Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
On Shabbat no fire?
muman613:
Here are some references:
--- Quote ---http://www.torah.org/advanced/mikra/5757/sh/dt.57.2.09.html?print=1
These questions lead us to a larger one regarding Shabbat as presented in our Parashah. Up until this point, the commands regarding Shabbat (in the Mahn and in the Ten Statements) were framed in terms of a "gift from G-d" (Mahn) or testifying to G-d as the Creator (the Ten Statements). In addition, the selection in the Ten Statements would seem to imply that Shabbat should ideally be observed by all of humanity, as G-d created us all and we should all testify to that fact. Yet, in our Parashah, Shabbat is clearly presented as a uniquely Israelite practice, one which does not "belong" to other nations. (Indeed, the Rabbis stated that a non-Jew should not observe Shabbat - see BT Sanhedrin 58b, MT M'lakhim 10:9). Besides this "nationalistic shift", several new terms are introduced in our Parashah:
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--- Quote ---http://www.learningtorah.org/DvarTorah/ViewDvarTorah.aspx?dtID=717
The Talmud (Sanhedrin 58b) points out that it is not permissible for a non-Jew to observe Shabbos. The Zohar explains this law by way of a parable: the maid in a royal palace has the keys to all of the rooms, and is expected to keep everything in good shape. However, when the king is having an intimate encounter in the bedroom with the queen, if the maid will barge in at that time, she will have her head handed to her. Shabbos is the day on which we (the Jewish people and Hakadosh Baruch Hu) celebrate our wedding anniversary, and there is much more intimacy than all week long, and non-Jews intruding on that privacy are likened to the maid in the parable.
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--- Quote ---http://www.ravkooktorah.org/BSHALA64.htm
The Sabbath commemorates the creation of the universe. However, this mitzvah was not given to all of humanity. The Sabbath is a special gift for the Jewish people [Sanhedrin 58b]. Why?
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--- Quote ---http://www.shemayisrael.co.il/parsha/fleisher/archives/chukas63.htm
Ch. 23, v. 9: "Hen om l'vodod yishkone uvagoyim lo yis'chashov" - Behold a nation that rests alone and is not calculated among the nations - We can interpret the words, "hen om l'vodod yishkone" to allude to the ruling that only the bnei Yisroel may have a day of rest, and gentiles may not even designate a day of rest (gemara Sanhedrin 58b). If a gentile sets aside a regular day for refraining from creative activities, "m'lochos," he is deserving of death, as per the above gemara. This is also alluded to in the words "lo yis'chashov," whose letters when transposed spell "shovas lo chai." (Rabbi Noach Mindes in Parpro'os L'chochmoh)
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rhodescholar:
--- Quote from: Zelhar on October 23, 2009, 08:20:31 AM ---I think in Shabat Hanuka the menorah is lit before the Shabat begins and the day after it is lit after the Shabat ends. The Shabat Candles are lit just before Shabat, actually I think an hour before the Shabat actually begins.
But it is true that sparking fire is forbidden on Shabat and based on that rule even turning on lights or electrical appliances is also forbidden.
--- End quote ---
I do not want to derail the thread, but this is one of those situations that has seriously drawn me away from judaism in a strong way.
There is no connection whatsoever to turning a light on and "starting a fire."
The wire inside an incandescent bulb is not on fire, and what will scholarly rabbis say in 10 years when organic LED lights, which are chemical compounds, are the primary light source in most homes? Will they also be banned for some stretched-beyond-belief reasoning?
This is an area that has driven me to consider conspiracy theories about my native religion, where, as a means of rabbis showing how important, valuable, and knowledgeable they were, they would interpret issues in this manner, which made no sense 100 years ago, or today.
Moshe92:
--- Quote from: rhodescholar on November 12, 2009, 09:30:36 PM ---
--- Quote from: Zelhar on October 23, 2009, 08:20:31 AM ---I think in Shabat Hanuka the menorah is lit before the Shabat begins and the day after it is lit after the Shabat ends. The Shabat Candles are lit just before Shabat, actually I think an hour before the Shabat actually begins.
But it is true that sparking fire is forbidden on Shabat and based on that rule even turning on lights or electrical appliances is also forbidden.
--- End quote ---
I do not want to derail the thread, but this is one of those situations that has seriously drawn me away from judaism in a strong way.
There is no connection whatsoever to turning a light on and "starting a fire."
The wire inside an incandescent bulb is not on fire, and what will scholarly rabbis say in 10 years when organic LED lights, which are chemical compounds, are the primary light source in most homes? Will they also be banned for some stretched-beyond-belief reasoning?
This is an area that has driven me to consider conspiracy theories about my native religion, where, as a means of rabbis showing how important, valuable, and knowledgeable they were, they would interpret issues in this manner, which made no sense 100 years ago, or today.
--- End quote ---
Lights serve the same purpose as fires. The fact that one is building a circuit by turning on a light may also go against the rules of shabbat.
rhodescholar:
--- Quote from: Moshe92 on November 12, 2009, 09:32:50 PM ---
--- Quote from: rhodescholar on November 12, 2009, 09:30:36 PM ---
--- Quote from: Zelhar on October 23, 2009, 08:20:31 AM ---I think in Shabat Hanuka the menorah is lit before the Shabat begins and the day after it is lit after the Shabat ends. The Shabat Candles are lit just before Shabat, actually I think an hour before the Shabat actually begins.
But it is true that sparking fire is forbidden on Shabat and based on that rule even turning on lights or electrical appliances is also forbidden.
--- End quote ---
I do not want to derail the thread, but this is one of those situations that has seriously drawn me away from judaism in a strong way.
There is no connection whatsoever to turning a light on and "starting a fire."
The wire inside an incandescent bulb is not on fire, and what will scholarly rabbis say in 10 years when organic LED lights, which are chemical compounds, are the primary light source in most homes? Will they also be banned for some stretched-beyond-belief reasoning?
This is an area that has driven me to consider conspiracy theories about my native religion, where, as a means of rabbis showing how important, valuable, and knowledgeable they were, they would interpret issues in this manner, which made no sense 100 years ago, or today.
--- End quote ---
Lights serve the same purpose as fires. The fact that one is building a circuit by turning on a light may also go against the rules of shabbat.
--- End quote ---
"Rules of shabbat"? What does that mean, a questioning person is supposed to be a child and just accept "that that is the way things are"?
If that is your line of reasoning, it should not be surprising that people are abandoning religion in droves...
rhodescholar:
--- Quote from: Dan ben Noah on November 12, 2009, 09:41:48 PM ---A glowing filament counts as a fire and completing a circuit counts as creating something. I don't see how Jews not turning lights on would make people adopt conspiracy theories against their own people.
--- End quote ---
"Creates" something? When I sneeze, I create air bubbles - should sneezing be against shabbat as well?
My point was that the "law" of not turning on lights on shabbat was purely arbitrary in my mind, and the fact that recently, some israeli rabbis now, all of a sudden, claim that even elevators that stop on each floor are not "kosher" is an example of what I am referring to.
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