Author Topic: A question about the Nazirites  (Read 4136 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Ulli

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10946
A question about the Nazirites
« on: October 29, 2009, 12:01:33 PM »
What types of substances are banned for him? Only wine, all alcohol or all substances who move the psyche?

"Cities run by progressives don't know how to police. ... Thirty cities went up last night, I went and looked at every one of them. Every one of them has a progressive Democratic mayor." Rudolph Giuliani

Offline Zelhar

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10689
Re: A question about the Nazirites
« Reply #1 on: October 29, 2009, 02:02:01 PM »
That's a good question. Only wine is mentioned I think not only in the Torah but also in the Mishnah. But I think the deductive principle of "Kal vachomer" applies here, meaning anything that has more powerful influence than wine should also be avoided.

Offline Ulli

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10946
Re: A question about the Nazirites
« Reply #2 on: October 29, 2009, 02:10:30 PM »
That's a good question. Only wine is mentioned I think not only in the Torah but also in the Mishnah. But I think the deductive principle of "Kal vachomer" applies here, meaning anything that has more powerful influence than wine should also be avoided.

Thank you Zelhar.  :)
"Cities run by progressives don't know how to police. ... Thirty cities went up last night, I went and looked at every one of them. Every one of them has a progressive Democratic mayor." Rudolph Giuliani

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: A question about the Nazirites
« Reply #3 on: October 29, 2009, 02:57:03 PM »
Actually a Nazarite is prohibited not only from wine and intoxicating substances but also from all grape products and shaving his head...

Quote
http://ohr.edu/ask_db/ask_main.php/162/Q3/

Dear Bob Lee,

If a person vows to become a Nazarite, he or she would indeed be obligated in all the commandments pertaining to a Nazarite. For example, a Nazarite may not drink wine or eat any grape products, cut his hair, or come in contact with a dead body.

The Nazarite vow terminates by bringing offerings to the Temple. Since today there is no Temple, a Nazarite would remain a Nazarite forever. Rabbi Dovid Cohen, zatzal (father of the current Chief Rabbi of Haifa) took a Nazarite vow, and hence remained one his whole life. He was exceptional in this regard, and became known as the 'The Nazir.'

However, Rabbi Cohen was a renowned tzaddik - a very righteous person - in all areas of Jewish conduct, and he was a great Torah scholar. A person shouldn't even consider becoming a Nazarite unless he is of similar ilk. Taking a Nazarite vow smacks of haughtiness. Furthermore, it's virtually impossible to avoid all the transgressions involved. I've never heard of anybody in this generation becoming a Nazarite.

More on the Nazarite vows found here:
http://www.akhlah.com/Parasha/bemidbar/naso.php
Quote
Nazirite

HaShem spoke to Moses, telling him to speak to the Israelites and say to them:

This is the law when a man or woman makes a nazirite vow to HaShem (nazir is the Modern Hebrew word for monk. A nazirite vow is not like other vows, because it involves special protocol, and ordinarily is for thirty days. Nazir means set apart and made holy.) He must separate himself completely from wine and wine-brandy. He may not even drink vinegar made from wine and wine-brandy. He may not drink any grape beverage, and he must not eat any grapes or raisins. As long as he is a nazirite, he may not eat anything coming from the grape, from its seeds to its skin.

As long as he is under his nazirite oath, no cutting instrument will touch the hair on his head. Until he completes his term as a nazirite to HaShem, the uncut hair that grows on his head is sacred.

As long as he is a nazarite to HaShem, he may not have any contact with the dead. He may not ritually defile himself (make himself impure) even when his father, mother, brother or sister dies, since his HaShem’s nazarite crown is on his head. As long as he is a nazarite, he is holy to HaShem.

If a person dies in his presence suddenly, and renders his crowned head ritually impure, then, when he purifies himself on the seventh day, he must bring two turtle doves or two young common doves to the priest to the Communion Tent entrance. The priest will prepare as a sin offering and one as a burnt offering to atone for his inadvertent defilement by the dead. On that day, he will resanctify his head. He will then begin counting his nazarite days from the beginning to HaShem, and he will bring a yearling sheep as a guilt offering. Since his nazarite crown was defiled, the first days can not be counted.

The following is the law of what the nazarite must do when the term of his nazarite vow is complete and of what he must bring to the Communion Tent entrance:

The offering that he must present will be one unblemished yearling male sheep for a burnt offering, one unblemished yearling female sheep for a sin offering, one unblemished ram for a peace offering, and a basket containing unleavened wheat loaves kneaded with oil and flat matzahs saturated with oil, along with the proper meal offerings and libation.

