Haredims and Kahanists ?

[Zelhar]

It is important to understand that there is a whole spectrum of religious variates in Israel. Charedism itself is a large various section on the spectrum.

i really hope their numbers grow, but i read somewhere here mention that Charedim men cannot interact with women? does that mean they have to live a celibate life? THen its really difficult for their numbers to grow.

They are strict about interacting with women that are not family, again to various levels according to their affiliation. But when it comes to marrying and producing children the Charedim are the Jewish champions.

[✡ Hindu Zionist ॐ]

It is important to understand that there is a whole spectrum of religious variates in Israel. Charedism itself is a large various section on the spectrum.

i really hope their numbers grow, but i read somewhere here mention that Charedim men cannot interact with women? does that mean they have to live a celibate life? THen its really difficult for their numbers to grow.

They are strict about interacting with women that are not family, again to various levels according to their affiliation. But when it comes to marrying and producing children the Charedim are the Jewish champions.

i find nothing wrong in that, and i also read that liberal Jews are protesting against this. Let me tell you... In India 70% of the schools/colleges have segregated seating arrangements for boys and girls. While 90% of public transport services in India too have segregated seating arrangements. Maybe this is because of Hindu culture/ethics. But, we never felt it restricts our freedom or that it is too strict.

[Zelhar]

It is important to understand that there is a whole spectrum of religious variates in Israel. Charedism itself is a large various section on the spectrum.

i really hope their numbers grow, but i read somewhere here mention that Charedim men cannot interact with women? does that mean they have to live a celibate life? THen its really difficult for their numbers to grow.

They are strict about interacting with women that are not family, again to various levels according to their affiliation. But when it comes to marrying and producing children the Charedim are the Jewish champions.

i find nothing wrong in that, and i also read that liberal Jews are protesting against this. Let me tell you... In India 70% of the schools/colleges have segregated seating arrangements for boys and girls. While 90% of public transport services in India too have segregated seating arrangements. Maybe this is because of Hindu culture/ethics. But, we never felt it restricts our freedom or that it is too strict.

I didn't know that India has segregated sitting arrangement in public transport. To be honest in my view it is too strict. In Israel there is seating segregation in some bus lines that serve mostly Charedim. But there is friction between the Charedim and the rest of Israel, including most religious Jews, regarding some of those lines that serve also the general population.

[✡ Hindu Zionist ॐ]

It is important to understand that there is a whole spectrum of religious variates in Israel. Charedism itself is a large various section on the spectrum.

i really hope their numbers grow, but i read somewhere here mention that Charedim men cannot interact with women? does that mean they have to live a celibate life? THen its really difficult for their numbers to grow.

They are strict about interacting with women that are not family, again to various levels according to their affiliation. But when it comes to marrying and producing children the Charedim are the Jewish champions.

i find nothing wrong in that, and i also read that liberal Jews are protesting against this. Let me tell you... In India 70% of the schools/colleges have segregated seating arrangements for boys and girls. While 90% of public transport services in India too have segregated seating arrangements. Maybe this is because of Hindu culture/ethics. But, we never felt it restricts our freedom or that it is too strict.

I didn't know that India has segregated sitting arrangement in public transport. To be honest in my view it is too strict. In Israel there is seating segregation in some bus lines that serve mostly Charedim. But there is friction between the Charedim and the rest of Israel, including most religious Jews, regarding some of those lines that serve also the general population.

Infact in the labour industry the workplace is also sagregated for women and men. Its not strict considering men and women are allowed to come together during festives (eg: ). And this is allowed in a Hindu Nationalist ruled state. So I'm thinking how would Kahanist government actually deal with the agenda of the Charedims. Because they seem to have united stand on national/religious issues, how bout cultural? I think this would be a good question to ask Chaim in Ask JTF.

[wonga66]

Nothing more hilarious than a 100% goy like Jean Claude van Damme with clip-on exaggerated peyos!
 

