian) in Bosnia but 3 hostile nations.
Everybody knows that if you divide people and when two parties fight with each other, the third party will win! Thats why colonial powers (EU-nations) use colonial indoctrinations to cause divisions among Serbs in order to conquer them easily! 

Remember divide people  and than you can rule!
This colonial tactic is used against Serbs in Bosnia and Herzegovina by NATO-nations.

So the conclusion is that colonial indoctrination contributed to hostility of Bosnian Muslims towards Serbs. You should also pay attention to this fact. 

Offline Serbian_Radical_Party

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Re: Muslims in South-Western Serbia (Speech)
« Reply #51 on: August 17, 2009, 11:24:23 AM »

You can not deprive the Muslims of their rights their where they are born?
Muslims have no rights in Serbia or Montenegro.
Long live Vojvoda Pavle Djurishich

First of all it is not civilized to deprive people of their human rights and Serbs are accused of such activities by the West, but real Serbs know that Muslim are equal in right to Serbs in Serbia. To say that Muslims have no right in Serbia is first of all a flagrant lie it will only make the Hague Tribunal very happy and other Serbian enemies.

You did not learn Serbian history.
It is a fact that you had also Serbian Muslims who were loyal the kingdom of Serbia and the Serbian Orthodox Church.

Vojvoda Pavle Djurisic was Cetnik and you had a Cetnik brigade which consisted out of 5000 Muslim Cetniks.

Its time for some of you to get your hands on some historical books   :)
« Last Edit: August 18, 2009, 06:04:23 AM by Serbian_Radical_Party »

Offline voo-yo

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Re: Muslims in South-Western Serbia (Speech)
« Reply #52 on: August 17, 2009, 11:59:05 AM »
This SRP reminds me of that movie "Dead man" with Johny Depp and Gary Farmer. Farmer plays an Indian called Xebeche or "He Who Talks Loud, Saying Nothing" by fellow natives.




Offline voo-yo

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Re: Muslims in South-Western Serbia (Speech)
« Reply #53 on: August 17, 2009, 12:01:29 PM »
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First of all it is not civilized to deprive people of their human rights and Serbs are accused of such activities by the West, but real Serbs know that Muslim are equal in right to Serbs in Serbia.

God wiling, one day soon they'll be packing bags and move to Teheran. You can join your brothers there.

Offline Spectator

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Re: Muslims in South-Western Serbia (Speech)
« Reply #54 on: August 17, 2009, 12:09:33 PM »
SRS,

first off I am not against people who believe in Mohammed and Allah, (as long as they don't draw inspiration to harm my country from Islam or some other reasons). There are good and bad people in every society.

Secondly, I don't know who do you mean by "Serbian Muslims", be they Bosniaks or Muslims who live in Republic of Serbia or some other group. I don't know the history of their relationship with the Serbs.  So I am not telling you how to treat Muslims in Serbia, it is your internal affair.

But you cannot ignore the fact that contemporary ideology of Islam, exported from Saudi Arabia, Iran etc. is the aggressive one. It aims to impose itself on Europe, and, later, on the rest of the world. It is not a conspiracy theory, they speak about it openly and are proud of that. If you don't believe me, do some independent research and you will see. Also, you can check that Islam as ideology IS international, global thing. It rejects nationalism and strong national states advocating their own interests.

http://duaat.wordpress.com/2008/03/10/how-islam-will-dominate-the-world/

And I can't accept the argument that "extremist Islam was invented in Washington" or somewhere else in the West. The fact that the West tried to use them in Afghanistan and in Yugoslavia doesn't mean that they are Western puppets. As I said, they have their own worldview and far-reaching agenda. They as well used the West who gave them weapons and military training. Today they use these skills against the US and the West globally.

Time will come and they'll try to extend their influence on Balkans without the regard what Serbian Muslims think about that (and I am sure that at least some Bosnian Muslims will welcome them).



 
Do not put your trust in princes, nor in a son of man, in whom there is no help (Psalms 146:3)

Offline Serbian_Radical_Party

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Re: Muslims in South-Western Serbia (Speech)
« Reply #55 on: August 17, 2009, 01:20:30 PM »
Quote
First of all it is not civilized to deprive people of their human rights and Serbs are accused of such activities by the West, but real Serbs know that Muslim are equal in right to Serbs in Serbia.

G-d wiling, one day soon they'll be packing bags and move to Teheran. You can join your brothers there.