After the service at the Communion Tent entrance, the nazarite will shave off the crown of hair on his head. He will take the hair from the nazirite crown on his head, and place it on the fire that is under the sacrifice.

After the nazirite has shaved, the priest will take the cooked foreleg of the ram along with one unleavened loaf and one flat matzah, and place them on the nazarite’s open hands. The priest will wave them with the motions prescribed for a wave offering before HaShem. These are sanctified (made holy) to belong to the priest, along with the animal’s chest given as a wave offering, and the hind leg given as an elevated gift.

After all this, the nazarite may drink wine.

This is the entire law concerning the nazarite, who has a vow obligation to bring his nazarite sacrifice to HaShem. This is in addition to anything else that he may wish to present to fulfill his vow, which must be brought above and beyond what the law requires for his nazarite vow. 

PS: I have never learned that the prohibition on grapes and wine involves prohibition of other alcoholic drinks... But I would assume if a Nazir intends to keep his vows he should remain sober...


You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Ulli

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10946
Re: A question about the Nazirites
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2009, 03:09:21 PM »
This means today a  Nazirite is not able to terminate his vow?
"Cities run by progressives don't know how to police. ... Thirty cities went up last night, I went and looked at every one of them. Every one of them has a progressive Democratic mayor." Rudolph Giuliani

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: A question about the Nazirites
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2009, 03:19:43 PM »
This means today a  Nazirite is not able to terminate his vow?

So it seems... It requires the Beit Hamikdash, the Holy Temple, in order to make the required sacrifice...

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Zelhar

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10689
Re: A question about the Nazirites
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2009, 04:24:35 PM »
I think it might be possible to release one from his vow of Nezirut bye a Jewish court using the general procedure of התרת נדר releasing from vow. I am no expert though...

But this procedure is meant to be used to release people who vowed and then regret their vow, and to use it premeditatedly is surely not advised. 

Offline Zelhar

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10689
Re: A question about the Nazirites
« Reply #7 on: October 29, 2009, 05:05:28 PM »
Look at this: a Jewish nazir: No haircut, No wine, can have a wife
a Christian nazir (monk): have a hairdo (shaves the crown of his head), can drink wine, no women.

Offline Ulli

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10946
Re: A question about the Nazirites
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2009, 04:16:54 AM »
Look at this: a Jewish nazir: No haircut, No wine, can have a wife
a Christian nazir (monk): have a hairdo (shaves the crown of his head), can drink wine, no women.

Oh, perhaps simple fasting is more appropriate.
"Cities run by progressives don't know how to police. ... Thirty cities went up last night, I went and looked at every one of them. Every one of them has a progressive Democratic mayor." Rudolph Giuliani

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12581
Re: A question about the Nazirites
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2009, 06:04:42 AM »
Look at this: a Jewish nazir: No haircut, No wine, can have a wife
a Christian nazir (monk): have a hairdo (shaves the crown of his head), can drink wine, no women.

Oh, perhaps simple fasting is more appropriate.

Yes I think the practice of being a Jewish nazirite generally stopped being practiced long ago.  It was usually not encouraged anyway because it is very stringent and we don't want people to deny themselves so much, as a general rule.   But people who take on additional piety today usually do so through fasting or other measures in their personal life without a vow which is very serious transgression if one fails to live up to a vow.

Offline Ulli

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 10946
Re: A question about the Nazirites
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2009, 06:15:42 AM »
Look at this: a Jewish nazir: No haircut, No wine, can have a wife
a Christian nazir (monk): have a hairdo (shaves the crown of his head), can drink wine, no women.

Oh, perhaps simple fasting is more appropriate.

Yes I think the practice of being a Jewish nazirite generally stopped being practiced long ago.  It was usually not encouraged anyway because it is very stringent and we don't want people to deny themselves so much, as a general rule.   But people who take on additional piety today usually do so through fasting or other measures in their personal life without a vow which is very serious transgression if one fails to live up to a vow.

Yes, I think this is the right way. A broken vow will be very wearing to your conscious. In addition to that I am shure God will be angry towards you.
"Cities run by progressives don't know how to police. ... Thirty cities went up last night, I went and looked at every one of them. Every one of them has a progressive Democratic mayor." Rudolph Giuliani