What do you mean that the haredim are not stylish?!  I think the peyot are cutest things ever!!!!!!!!!

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

What movie is that from?

His beard is legit at least.

[wonga66]

"The Order": a mediocre film with Christological overtones, but with some good fight scenes, where Van Damme, dressed as a Haredi, uses his karate to duff over Arabs and overweight Israeli policemen in the Old City of Jerusalem!

[HEBREWHONOR]

wonga66:
"Rabbi Kahane always said that "the Haredim are irrelevant!". And shame to tell, this is basically true! "

rabbi kahane never said this , and when this was raised at another forum (by i asume , you ?) lenny goldberg came and approved this is a lie .
 
"Witness the 2005 Hitnatkut: apart from a handful of Lubavitchers, not one Haredi took part in the demonstrations against the dastardly Gaza Deportation of their fellow Jews. "

the haredim arranged a huge prayer&demonstration on the wailing wall

"Had even a few % of the Haredim with their vast numbers taken part, it would have blocked the whole deportation."

there was blockades preventing the tousands from entering , many of those , indeed was charedim (and not just chabad)
berslovim are not charedim ? charedim spharadim are not charedim ?  come on ...

"There were no calls at all by Haredi leaders, politicians, rebbes, ravs or roshei yeshivahs to demonstrate."

not true at all , like i said , they arranged mass prayer-protest , and all politicians of the charedi parties didn't voted for that plan

"And the Haredi parties kept Sharon's government afloat during it, in exchange for $$$!"

shas wasn't in the goverment ... and yahadut hatorah only joined after the vote (in which they didn't supported on the knesset voting assembly)
the reason they joined the goverment , is not to keep sharon's goverment afloat , it is because they wanted what they came there to do in the first place , get money for their toranical institutions , this is why they are they are in the knesset for in the first place , to get money for this goals , since , unlike secular institutions, who have a yearly budget anchored by legislation in the country's yearly budget , charedi institutions dont ...so they work for that aim , with any goverment who are willing to give it , they are sectorial  paries , on the bottom line, and act according to that
shas however , chosed to not be a part of that criminal goverment , and i belive yahadut hatorah should have followed that path ..but i dont think its fair describing it with this simpilifaction kind of image , which might sound like , they actually joined the goverment because they suppoted what the goverment was doing g-d forbid ...that is absolutely not the case

[wonga66]

That R. Kahane said that "The Haredim are irrelevant" I heard this from R.Kahane himself in 1981. And you can call up his wife who'll confirm that that was one of his aphorisms, and also other of his mishpoche I've spoken to.

I do not view Lubavitch and Breslov as "Haredim". Lubavitch and Breslov are the closest of all the Hassidic groups in yichus to the Baal Shem Tov and to his Chassidic teachings, and therefore are 'truer' Chassidim ie probably have a higher % of correct ideology in them. The other Hassidic groups have tenuous connections to the Besht. And those like Satmar and Toldos Aharon, no connection at all.

Also the Lubavitcher Rebbe was right wing when it came to Eretz Yisroel and holding on to all territories and siezing those beyond, and most of his policies were in accord with Kahanism. 

I define "Haredim" as the other 95% of  black-garbed masses of Orthodox Jewry, Hassidic and non-Hassidic, who have little or no interest in Jewry or Eretz Yisroel outside of their own communities and narrow political agendas and financial interests, who totally disdain the "settlers' in Yesha, and whose rebbes and roshei yeshivah are as far from Kahanism as Shulamit Aloni.

There may have been paper notices for prayer meetings and expressing verbal opposition to the Hitnatkut by Ovadiya Yosef and Shas, who tried to make political capital out of it, but there was no mass Haredi turn out anywhere.

And even Breslovers and Lubavitchers were not to be seen at the actual physical demonstrations in Gush Kativ in July 2005. If only a few % of Haredim had turned out to join the non-Haredi protesters, which was too thin on the ground,  in blocking the main Jerusalem-Tel Aviv highway in May, in numbers that could not be moved, the story may have been different.

