Author Topic: Jewish or not really Jewish?  (Read 2993 times)

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Offline HiWarp

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Jewish or not really Jewish?
« on: November 19, 2009, 06:42:58 AM »
This is just a matter of curiosity. I know a woman who is Jewish and has an adopted daughter. The daughter's biological mother was not Jewish. The daughter was raised Jewish so my question would be, from a strict interpretation, is she considered Jewish? I suspect she would be equivalent to someone who has gone through conversion to Judaism but was just curious to find out for sure.

Part two of my question is when she gets older and has a child of her own, if that child decides to not be a practicing Jew, would he or she be considered Jewish?
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny;
when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”
---Thomas Jefferson

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Jewish or not really Jewish?
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2009, 07:22:05 AM »
This is just a matter of curiosity. I know a woman who is Jewish and has an adopted daughter. The daughter's biological mother was not Jewish. The daughter was raised Jewish so my question would be, from a strict interpretation, is she considered Jewish? I suspect she would be equivalent to someone who has gone through conversion to Judaism but was just curious to find out for sure.

Part two of my question is when she gets older and has a child of her own, if that child decides to not be a practicing Jew, would he or she be considered Jewish?

Was she converted as a child when the mother adopted her?   If so, when she becomes bat mitzvah, she can decide to accept or reject the conversion, since as a child she didn't have a choice.   Once she reaches that age and still keeps doing mitzvot and Jewish custom, then it is considered her acceptance of the conversion, and she would be a Jew who is transgressing if she decides not to keep halacha or violates certain precepts at a later time.    But if she does not keep mitzvot from when she becomes a bat mitzvah (age 12), then she is considered still a non-Jew, considered that she rejected the conversion and never became a Jew in the first place, and would not be transgressing when in the rest of her life she does not keep Jewish law.   

However, with regards to a plain adoption where there was not a conversion process (dunking in mikve), I'm not sure, I'll have to ask my rabbi.    I imagine that if she is not sure, she can do a conversion le'chumrah to remove any doubt.

Offline The One and Only Mo

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Re: Jewish or not really Jewish?
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2009, 10:32:59 AM »
This is just a matter of curiosity. I know a woman who is Jewish and has an adopted daughter. The daughter's biological mother was not Jewish. The daughter was raised Jewish so my question would be, from a strict interpretation, is she considered Jewish? I suspect she would be equivalent to someone who has gone through conversion to Judaism but was just curious to find out for sure.

Part two of my question is when she gets older and has a child of her own, if that child decides to not be a practicing Jew, would he or she be considered Jewish?
100% NOT JEWISH.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Jewish or not really Jewish?
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2009, 03:08:11 PM »
This is just a matter of curiosity. I know a woman who is Jewish and has an adopted daughter. The daughter's biological mother was not Jewish. The daughter was raised Jewish so my question would be, from a strict interpretation, is she considered Jewish? I suspect she would be equivalent to someone who has gone through conversion to Judaism but was just curious to find out for sure.

Part two of my question is when she gets older and has a child of her own, if that child decides to not be a practicing Jew, would he or she be considered Jewish?
100% NOT JEWISH.

She is Jewish if the mother had her new child converted by a bet din when she adopted her.

Offline The One and Only Mo

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Re: Jewish or not really Jewish?
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2009, 05:47:44 PM »
This is just a matter of curiosity. I know a woman who is Jewish and has an adopted daughter. The daughter's biological mother was not Jewish. The daughter was raised Jewish so my question would be, from a strict interpretation, is she considered Jewish? I suspect she would be equivalent to someone who has gone through conversion to Judaism but was just curious to find out for sure.

Part two of my question is when she gets older and has a child of her own, if that child decides to not be a practicing Jew, would he or she be considered Jewish?
100% NOT JEWISH.

She is Jewish if the mother had her new child converted by a bet din when she adopted her.
HiWarp didn't state that.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Jewish or not really Jewish?
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2009, 07:34:11 PM »
This is just a matter of curiosity. I know a woman who is Jewish and has an adopted daughter. The daughter's biological mother was not Jewish. The daughter was raised Jewish so my question would be, from a strict interpretation, is she considered Jewish? I suspect she would be equivalent to someone who has gone through conversion to Judaism but was just curious to find out for sure.

Part two of my question is when she gets older and has a child of her own, if that child decides to not be a practicing Jew, would he or she be considered Jewish?
100% NOT JEWISH.

She is Jewish if the mother had her new child converted by a bet din when she adopted her.
HiWarp didn't state that.

I guess so, but I was thinking that if there was no conversion at all performed, why would there be a question...

Offline The One and Only Mo

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Re: Jewish or not really Jewish?
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2009, 10:29:46 PM »
This is just a matter of curiosity. I know a woman who is Jewish and has an adopted daughter. The daughter's biological mother was not Jewish. The daughter was raised Jewish so my question would be, from a strict interpretation, is she considered Jewish? I suspect she would be equivalent to someone who has gone through conversion to Judaism but was just curious to find out for sure.

Part two of my question is when she gets older and has a child of her own, if that child decides to not be a practicing Jew, would he or she be considered Jewish?
100% NOT JEWISH.

She is Jewish if the mother had her new child converted by a bet din when she adopted her.
HiWarp didn't state that.

I guess so, but I was thinking that if there was no conversion at all performed, why would there be a question...
The ones who don't know ask. Clearly Hiwarp didn't know.

Offline HiWarp

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Re: Jewish or not really Jewish?
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2009, 06:09:03 AM »
This is just a matter of curiosity. I know a woman who is Jewish and has an adopted daughter. The daughter's biological mother was not Jewish. The daughter was raised Jewish so my question would be, from a strict interpretation, is she considered Jewish? I suspect she would be equivalent to someone who has gone through conversion to Judaism but was just curious to find out for sure.

Part two of my question is when she gets older and has a child of her own, if that child decides to not be a practicing Jew, would he or she be considered Jewish?
100% NOT JEWISH.

She is Jewish if the mother had her new child converted by a bet din when she adopted her.
HiWarp didn't state that.

I guess so, but I was thinking that if there was no conversion at all performed, why would there be a question...
The ones who don't know ask. Clearly Hiwarp didn't know.

I don't know whether there was a conversion performed. She only told me that she decided to raise her daughter Jewish. I will try to find out.
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny;
when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”
---Thomas Jefferson

Offline The One and Only Mo

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Re: Jewish or not really Jewish?
« Reply #8 on: November 20, 2009, 09:39:37 AM »
This is just a matter of curiosity. I know a woman who is Jewish and has an adopted daughter. The daughter's biological mother was not Jewish. The daughter was raised Jewish so my question would be, from a strict interpretation, is she considered Jewish? I suspect she would be equivalent to someone who has gone through conversion to Judaism but was just curious to find out for sure.

Part two of my question is when she gets older and has a child of her own, if that child decides to not be a practicing Jew, would he or she be considered Jewish?
100% NOT JEWISH.

She is Jewish if the mother had her new child converted by a bet din when she adopted her.
HiWarp didn't state that.

I guess so, but I was thinking that if there was no conversion at all performed, why would there be a question...
The ones who don't know ask. Clearly Hiwarp didn't know.

I don't know whether there was a conversion performed. She only told me that she decided to raise her daughter Jewish. I will try to find out.
Well unless it was an orthodox conversion, she can eat lobster every Saturday and not get punished  :P