This is pro Serbian! Yea right! Can a Serb say something like this?
You want to send me in exile because of my opinion? Very clever\!
You have no arguments and no theory and your messages only content strange suggestions.   

Offline Serbian_Radical_Party

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Re: Muslims in South-Western Serbia (Speech)
« Reply #56 on: August 17, 2009, 01:43:53 PM »
SRS,
first off I am not against people who believe in Mohammed and Allah, (as long as they don't draw inspiration to harm my country from Islam or some other reasons). There are good and bad people in every society.

This sounds more realistic.
If people want to live according to the principles of Muhamed on their own territory - than you can not stop them. If people in your land want to follow Islam, than they must accept first the authority of the country.
If Muslims want to install Muslim laws or in cause other people want to install anti-Christian (secular) laws then they will be stopped by the authorities o that country. What counts for Muslims counts also for other people. Do not think that Serbs look inferior to other people. Our Church does not teach that.



Secondly, I don't know who do you mean by "Serbian Muslims", be they Bosniaks or Muslims who live in Republic of Serbia or some other group. I don't know the history of their relationship with the Serbs.  So I am not telling you how to treat Muslims in Serbia, it is your internal affair.


Look on the territory of Bosnia  and Herzegovina you have one kind of people - who speak one (Serbian) language. In my former messages I explained that Serbs were forced by colonial powers (Turkish Empire and Austro-Hungarian Empire) - during their occupation and colonial period on Serbian lands - to change their religion and to accept Islam and Roman Catholicism. In the beginning these converted Serbs were just called Catholic or Muslim Serbs. Later the authorities of the Austro-Hungarian Empire brainwashed Catholic Serbs and Muslim Serbs by convincing them they are not Serbian, but Croatian and Bosniak.
Croatians and Bosniaks speak Serbian language and they ancestors were Orthodox Serbs. It is not a coincidence that these people speak one language, share the same mentality and also have other things in common.



And I can't accept the argument that "extremist Islam was invented in Washington" or somewhere else in the West. The fact that the West tried to use them in Afghanistan and in Yugoslavia doesn't mean that they are Western puppets. As I said, they have their own worldview and far-reaching agenda. They as well used the West who gave them weapons and military training. Today they use these skills against the US and the West globally.

Time will come and they'll try to extend their influence on Balkans without the regard what Serbian Muslims think about that (and I am sure that at least some Bosnian Muslims will welcome them).
 

Thats a possible scenario.
The radical Muslims are used by Western forced and they are to blind to see that. Their religious fanaticism blinds them. There are many historical facts which can confirm that Western power use Islamic fanaticism to achieve their geopolitical goals. This is not my attempt to protect radical Muslims, but they gained a lot of support from the West. 

When EU and US give the green light, the radical Muslims will attempt to conquer Europe. You must know that their exists a driving force behind the danger of radical Islam.   

Offline sonja_yu

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Re: Muslims in South-Western Serbia (Speech)
« Reply #57 on: August 17, 2009, 03:22:18 PM »
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Oke we agree on this one. We both know that Muslim terrorism and Croatian terrorism are tolerated and allowed in Europe.
On other continents (outside Europe) Muslims are on their own territory. I can not understand that the US has the right to invade Muslim countries where they have nothing to search for. The American foreign policy is also contributing to the Muslim rage. 
But I can not agree that every body who is born as a Muslim is automatically a terrorist; that is racism.

One point - Islam is not a race.
You're born with your race and with your ethnicity, you are NOT born with religion, you get it with your education, from your parents, from society and that society isn't always healthy.
There are a few things wrong about Islam itself.
Do you see that people separate Muslims on "very Muslim" and "less Muslim"; moderate and non-moderate (extreme). It is true that in every religion you have fanatics, but think, i it normal than "less Islamic" ones are better ones?
In such cases, there must be something wrong with them, don't you agree?
Just pay attention of the lifestyle in those "very Islamic" countries. Nobody else wants that close.

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You can not compare the Western relationship with the Muslims to the Serbian relationship with them.
Are you claiming that Republic of Serbia is has the same policy towards the Muslims as the US has towards Iraq and Afghanistan?

I don't get the connection of this and the part of my post it was replying to, I was talking particularly about the Liberals, in sense of Ideology, no matter if they're in the West, Serbia or Russia.

My key point is not the US.
You're defending Muslim just because some of them are attacked by the US.
Well, yes they are, but for other reasons much more than for just being Muslims.