Today too, no Haredi will join a physical demo, unless he's actually ordered to by his rebbe or rosh yeshivah, or unless his home own home in Yesha is physically threatened.

Haredim are tough, heavyweight, strapping, healthy men. This is just a tiny fraction of the Belzer community in Jerusalem alone.   

And here a small part of the Viznitz community


Imagine if contingents from Belz, Bobov, Vizhnitz, Satmar, Toldos Aharon, Sadigur, Sanz, Ger, Ponovezh, Mirrer, Shas etc etc etc had all camped outside the Knesset to protest the Gaza Deportation and not moved: Sharon would have had no choice but to back down, or gun them down. I think he would have chosen the latter!

Rabbi Kahane's motto that "the Haredim are irrelevant" is as true as ever! Just like Noach took the entire reward of his generation, and Avraham of his, and R.Kahane likely of most of his, one day it may be shown that our little Chayim took a large chunk of the reward of all the these Haredi masses!

[Chai]

It is important to understand that there is a whole spectrum of religious variates in Israel. Charedism itself is a large various section on the spectrum.

i really hope their numbers grow, but i read somewhere here mention that Charedim men cannot interact with women? does that mean they have to live a celibate life? THen its really difficult for their numbers to grow.

They are strict about interacting with women that are not family, again to various levels according to their affiliation. But when it comes to marrying and producing children the Charedim are the Jewish champions.

i find nothing wrong in that, and i also read that liberal Jews are protesting against this. Let me tell you... In India 70% of the schools/colleges have segregated seating arrangements for boys and girls. While 90% of public transport services in India too have segregated seating arrangements. Maybe this is because of Hindu culture/ethics. But, we never felt it restricts our freedom or that it is too strict.

Its not as simple as you think. Did you know that in the bet hamikdash (Solomons temple) men and women were not segregated. Its not about ethics. In  Hamadan it was unheard of for a man and his wife to be separated in social functions like weddings yet, many charadi do this.   I understand the topic of the "sausage fest" , yet I do agree we should not be animals. But if you think about it, if one is married, he will be with his wife (or should be if they like each other lol) If they are single, all the more reason for segregation not to be implemented so one can find his soul mate.  Segregation for me personally is more for modesty such as bathrooms, changing rooms etc, not for being separated from your wife during dinner at a wedding.

[wonga66]

Another 100% goy with exaggerated clip-on peyos: Frenchman Louis de Funes

[muman613]

It is important to understand that there is a whole spectrum of religious variates in Israel. Charedism itself is a large various section on the spectrum.

i really hope their numbers grow, but i read somewhere here mention that Charedim men cannot interact with women? does that mean they have to live a celibate life? THen its really difficult for their numbers to grow.

They are strict about interacting with women that are not family, again to various levels according to their affiliation. But when it comes to marrying and producing children the Charedim are the Jewish champions.

i find nothing wrong in that, and i also read that liberal Jews are protesting against this. Let me tell you... In India 70% of the schools/colleges have segregated seating arrangements for boys and girls. While 90% of public transport services in India too have segregated seating arrangements. Maybe this is because of Hindu culture/ethics. But, we never felt it restricts our freedom or that it is too strict.

Its not as simple as you think. Did you know that in the bet hamikdash (Solomons temple) men and women were not segregated. Its not about ethics. In  Hamadan it was unheard of for a man and his wife to be separated in social functions like weddings yet, many charadi do this.   I understand the topic of the "sausage fest" , yet I do agree we should not be animals. But if you think about it, if one is married, he will be with his wife (or should be if they like each other lol) If they are single, all the more reason for segregation not to be implemented so one can find his soul mate.  Segregation for me personally is more for modesty such as bathrooms, changing rooms etc, not for being separated from your wife during dinner at a wedding.

Men and women did not dance together, even in the times of the Torah. You realize at the song of the sea that Miriam danced with the women... But aside from that, the only time that there should be separate seating is during davening, with a kosher mehitza.

