Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea

The Berbers

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MarZutra:
......your words come from the mouth of a very wise source...

HEBREWHONOR:
noahidegentile - berberians look like hindus(indians of india i meant , not indians of america) in coulour of skin , they dont look white , i donno where i u getting youre information from , but just search for a typical market picture from morrocw, and judge for youre self.

u said "They need to go back to paganism, their root. And not this foreign Arabian religion."

whats the freaking difference  , what kind of noahide promots neo paganism? that new , do u know what noahide means? (its means a gentile who accept the laws given to noah and his sons , 7 noahide laws , of whom one is to deny any worship of other g-ds besides the one true g-d)

"The abrahamics preached that natural things in life were an abomination and vile. "

Thats not true , we adhere g-d and whatever he commands us to do , all that he ctreated for men , can be used on diffrent level
worship of sun , moon , stars ,lakes , and animal ,and man made statues is indeed abomination and vile
'natural' things isn't abomination ,unless g-d say it is .but evreything should be done with accepting the yoke of heaven , and crowning g-d over one self , Not to be bound to beastiality and worship it , but ruling one inner self , while making his ways according to the desire of g-d

u say

"We, Pagans (European Pagans as well as the Pagan-Hindus of India) have been barbarically brutalized, massacred, persecuted and decimated historically by the Exclusivist Creeds of Islam and Christianity. In the new high-tech world of today, the calls of our Pagan-Ancestors are calling upon us for revenge. They are calling upon all of us (Pagans of India and of Europe) to re-conjure, re-emerge, and re-surge our ancient, indigenous, Pagan religions of Europe and elsewhere, and to disseminate these Pagan-Religions  into the modern world of Europe, and areas around the country of India."

If that weak g-ds of paganism couldn't help them while the christians and muslims did whatever they wanted to them in name of their wannebe invented 'real g-d', so why u should worship those g-ds now?

youre ancestors belived in the real g-d , before beliving in stupid superstitious multiple g-ds , one for any subjact they saw .

i know youre theories , i know neo pagans , some of them are highely antisemitic and Blame me , for what the christians did to them , as claiming that we had anything to do with christianity in the first place

stupid idiots like 'the pagan front' etc , are bunch of weak gay homos who belive in weak gods who dont exsist , and for your own good , i hope youre not a part of that weaklings


about what u argued about later

1.there were europian people (like the celts, in our lenguage , gomer) which would make the canaanites look like moral full people and familiy oriented

2.There is no such thing as aryan people , aryan race is a theory of modern europians who want to connect all living europians , in reality , it was the name of lenguage of the Zoroastrian religion
as well a word  in persian and ancient sinskirt to describe a noblemen ,or respacted one . there is only one type of ppl who actually called themselves "ariens" ,they are from afganisthan , and not really white either

3. all modern europian tribes and their ancient religions are not aryans , yet originate from mesoptamia and asia .our ancestors, and the assyrians and egyptians  kept track on most of this ppl , at their older form

the slavonics in hebrew are called Riphat (notice toponymes which the names appear in , kariphtaian basin , priphiyat river ,etc)

the scandinevians are called ashkenaz , the assyrians called them askusa , the goths called them askandza

the celts , we called gomer , the assyrians called them Gimirrai  , known in modern lenguage as Kimmerii or Cimmerians and the greeks called them Keltoi , in which the term 'celts' come from

notice that in the scandinavian mythologies, they say their gods fougth a race of giants called "gumir" , probably a trace to ancient war stories who was kept through the balsagot in mythical way


and etc  . , i can do the same thing and connecting og modern europians to their ancient form ,with almost all main ethnic groups in europe

4.Stonehenge was not built by the druids , but in the neolitic era (pre the mabool , according to our sources) , it wasn't used for worship , but to count the days by the moon
the druid worship in the place , was for the sun , PROVING , they did not built the place(since it was for counting the days of the moon)  They only adopted it later

HEBREWHONOR:
what i said is that stonehenge was built in the neolithic era (before 5000 years ago) which is in judaism pre mabool era .

there is works of archaeologists  about this place and others near it which prove it was regarding counting days in a lunar way

