Author Topic: First 5 Pasuqim Of Bereishith The Way It Should Be Read!!!  (Read 20694 times)

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Offline דוד בן זאב אריה

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Re: First 5 Pasuqim Of Bereishith The Way It Should Be Read!!!
« Reply #50 on: October 15, 2009, 05:37:56 AM »
I see no problem with following a certain custom. But to say that other customs are wrong and there is 1 right way is simply wrong and I believe it is biggoted. Is that to say that because I don't eat Kiniot during Pesach that I am doing it wrong. Is that to say that every custom is wrong because another sect of Jews does it differently. That is not to say that each culture and each sect is not beautiful in its own way. I follow Askanazi custom because that is my backround. I Read and speak and Israeli brand of Hebrew because that is how I first learned it when I went to Hebrew school when I was 5 years old.
David Ben Ze'ev Aryeh


Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: First 5 Pasuqim Of Bereishith The Way It Should Be Read!!!
« Reply #51 on: October 15, 2009, 11:31:52 AM »
This site is very interesting... It has various songs with different Hebrew pronunciations...

http://torahreading.dafyomireview.com/

Torah Reading - Ashkenaz (complete) (courtesy of kolhaloshon.com)

Torah Reading - Sefaradi (complete) (most of Devarim by Chazan Moshe Shema)

Tehilim Reading - Chasidish (Israeli)

Tehilim Reading - Yemenite Sefaradi

Shir HaShirim (song of songs) - Israeli  (Musical. CD quality)

 Megilas Shir HaShirim, Esther, Ruth, Eicha  Cantorial Ashkenazi  (from 613.org)

Awesome link!  Thank you.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: First 5 Pasuqim Of Bereishith The Way It Should Be Read!!!
« Reply #52 on: October 15, 2009, 11:37:07 AM »
BTW I also learned Hebrew the Israeli way of pronunciation as a child (excluding the weird "resh"), and I see no compelling reason why I should "switch" to saying a "sav" instead of a "tav."   On the other hand, I DO see much reason to adopt an actual het, rather than a duplicate of khaf that I was taught, and so I pronounce het like Sephardim since that is the actual letter.   Yes it is ok to say pronouncing a het as a khaf is mistaken, and that is not insulting anyone david ben aryeh, it is merely stating a fact.    If one wishes to cling to their incorrect pronunciation, that is their right, but they can't claim that facts aren't facts and that a given letter is not a given letter.   And if someone wishes to adopt what he sees as correct, there is nothing wrong with that either - You don't suggest that there is, do you?

Offline Sefardic Panther

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Re: First 5 Pasuqim Of Bereishith The Way It Should Be Read!!!
« Reply #53 on: October 15, 2009, 06:25:22 PM »
What about nekudot that represent vowels? What about the difference between patch and kamatz, segol and tzere, etc?

Again I am willing to go with the Temani on the Nequdot as well. For instance they do not distinguish between sagol and patah and I think Rashi himself said that sagol and patah are the same.

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Moshe92

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Re: First 5 Pasuqim Of Bereishith The Way It Should Be Read!!!
« Reply #54 on: October 15, 2009, 06:48:51 PM »
One of the administrators from the Hebrew forum is a Yemenite Jew, and he makes a lot of videos of himself reading torah. Here is one of his recent videos, and you can see others in the list of related videos.



I was following along with a tanach, and I noticed that he pronounces the gimel with a "j" sound, and he pronounces a tzadi like a samech.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: First 5 Pasuqim Of Bereishith The Way It Should Be Read!!!
« Reply #55 on: October 16, 2009, 02:11:23 PM »
One of the administrators from the Hebrew forum is a Yemenite Jew, and he makes a lot of videos of himself reading torah. Here is one of his recent videos, and you can see others in the list of related videos.



I was following along with a tanach, and I noticed that he pronounces the gimel with a "j" sound, and he pronounces a tzadi like a samech.

There are a few different Yemenite customs, one in which they pronounce the "j" sound, and one in which they do not.  I forget which cities in Yemen correspond to which mesorah.   Rav Bar Hayim has claimed that the scholarship shows that the Yemenite tradition for gimmel is the original custom and that the "jimmel" developed as a variant custom.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: First 5 Pasuqim Of Bereishith The Way It Should Be Read!!!
« Reply #56 on: October 16, 2009, 02:16:06 PM »
What about nekudot that represent vowels? What about the difference between patch and kamatz, segol and tzere, etc?

Again I am willing to go with the Temani on the Nequdot as well. For instance they do not distinguish between sagol and patah and I think Rashi himself said that sagol and patah are the same.

Right it depends on the dialect of Hebrew.   The Teymanim are the most accurate preservation of the Bavli dialect (spoken in Bavel).  I'm not sure if the vowels are all correct, but they as a whole are the closest mesorah.   The "Tiveria" dialect ( which was spoken in eretz Yisrael) had slightly different vowel sounds I believe, and it is said to be no longer a living dialect because no one pronounces it.  You will find on the wikipedia page about Hebrew it says this dialect is "dead."   But based on research of Rabbi Bentzion HaKohen in the sefer Sefath Emeth, Rabbi Bar Hayim has tried to resurrect this once-forgotten pronunciation, (he uses this 'Tiveria' pronunciation as do some of his students) which differs slightly from the Teymani pronunciation which is more Bavli dialect based.