 I think if you look at the Halacha, and what we learn in the Shulchan Uruch {Code of Jewish law} you will discover that there is something wrong with even an unmarried man having unpure thoughts about an immodest woman.

I know that the seperation issue is a divisive one... But I do understand that there is danger in what we look at, as we are tempted by our eyes and our hearts, another reason that we should wear our tzit-tzits out so that we should see them and remember.

http://mobile.chabad.org/m/article_cdo/aid/444101

But Why the Mechitzah?

There remains one burning question: If woman is the essence of prayer and song, why is she silent? Where is her creativity and inspiration? Where is her song? Fine, she won't be part of the protocol management. But why can't her voice and presence be an inspiration in the shul?

Things weren't always this way. In the tabernacle and in the First Temple, there was no separation between men and women. Only after matters got out of hand in the Second Temple, was the community forced to create a balcony for women above, while men stayed below. Perhaps, in the messianic era, when we return to our former spiritual status and more, we will return to the original format.

However, as human nature stands today, the reasoning of the sages of the Talmud is still very apparent: Men mingling with women, or listening to a woman's voice -- especially a woman that they know and can see -- are not necessarily carried to spiritual heights, but unfortunately often in the opposite direction. Women don't seem to understand this -- they seem to have very high opinions of us. But if you ask men, and if they're honest with you, they'll admit that they would not be able to pray with proper concentration in a situation where they can see and hear the fairer sex. (But this is a man speaking. Why not read this intriguing woman's view of how the mechitzah looks from her side?

There is a deeper perspective to all this: This is galut. Exile. The Shechinah is in captivity, not in her place. She is ignored and despised. And she is quiet there. But in the world-yet-to-come, the messianic era that we are poised to enter, then we will hear, "Once again in the cities of Judah and the streets of Jerusalem, the voice of joy and the voice of rejoicing, the voice of the groom and the voice of the bride."7

The Shechinah will sing once again.8

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

wonga66:
"Rabbi Kahane always said that "the Haredim are irrelevant!". And shame to tell, this is basically true! "

rabbi kahane never said this , and when this was raised at another forum (by i asume , you ?) lenny goldberg came and approved this is a lie .

Interesting.  I had assumed that if the quote was true he was speaking of the haredi political parties, which in that case it is absolutely true.  They are on the govt payroll and are given hush money, and that makes them irrelevant where they would otherwise be important.   
 

"Witness the 2005 Hitnatkut: apart from a handful of Lubavitchers, not one Haredi took part in the demonstrations against the dastardly Gaza Deportation of their fellow Jews. "

the haredim arranged a huge prayer&demonstration on the wailing wall 

To this ridiculous statement I will only quote Jacob Gur, a former commander of the Irgun, who puts it so aptly on his website: 

Quote:  "Rallies, demonstrations, whining, conferences, and raising funds, are not the way to depose the present pseudo democratic government of Israel, which leads the State of Israel in harm’s way. This government caves in to Arab thugs in the Land of Israel, and to “allies” who reek with petroleum.
It’s a government of pariahs, from left to right, who inflicted the Oslo Shoah upon us, and banished the Children of Israel from the Land of Israel. They are the lineage of those who caved in to the evil British regime in the 1940s, and delivered our freedom fighters to the British hangman. They shall be remembered in shame and everlasting contempt! "

That cannot be stressed enough in my opinion.

"There were no calls at all by Haredi leaders, politicians, rebbes, ravs or roshei yeshivahs to demonstrate."

not true at all , like i said , they arranged mass prayer-protest , and all politicians of the charedi parties didn't voted for that plan

This is a complete lie.  United Torah Judaism/Degel HaTorah was offered 690 million Israeli shekels to vote in favor of this plan and they did so.  Agudath Yisrael also supported it openly.   Btw, UTJ only received about 200 or so million of those 690 they were promised.   But they know where the bread is buttered, either way.  And they did vote for it.   

