Being Gay

[Zelhar]

My orthodox friend told me about how girl on girl was not written against exactly. Am I allowed to say thats hot?

Girl on girl is disgusting. If you truly think it's hot you have clearly been brainwashed by our culture.

True, it is all sick... When sex is used like this it makes Hashem disgusted at mankind. While Hashem wanted sexual relations to be pleasurable, it was so that we would not become extinct. But the pleasure of sex is being used for simple pleasure, and this is the abomination.

OK, now that Tron has been exposed, ahem, 'outted', I'd like to ask a question.

From Muman's quote above, it seems that we shouldn't have sex for simple pleasure. Rather, the act of having sex seems to be one that should be undertaken mainly for the purpose of procreation.

Now, I've got to tell you, this seems pretty strange to me. Does this mean a man and wife should refrain from having sex unless they're trying to have children ?

I'm of the opinion that sex is healthy and important for a good, lasting, loving relationship between a man and woman - even when they're not trying to build a family or have children.

In the framework of marriage I see absolutely nothing wrong with having sex for pleasure. What better way to express love for each other than to provide each other with sexual pleasure ?

Also this whole idea about not using a condom because it 'wastes' male seed seems crazy to me. Condoms are not OK, but birth control pills are ? Sorry, I just can't accept this stuff. I think if a married couple wants to have sex and not have children as a result, the use of condoms is appropriate. What if the woman doesn't want to take birth control pills because of potential health risks ? Should the couple abstain from having sex rather than use condoms ? Should they only have sex for the purpose of having kids ?

Maybe I'm perverted but I think having a healthy, enjoyable sex life is important to a couple, even if they're not trying to have children.

In practice Judaism allows use of birth control and to my knowledge this may includes condoms. But the decision is particular and not general. A couple ask their Rabbi for a permission and explain him their reasoning. The Rabbi gives them the proper guidance and in most case, a "heter", a permission to use contraceptions. A heter is essentially a permission to violate a mizvah   due to particular circumstances.

[Spectator]

MDF, you don't have to worry.

According to Judaism, sex is not only for procreation. Jewish faith states that intimate relationship between husband and wife is very important.

Moreover, when a man marries a woman, he is obliged to provide her food, clothing and sex. This is written in every ketubah - Jewish marriage contract.

[Moshe92]

I remember tron from the Hebrew forum. I was convinced that this guy is someone else since his posts covered issues other than homosexuality. I guess I was wrong.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

MDF, you don't have to worry.

According to Judaism, sex is not only for procreation. Jewish faith states that intimate relationship between husband and wife is very important.

Moreover, when a man marries a woman, he is obliged to provide her food, clothing and sex. This is written in every ketubah - Jewish marriage contract.

I would agree with this all (and actually, the Christian Bible also specifically states that both husband and wife are supposed to provide the other with sex), but I'm coming from a Christian perspective here and we don't (universally) believe that there is a requirement to procreate (some of us do, but not all).

[The One and Only Mo]

My orthodox friend told me about how girl on girl was not written against exactly. Am I allowed to say thats hot?

Girl on girl is disgusting. If you truly think it's hot you have clearly been brainwashed by our culture.

True, it is all sick... When sex is used like this it makes Hashem disgusted at mankind. While Hashem wanted sexual relations to be pleasurable, it was so that we would not become extinct. But the pleasure of sex is being used for simple pleasure, and this is the abomination.

OK, now that Tron has been exposed, ahem, 'outted', I'd like to ask a question.

From Muman's quote above, it seems that we shouldn't have sex for simple pleasure. Rather, the act of having sex seems to be one that should be undertaken mainly for the purpose of procreation.

Now, I've got to tell you, this seems pretty strange to me. Does this mean a man and wife should refrain from having sex unless they're trying to have children ?

I'm of the opinion that sex is healthy and important for a good, lasting, loving relationship between a man and woman - even when they're not trying to build a family or have children.