From my point of view, they should have just left the Sunni and Shia in Iraq do with themselves whatever they would, it wouldn't make terrorists stronger, but rather weaker.
But, what about the NATIVE Assyrians there?
You have no idea how many Christian Churches were destroyed in Iraq.
Who is there to support the Assyrians?
Nobody and yet they are being oppressed and nobody mentions that, everyone is just mourning the Muslims.
Lebanon was a similar story.

As for Afghanistan, did you know that even Russian marines are helping there?
They are against Talibans and have no choice but to help the West there, since Talibans have connections to even terrorism in Russia, Afghanistan is its neighbor, so, it is far more in danger than anyone of the West and Afghanistan is #1 drug importer into Russia.
Westerners are responsible for Afghanistan and now... they don't know what to do with them.

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I agree that we must cooperate with each other.
You mention a cooperation with Europeans, Jews and Serbs.
But you have also other people in this world next to Serbs and Jews.

And I mentioned. See:
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Serbs, Russians, Jews, Chinese, Hindus, Thai, Greeks, Armenians, indigenous Africans, Coptic Egyptians, Assyrians, Spaniards, English, French, Danes, Swedes, Dutch, EVERYONE who disagrees with Liberal policies is called either a "Nazi" or an Islamophobe.

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We in Serbia have Muslim neighbors and it is not responsible to mark them all as terrorists.

We have them as a product of oppression and conversion.
We don't say "All Muslims are TERRORISTS", as for connecting them with terrorism, well, we don't do that, they do it themselves.
Who is guilty for their religion approving rather than sanctioning that?
Me not.

We don't want to annihilate the Muslims, we want to save ourselves from their (extremely quick) expansion.
You need to understand that even those "moderate" Muslims are being murdered by terrorists, even more than others do.
Also understand that, among Arabs, you have some extremely, EXTREMELY rich and many extremly poor, who have lots of children, which they have no material possibilities to raise, they have poor education and too much religious connection while little self-consciousness, which makes them easily brainwashed and used by the rich "cream". You can't change them just like that. They don't live a life like you and me, they are too lost so it is hard to help them.

So, please, there is no point of defending Muslims here. Nobody wants a Holocaust for them, but we just don't want them too much in our lives and politics.

Offline sutomex

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Re: Muslims in South-Western Serbia (Speech)
« Reply #58 on: August 17, 2009, 07:03:02 PM »
While I believe that Vojvoda Seselj had good intentions he lost the touch with reality during last decade.Thats why Nikolic is much more popular today in Serbia

Offline sutomex

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Re: Muslims in South-Western Serbia (Speech)
« Reply #59 on: August 17, 2009, 07:09:30 PM »
Serbian_Radical_Party  forgets that ne third of serbian people and a quater of Serbian land is stolen by Muslims  >:(javascripjavascript:void(0);t:void(0);

Offline sutomex

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Re: Muslims in South-Western Serbia (Speech)
« Reply #60 on: August 17, 2009, 07:16:56 PM »
SRP you are really naive if you believe that Vojvoda Seselj will presude Muslims about anything.They already have their believes.They believe that they are originating from bogumils.

Offline Spectator

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Re: Muslims in South-Western Serbia (Speech)
« Reply #61 on: August 18, 2009, 03:18:28 AM »
SRS, take notice that JTF fights not only agaisnt Islamist ideology but also EU and some people in the US who promote EU-like globalist liberal-left ideology and lifestyle.
Do not put your trust in princes, nor in a son of man, in whom there is no help (Psalms 146:3)

Offline Serbian_Radical_Party

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Re: Muslims in South-Western Serbia (Speech)
« Reply #62 on: August 18, 2009, 05:54:52 AM »
While I believe that Vojvoda Seselj had good intentions he lost the touch with reality during last decade.Thats why Nikolic is much more popular today in Serbia

Haha..

This is very sad.
You are suggesting that Tomislav Nikolic is good for the Serbs only because the media of the current regime in Serbia, is making of him some kind of moderated hero?
You are talking about a man - Tomislav Nikolic - who is loved by the pro EU media, since he decided to leave (betray) the party (SRS) which educated and organized him?
Tomislav Nikolic is a fraud a traitor who was instructed to destroy the SRS, a party who was able to overthrown NATO installed regime of Boris Tadic?