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

If they are single, all the more reason for segregation not to be implemented so one can find his soul mate.  Segregation for me personally is more for modesty such as bathrooms, changing rooms etc, not for being separated from your wife during dinner at a wedding.

I agree with you here and there are huge poskim who agreed with you as well, who encouraged mixed seating at weddings so that people could find potential shidduchim that way, and also big gedolim who sat with their own wives at weddings at a table with other people.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Muman who said anything about dancing?

I don't see that anywhere until you brought it up.   Mixed dancing is Vadae (Certainly) assur (forbidden).

[Chai]

It is important to understand that there is a whole spectrum of religious variates in Israel. Charedism itself is a large various section on the spectrum.

i really hope their numbers grow, but i read somewhere here mention that Charedim men cannot interact with women? does that mean they have to live a celibate life? THen its really difficult for their numbers to grow.

They are strict about interacting with women that are not family, again to various levels according to their affiliation. But when it comes to marrying and producing children the Charedim are the Jewish champions.

i find nothing wrong in that, and i also read that liberal Jews are protesting against this. Let me tell you... In India 70% of the schools/colleges have segregated seating arrangements for boys and girls. While 90% of public transport services in India too have segregated seating arrangements. Maybe this is because of Hindu culture/ethics. But, we never felt it restricts our freedom or that it is too strict.

Its not as simple as you think. Did you know that in the bet hamikdash (Solomons temple) men and women were not segregated. Its not about ethics. In  Hamadan it was unheard of for a man and his wife to be separated in social functions like weddings yet, many charadi do this.   I understand the topic of the "sausage fest" , yet I do agree we should not be animals. But if you think about it, if one is married, he will be with his wife (or should be if they like each other lol) If they are single, all the more reason for segregation not to be implemented so one can find his soul mate.  Segregation for me personally is more for modesty such as bathrooms, changing rooms etc, not for being separated from your wife during dinner at a wedding.

Men and women did not dance together, even in the times of the Torah. You realize at the song of the sea that Miriam danced with the women... But aside from that, the only time that there should be separate seating is during davening, with a kosher mehitza.

 I think if you look at the Halacha, and what we learn in the Shulchan Uruch {Code of Jewish law} you will discover that there is something wrong with even an unmarried man having unpure thoughts about an immodest woman.

I know that the seperation issue is a divisive one... But I do understand that there is danger in what we look at, as we are tempted by our eyes and our hearts, another reason that we should wear our tzit-tzits out so that we should see them and remember.

http://mobile.chabad.org/m/article_cdo/aid/444101

But Why the Mechitzah?

There remains one burning question: If woman is the essence of prayer and song, why is she silent? Where is her creativity and inspiration? Where is her song? Fine, she won't be part of the protocol management. But why can't her voice and presence be an inspiration in the shul?

Things weren't always this way. In the tabernacle and in the First Temple, there was no separation between men and women. Only after matters got out of hand in the Second Temple, was the community forced to create a balcony for women above, while men stayed below. Perhaps, in the messianic era, when we return to our former spiritual status and more, we will return to the original format.

However, as human nature stands today, the reasoning of the sages of the Talmud is still very apparent: Men mingling with women, or listening to a woman's voice -- especially a woman that they know and can see -- are not necessarily carried to spiritual heights, but unfortunately often in the opposite direction. Women don't seem to understand this -- they seem to have very high opinions of us. But if you ask men, and if they're honest with you, they'll admit that they would not be able to pray with proper concentration in a situation where they can see and hear the fairer sex. (But this is a man speaking. Why not read this intriguing woman's view of how the mechitzah looks from her side?

