Need help explaining these verses

[AsheDina]

The bottom line is that the insane, self-hating Jews of today are in the trouble that they are in because they refuse to obey G-d's commandments regarding Amalek.

They are the Erav Rav

[muman613]

Yes, this is the crux of many debates... It is ALWAYS IMPORTANT to understand the Hebrew first because english {or greek} translations are not precise. Hebrew is a very complex language and it is very difficult to accurately translate it into english, especially Biblical Hebrew because the words have multiple, layered meanings.

I find that the Artscroll Tanakh is the translation I usually stick to. I also use the Mechone-Mamre site online {which is a version of the JPS tanakh}. I also use the Chabad website I linked to above...

My rabbi understands that artscroll Chumash took some of it's translation directly from the JPS version which got theirs directly from a nonJewish source (I believe he said the king james version if I remember correctly)...

Granted, a lot about artscroll is good.   But just something to keep in mind.  I was rather surprised to hear that.

Just throwing that in there.

KWRBT,

I have searched the web for any evidence of what you say about Artscroll Chumash is true. I cannot find any mention of this idea that Artscroll translation is derived from King James... On just about every page I found the Rabbis lauded Artscroll translation versus the King James mistranslation.



Here is a comparison between Artscroll Prophets {Isaiah} versus KJV.

http://www.messiahtruth.com/isai53b.html

Here is a quote from this same site:

http://www.messiahtruth.com/response.html

When countering Christian Missionaries it is important to always base one's arguments on actual Scripture – the original Hebrew text (public domain applications and software are available if your browser is not Hebrew-enabled). Remember that the English translation of the Tanach (which they call the “Tanach”) in nearly every Christian Bible is taken from the Septuagint, one of many Greek translations that differed considerably from the Masoretic text. It is this Greek Septuagint, not the original Hebrew, that was the main basis for the Old Latin, Coptic, Ethiopic, Armenian, Georgian, Slavonic, and part of the Arabic translations of the Tanach.

Even the earliest English translation of the JPS Tanach (Jewish Publication Society) was a slightly modified version of the Tanach found in the King James Bible, instead of a direct translation of the original Hebrew which accompanied it. Christian Missionaries will almost always use the English translation of the JPS Tanach as a "proof text." Far more accurate English translations of the Masoretic text are found in Koren's The Jerusalem Bible and Artscroll's Stone Edition Tanach.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Yes, this is the crux of many debates... It is ALWAYS IMPORTANT to understand the Hebrew first because english {or greek} translations are not precise. Hebrew is a very complex language and it is very difficult to accurately translate it into english, especially Biblical Hebrew because the words have multiple, layered meanings.

I find that the Artscroll Tanakh is the translation I usually stick to. I also use the Mechone-Mamre site online {which is a version of the JPS tanakh}. I also use the Chabad website I linked to above...

My rabbi understands that artscroll Chumash took some of it's translation directly from the JPS version which got theirs directly from a nonJewish source (I believe he said the king james version if I remember correctly)...

Granted, a lot about artscroll is good.   But just something to keep in mind.  I was rather surprised to hear that.

Just throwing that in there.

KWRBT,

I have searched the web for any evidence of what you say about Artscroll Chumash is true. I cannot find any mention of this idea that Artscroll translation is derived from King James... On just about every page I found the Rabbis lauded Artscroll translation versus the King James mistranslation.



Here is a comparison between Artscroll Prophets {Isaiah} versus KJV.

http://www.messiahtruth.com/isai53b.html

Here is a quote from this same site:

http://www.messiahtruth.com/response.html

When countering Christian Missionaries it is important to always base one's arguments on actual Scripture – the original Hebrew text (public domain applications and software are available if your browser is not Hebrew-enabled). Remember that the English translation of the Tanach (which they call the “Tanach ”) in nearly every Christian Bible is taken from the Septuagint, one of many Greek translations that differed considerably from the Masoretic text. It is this Greek Septuagint, not the original Hebrew, that was the main basis for the Old Latin, Coptic, Ethiopic, Armenian, Georgian, Slavonic, and part of the Arabic translations of The Tanach.

Even the earliest English translation of the JPS Tanach (Jewish Publication Society) was a slightly modified version of The Tanach found in the King James Bible, instead of a direct translation of the original Hebrew which accompanied it. Christian Missionaries will almost always use the English translation of the JPS Tanach as a "proof text." Far more accurate English translations of the Masoretic text are found in Koren's The Jerusalem Bible and Artscroll's Stone Edition Tanach.

I was speaking about Chumash, so Isaiah would not be relevant to that.   But either way, whether you've seen it or not, my rabbi knows Chumash like the back of his hand (literally), and he showed us a few minor examples and really believes this.   He is not making websites about minor problems with artscroll, he is busy repeating shas and giving shiurim, and being posek halacha for many many people who rely on him.   Far more important things.   It's a minor issue.   Just a point that one should know to take any translation with a grain of salt and that includes so-called "jewish" translations, like the JPS or even the "kosher" one like Artscroll.   A translation is still a translation.  Much room for error.

[muman613]

<snip>
I was speaking about Chumash, so Isaiah would not be relevant to that.   But either way, whether you've seen it or not, my rabbi knows Chumash like the back of his hand (literally), and he showed us a few minor examples and really believes this.   He is not making websites about minor problems with artscroll, he is busy repeating shas and giving shiurim, and being posek halacha for many many people who rely on him.   Far more important things.   It's a minor issue.   Just a point that one should know to take any translation with a grain of salt and that includes so-called "jewish" translations, like the JPS or even the "kosher" one like Artscroll.   A translation is still a translation.  Much room for error.

Very true. This is why I said it was essential for a true religious Jew to learn Hebrew and investigate the words themselves. Since my Teshuva about seven years ago I have learned a lot of hebrew just from the davening and Torah readings I have attended. I have not taken formal Hebrew lessons but I have a pretty good vocabulary. I still don't know much about grammar though.

PS: I was not implying that I knew more than your Rabbi. I am sure that your Rabbi is a talmid chocham and you are a prime example of his wisdom in practice.