I though that you guys did not agree which EU puppets?
If somebody in Serbia is an EU puppet than it is Tomislav Nikolic, the former replacer of Vojislav Seselj. He is a man who claims that Vojislav Seselj sends instructions from the Hague Tribunal to murder Nikolic? Does not this say enough about him?
« Last Edit: August 18, 2009, 06:25:22 AM by Serbian_Radical_Party »

Offline Serbian_Radical_Party

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Re: Muslims in South-Western Serbia (Speech)
« Reply #63 on: August 18, 2009, 06:02:16 AM »
One point - Islam is not a race.
You're born with your race and with your ethnicity, you are NOT born with religion, you get it with your education, from your parents, from society and that society isn't always healthy.
There are a few things wrong about Islam itself.

Of course I know this.....!
I never said that Islam is a race!
If I use the word racist than I am referring to people who condemn different oriented people.
If you discriminate people only because they are born of parents who stick to an certain religion, than that is an form of racism. 
« Last Edit: August 18, 2009, 06:25:42 AM by Serbian_Radical_Party »

Offline Serbian_Radical_Party

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Re: Muslims in South-Western Serbia (Speech)
« Reply #64 on: August 18, 2009, 06:11:32 AM »

My key point is not the US.
You're defending Muslim just because some of them are attacked by the US.
Well, yes they are, but for other reasons much more than for just being Muslims.

From my point of view, they should have just left the Sunni and Shia in Iraq do with themselves whatever they would, it wouldn't make terrorists stronger, but rather weaker.
But, what about the NATIVE Assyrians there?
You have no idea how many Christian Churches were destroyed in Iraq.
Who is there to support the Assyrians?
Nobody and yet they are being oppressed and nobody mentions that, everyone is just mourning the Muslims.
Lebanon was a similar story.

Muslims who live in Iraq and Afghanistan are on their own territory and the US is not permitted to conduct atrocities against people on their own territory.
If you do not agree that US troops are permitted to invade Serbian lands, than why do you have problems with Muslims who are fighting against the occupying forces on their own territory?
I really look forward to your answer on this question!


You have no idea how many Christian Churches were destroyed in Iraq.
Who is there to support the Assyrians?
Nobody and yet they are being oppressed and nobody mentions that, everyone is just mourning the Muslims.
Lebanon was a similar story.

You have no idea that the replacer of Saddam Hussein was a Christian.
You also have no idea that during the rule of Saddam Christian and Jewish communities existed in Iraq.
Many Christian churches were destroyed bu US troops during the invasion against Iraq.   
When US troops arrived in Iraq, terrorism started to increase!

Offline Serbian_Radical_Party

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Re: Muslims in South-Western Serbia (Speech)
« Reply #65 on: August 18, 2009, 06:19:42 AM »
SRS, take notice that JTF fights not only agaisnt Islamist ideology but also EU and some people in the US who promote EU-like globalist liberal-left ideology and lifestyle.

I hope so!

I am not pro Muslim, but who guarantees to me that my own religion will not be threated just like Islam here?
Religious hatred can result into hate against all people who do not follow your own religion.
I hope that you understand what I mean.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2009, 06:26:37 AM by Serbian_Radical_Party »

Offline Spectator

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Re: Muslims in South-Western Serbia (Speech)
« Reply #66 on: August 18, 2009, 06:36:12 AM »
You also have no idea that during the rule of Saddam Christian and Jewish communities existed in Iraq.

Jewish community was persecuted in Iraq during Hussein's rule and several decades before. Also, do you have an idea that Iraq participated in wars against Israel in 1948 and 1967, and in 1973 Iraq sent 18.000 soldiers and several hundred tanks to help Egypt and Syria destroy the Jewish state. In 1991 he fired scud missiles into densely populated regions of Israel despite that Israel didn't participate in US-led coalition against Iraq. All his life Hussein's objective was to destroy Israel.

Do you support Hussein's policy against Israel? Does Israel have the right to exist as Jewish state? 

Do not put your trust in princes, nor in a son of man, in whom there is no help (Psalms 146:3)

Offline Serbian_Radical_Party

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Re: Muslims in South-Western Serbia (Speech)
« Reply #67 on: August 18, 2009, 06:40:06 AM »
Jewish community was persecuted in Iraq during Hussein's rule and several decades before. Also, do you have an idea that Iraq participated in wars against Israel in 1948 and 1967, and in 1973 Iraq sent 18.000 soldiers and several hundred tanks to help Egypt and Syria destroy the Jewish state. In 1991 he fired scud missiles into densely populated regions of Israel despite that Israel didn't participate in US-led coalition against Iraq. All his life Hussein's objective was to destroy Israel.