There is a deeper perspective to all this: This is galut. Exile. The Shechinah is in captivity, not in her place. She is ignored and despised. And she is quiet there. But in the world-yet-to-come, the messianic era that we are poised to enter, then we will hear, "Once again in the cities of Judah and the streets of Jerusalem, the voice of joy and the voice of rejoicing, the voice of the groom and the voice of the bride."7

The Shechinah will sing once again.8

I never mentioned Dancing. This is a problem when people jump to conclusions , it is ironic the less one knows the more strict they have

to be to ensure not making a sin. It is interesting that you add That Aspect of the first temple this is why

there are places such as in Hamadan that ultimately came from the era of the first temple and not the second ,which is why they do not

segregate their women, however people in the second temple era were indeed so corrupt and immoral that the temple had

to be destined indefinably... you made an amazing point  The Truth Is The Truth... And The Truth Hurts .....but i digress. on a lighter

side , if a woman really will disrupt a mans concentration in praying ..well , there are drugs to help with attention like aderall stratera or

ritalin  haha.

And yes i agree in the messianic era things will return to the original Judaism ..so if you like women you better get your act together so

the Moshash will come.

[✡ Hindu Zionist ॐ]

Haredim are tough, heavyweight, strapping, healthy men. This is just a tiny fraction of the Belzer community in Jerusalem alone.   

And here a small part of the Viznitz community

wow,great to see them united, focused to protect their culture. I hope they support Kahanists. I know they have some strong views, but that is what i admire about them(Haredims).

[Zelhar]

What is Hamadan ?

[Chai]

an area in Persia ..(unfortunately now Islamic republic  )were Mordecai and Ester lived

[wonga66]

And not forgetting the 5% of Haredim who actually side with our mortal enemies!



http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1139054.html
Ultra-Orthodox anti-Zionist Jews protest the Gaza siege at the Erez border crossing on Thursday

These are referred to in the Zohar as the Erev Zeir (Mixed Minitude) as opposed to the Erev Rav (Mixed Multitude). The Erev Zeir are nominal Jews who believe in the Torah and keep the mitzvos, but are still dangerous mortal internal enemies of the Am Yisroel!

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

As far as I am concerned, NK and Satmar are Jews who have converted to Islam.

[Moshe92]

As far as I am concerned, NK and Satmar are Jews who have converted to Islam.

That's true for NK but not for all of Satmar. Some Satmar chassidim are good people who just have wrong beliefs.

[Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks]

Yes, I know there are a couple righteous Satmar here and there (like that guy in the JDL), but they are being untrue to Teitelbaum's teachings. The Satmar cult is evil to the core.

[HEBREWHONOR]

wonga- hello again
last time we discussed this,you told me to ask lenny , and i did , and he said he never said such a thing , if charedim was irrelevant to him , why would he bother go and speak to them, interview to charedi papers (and he did , more then once) , he himself , in fact ,was charedi , he learned at The Mir yeshiva and he is a charedi rabbi , who even was charedi rabbi in a charedi community , much before the days of the jdl (!!!)  , he was against the term "dati leumi " he said it sounded as if people are trying to convert nationalism , etc .

perheps , you heard him say "natory karta" as in "anti zionist chardim" ,are irrelevant

that would be much more logical !

kahane believed that both dati leumi and charedim as "mega hashkfa's"  have strong points ,and weak points , and offered his "harayon hayehudi" (jewish idea)hashkafa , "back to the roots" , But in the bottem line , he himself was more charedi-rooted orthodox, and a charedi rabbi , again i remind you , he was learning in charedi yeshiva and his semicha lerabbanut came from a charedi yeshiva , and he was a charedi rabbi (very zionist , true , just as 99% sphardi charedim , btw and many ashkenaz charedim this days )

"I do not view Lubavitch and Breslov as "Haredim""

ok , but they are,you know

why no connection at all? they are after all chasidim ,with chasidim ideology

about the rabbi menachem mendel schneerson alav hashalom , true , he was a great supporter of erets israel and torah zionism

in that chabad ,berslov ,sphardi charedim , differ alot from satmar who says shloshet hashvuut forbid building a country now

however, there are many "zionist" charedi , anti-zionists today are a minority

well , i'm charedi , and i'm a kahanist

i'm not saying there arn't charedim as you describe , what i am saying is, its not a true picture to claim most are anti zionist , the opposit is true