In the framework of marriage I see absolutely nothing wrong with having sex for pleasure. What better way to express love for each other than to provide each other with sexual pleasure ?

Also this whole idea about not using a condom because it 'wastes' male seed seems crazy to me. Condoms are not OK, but birth control pills are ? Sorry, I just can't accept this stuff. I think if a married couple wants to have sex and not have children as a result, the use of condoms is appropriate. What if the woman doesn't want to take birth control pills because of potential health risks ? Should the couple abstain from having sex rather than use condoms ? Should they only have sex for the purpose of having kids ?

Maybe I'm perverted but I think having a healthy, enjoyable sex life is important to a couple, even if they're not trying to have children.

It's not as black and white as you make it out to be.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

My orthodox friend told me about how girl on girl was not written against exactly. Am I allowed to say thats hot?

Girl on girl is disgusting. If you truly think it's hot you have clearly been brainwashed by our culture.

True, it is all sick... When sex is used like this it makes Hashem disgusted at mankind. While Hashem wanted sexual relations to be pleasurable, it was so that we would not become extinct. But the pleasure of sex is being used for simple pleasure, and this is the abomination.

OK, now that Tron has been exposed, ahem, 'outted', I'd like to ask a question.

From Muman's quote above, it seems that we shouldn't have sex for simple pleasure. Rather, the act of having sex seems to be one that should be undertaken mainly for the purpose of procreation.

I don't agree that Judaism requires there to not be pleasure in sexual relations between man and wife.  If that is what muman meant, I disagree with him.   I think he meant to say that it shouldn't be for the sake of selfish pleasure.  It should be based on love and wanting to have a shared experience with one's spouse.   A give and take, not just take.  If that's what he meant, I agree with him.   That is the ideal, but even if one doesn't reach it always, (or even when you do reach it) it doesn't mean there can't or won't be any pleasure felt and enjoyment in relations.

Maybe I'm perverted but I think having a healthy, enjoyable sex life is important to a couple, even if they're not trying to have children.

I agree 100%, I don't know of anything in judaism that says otherwise.   The "sex only for sake of procreation" was a catholic thing, but even catholics enjoy sex.  Because they're human.

[muman613]

My orthodox friend told me about how girl on girl was not written against exactly. Am I allowed to say thats hot?

Girl on girl is disgusting. If you truly think it's hot you have clearly been brainwashed by our culture.

True, it is all sick... When sex is used like this it makes Hashem disgusted at mankind. While Hashem wanted sexual relations to be pleasurable, it was so that we would not become extinct. But the pleasure of sex is being used for simple pleasure, and this is the abomination.

OK, now that Tron has been exposed, ahem, 'outted', I'd like to ask a question.

From Muman's quote above, it seems that we shouldn't have sex for simple pleasure. Rather, the act of having sex seems to be one that should be undertaken mainly for the purpose of procreation.

I don't agree that Judaism requires there to not be pleasure in sexual relations between man and wife.  If that is what muman meant, I disagree with him.   I think he meant to say that it shouldn't be for the sake of selfish pleasure.  It should be based on love and wanting to have a shared experience with one's spouse.   A give and take, not just take.  If that's what he meant, I agree with him.   That is the ideal, but even if one doesn't reach it always, (or even when you do reach it) it doesn't mean there can't or won't be any pleasure felt and enjoyment in relations.

Maybe I'm perverted but I think having a healthy, enjoyable sex life is important to a couple, even if they're not trying to have children.

I agree 100%, I don't know of anything in judaism that says otherwise.   The "sex only for sake of procreation" was a catholic thing, but even catholics enjoy sex.  Because they're human.

KWRBT,

You are correct that I intended to say that sex for the sake of selfish pleasure was against the Jewish belief. Sex is a beautiful thing and Hashem made it pleasurable for a reason. To deny this pleasure is just insane but it should be conducted within the framework of Kiddushin {Holy Marriage}.

When the act becomes an act of using the other person it loses its holiness and becomes an act of desecration...