Do you support Hussein's policy against Israel? Does Israel have the right to exist as Jewish state? 

I know that Jewish and Christians communities lived in Iraq during Saddam better than after Saddam.
I am not responsible for the policy of Iraq towards Israel and I do not know what Saddam's policy exactly was towards Israel is.

Offline Spectator

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Re: Muslims in South-Western Serbia (Speech)
« Reply #68 on: August 18, 2009, 06:44:39 AM »
His policy was as I desribed in the previous post. This is historical fact, you can check it out from neutral sources.

But you ignored my question. Does Israel have the right to exist as Jewish state?
Do not put your trust in princes, nor in a son of man, in whom there is no help (Psalms 146:3)

Offline voo-yo

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Re: Muslims in South-Western Serbia (Speech)
« Reply #69 on: August 18, 2009, 08:41:11 AM »
His policy was as I desribed in the previous post. This is historical fact, you can check it out from neutral sources.

But you ignored my question. Does Israel have the right to exist as Jewish state?

Good question Spectator. I smell a ban.

Offline Serbian_Radical_Party

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Re: Muslims in South-Western Serbia (Speech)
« Reply #70 on: August 18, 2009, 09:31:50 AM »
But you ignored my question. Does Israel have the right to exist as Jewish state?

Well this sounds like questioning (interrogating) me? This reminds me on militant HDZ- representatives who asked to Serbs question like: "do you recognize independent Croatia"  >:( ?. Not that I am now comparing Croatia to Israel, but you remind me to them (  : :::D: ).
You do not have to worry; I am not your enemy and I did not came here to attack what is valuable to you.

To be honest Israel is not a subject which has my highest priority - as a Serb I can say that Russian and Serbian subjects have my priority.
To answer your question, well Israel exists and that is a fact. I have no problems with the existence of a Jewish state in the Middle East.
This does not mean that I authomatically unconditionally support Israel in every way.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2009, 09:48:04 AM by Serbian_Radical_Party »

Offline voo-yo

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Re: Muslims in South-Western Serbia (Speech)
« Reply #71 on: August 18, 2009, 09:59:05 AM »
But you ignored my question. Does Israel have the right to exist as Jewish state?

Well this sounds like questioning (interrogating) me? This reminds me on militant HDZ- representatives who asked to Serbs question like: "do you recognize independent Croatia"  >:( ?. Not that I am now comparing Croatia to Israel, but you remind me to them (  : :::D: ).
You do not have to worry; I am not your enemy and I did not came here to attack what is valuable to you.

To be honest Israel is not a subject which has my highest priority - as a Serb I can say that Russian and Serbian subjects have my priority.
To answer your question, well Israel exists and that is a fact. I have no problems with the existence of a Jewish state in the Middle East.
This does not mean that I authomatically unconditionally support Israel in every way.

Do you think Arabs in Israel should have the same political rights as Jews? This is very connected to our situation.

Offline Spectator

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Re: Muslims in South-Western Serbia (Speech)
« Reply #72 on: August 18, 2009, 10:06:32 AM »
To answer your question, well Israel exists and that is a fact. I have no problems with the existence of a Jewish state in the Middle East.
This does not mean that I authomatically unconditionally support Israel in every way.

Well, this is great. I don't expect from you to support Israel in every issue. For me, it is already good that you are not against the existence of my country. From my side, I understand that Serbia is your highest priority. It should be so because you are a Serb. Also, I don't have anything against Serbian-Russian brotherhood. Живела Србиja, слава России!
Do not put your trust in princes, nor in a son of man, in whom there is no help (Psalms 146:3)

Offline Serbian_Radical_Party

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Re: Muslims in South-Western Serbia (Speech)
« Reply #73 on: August 18, 2009, 10:20:11 AM »
Also, I don't have anything against Serbian-Russian brotherhood. Живела Србиja, слава России!

;D  ;D Thanks!

To bad so called "Serb" voo-yo is not that optimistic about the Serbian-Russian brotherhood!
He only complains against Russia... What Serbs will do something like that...?

Offline voo-yo

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Re: Muslims in South-Western Serbia (Speech)
« Reply #74 on: August 18, 2009, 10:22:02 AM »
Can you answer the question?