אני גם חקרתי את קצת את הנושא לפני כמה זמן ,וראיתי שבתקופה הניאוליתית כמה וכמה תרבויות היו טובות מאוד בחישובים ואסטרונומיה , כמו האנשים שבנו את סטונהייג וציירו ציורים במערות הסמוכות אליו שנוגעים בעניין הספירה לפי הירח , כמו כן, מצאו שלוש מגבעות זהב של אותם אנשים, בשלוש מקומות שונים באירופה, ועל המגבעות האלה יש ציורים של הירח בתנוחות ופוזיציות שלו בכל יום בשנה
כמו כן בו זמנית היה עם לפני מצרים הקדומה, שהיה חי באיזור שהיום נחרב במצרים (אז הוא היה יחסית פורה לפי תמונות מהחלל שמצביעים על זרימת מים במקומות האלה בעבר) וגם הוא ידע לחשב דברים והיה לו מערכת חישוב של שעות לפי אבנים, ומפות אסטרונומיות פרימיטיביות

וזה מעניין,כי התקופה הזאת היא לפני המבול, והיא מפסיקה בפתאומיות, בדיוק באותו זמן בו לפי היהדות היה המבול , ואחרי זה מתחילות להופיע תרבויות נחשלות בלי המון ידע , שזה קצת לא נורמלי אלא אם התרחש דבר ששינה את העולם והבני אדם היו צריכים בגללו להתחיל ללמוד דברים מחדש, ליהדות כמובן יש לזה פתרון, המבול...

"I think The Flood was only in The Middle East "

thats not what the torah says , the torah speaks about the whole world .
 "וְהַמַּיִם, גָּבְרוּ מְאֹד מְאֹד--עַל-הָאָרֶץ; וַיְכֻסּוּ, כָּל-הֶהָרִים הַגְּבֹהִים, אֲשֶׁר-תַּחַת, כָּל-הַשָּׁמָיִם.   "

there is no record of different people who did not originate from adam , and then noah , actually , there is a midrash or perush saying A'ug servived , so he probably married one or more of noah sons  daughters , but thats it.

יכול להיות שהיו עוד בני אדם חוץ מאדם הראשון, אבל אדם הראשון נברא ראשון ,ואם עוד נבראו,ייתכן כי נבראו ממנו, לא בצורה טבעית , כי למשל יש פסוק שקין אומר להשם שהוא מפחד שינסו לנקום בו , אז זה יכול לתרץ את מה שאתה טוען, שהיו עוד אנשים,אבל כך או כך ,הם כולם סביר להניח באו מאדם הראשון , וכך או כך, חוץ מעוג לפי מדרש או פירוש  , אף אחד חוץ מנח ובניו ומשפחתו , לא שרדו את המבול, ככה שכל הבני אדם היום הם מנח


sorry for the usage of hebrew , just wanted to sharpen some points whom was hard to do in english , o she lo ratziti le hagid , be anglit .

MarZutra:
Very good post H.  I have read that before about Stone Henge but didn't know if it was fact or the work or more "politically correct" authorship trying to distance the barbarity of pagan worship as it relates to Stone Henge, the Bogmen from Denmark or Ireland....etc.  I knew Stone Henge, the original place dates more than 8000 BC and the monument itself seems to have been erected to at different stages before 3000 BC to about 1500 BC.  The rest to me is new...LOL  Fabulous post...

BabylonianJew:

--- Quote from: MarZutra on April 14, 2007, 09:46:10 PM ---
--- Quote from: HEBREWHONOR on April 14, 2007, 08:33:03 PM ---First of all ,hehe , i'm a morrocian jew , the berbers arn't white , they look like indians(hindu i mean) , sometimes blacker

why should they be christians ?

i belive christians who really belive in g-d , should become seven noah laws keepers , instad of being christians .


--- End quote ---
I don't think the Berbers are Christian or ever were... I believe thought they were pagans and were Arabized with forced conversions to Islam in the 8th-11th centuries...  I could be wrong.  The part about Christians becoming Noahides, that is and must be their choice...  You are a Moroccan Jew?  Nice...  My British friend just came back from Morocco yesterday..
 

--- End quote ---

Actually Berbers had three main religions Christian, Pagan, and Jewish. The Jewish Berbers for the most part resisted the Arab invaders. Read about Dayia Al-Khaina.

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