"who tried to make political capital out of it"

did they ?  sharon offered them much in order to support it , and they refused . i think they should recieve respact for this , mainly because they actually took a "position" ... and like the anti-bagats demonstrations in 99 , and other cases , in which charedim did show their potential in the fight for torah causes , like look what they are doing now for shabbat in jerusalem , for months in a row

you know in jerusalem , in every purim , there are more beaten arabs then any other usual time of the year, usually arabs who are fool enough to walk near their neighborhoods , its actually how they celebrate purim , for few years now , kicking the daylight out of any arab who shows his face there
when rabbi binyamin kahane hy"d was killed , tousands of them came to the funeral (and beaten up any arab who was around , just search for media covrage and see for yourself)

overall , i agree more should be done about eretz israel ,and i'm not the only one , just a few months ago , new outpost (maahaz) was founded , by tens of kahanist charedim ! baruch hashem , and more should be built beezrat hashem

many charedi rabbi's show their support for eretz israel shelanu/hazit yehudit (rabbi baruch marzel and rabbi shalom dov wolpo shali"ta party ,part of the national union) and the "hamate haolami lehatsalat ha am ve ha aretz"  , just check out the list on their site
many charedi rabbis  show their support for rabbi meir kahane hy"d devray torah this days, just like many datiim leumiem ... so overall , things are building up and 'the jewish idea' (kahanism) gets much more support in both charedi and dati leumi hashkafot this days

anyway man , for years we have this discussions (if your the same guy) what i'm saying is , bro , i am a kahanist charedi , we do baruch hashem  exist lol , like we say in hebrew "lo le'hakhlil" ,(dont stygmatize ) all charedim as anti zionist , g-d forbid ... anti-zionist charedim this days are the minority of the charedi world , just as "mamlachtim bli psharot" are a minority now in general settlers opinions .

----------------------------------------------

kahane was right bt-

if the qoute is true (and i'm not saying he's lying , i'm saying it defy's logic  per say as it sound that rabbi meir kahane hy"d would have said it ) its likely about naturey karta

though the rabbi not only didn't ignored opinions of the anti-zionists , he wrote a toranical answer to their claims in his books , he considered satmar's view as a toranical view who should be answered correctly and not by mere "ze divray agada"

אבל הוא בהחלט דיבר נגד אלו שהולכים לערבים ומדברים נגד המדינה וכו' , וייתכן שזה כוון אליהם
(hopefully you understand hebrew , if not i'll write it to you in private )

"To this ridiculous statement I will only quote Jacob Gur, a former commander of the Irgun, who puts it so aptly on his website ...etc"

what would you suggest , uprising ?
demonstration is a good way to do "tochacha" ... and that what was done

i am all for - "block them with the masses" , unfortunately , even though THERE COULD BE ENOUGH MASSES , there were blockades and endless "walk around" instead of a charge forward
it is estimated that if 30 tousand people would have tried to simply defend with their bodies the settlements , this satanic plan wouldn't have been able to be done

there was many more then 30000 ... but they couldn't get in ...
and even if all charedim would have come , they still couldn't get in ...you know why ?

מועצת יש"ע , ונא לא לתרגם לאנגלית...הביזיון מספיק קשה גם בעברית, לא צריך שגם כל העולם ידע...
(hopfully you understood this , if not i'll send you on private)


your wrong they only sat in the goverment , in the actual knesset vote . shas voted against (all of them) and yahadut hatorah (degel and aguda) withhold (avoided , as in , didn't voted for it) , like i said"and all politicians of the charedi parties didn't voted for that plan "

check the knesset voting ,and see .

[HEBREWHONOR]

people ,stop comparing satmar and naturay karta ... satmar are halachic based people who believe that jews need to be in the galut untill mosiach comes and have a toranical point of view .... they are not "anti zionists" for the sake of "anti zionists" , they have a toranical based idea (which we have answered to in a toranical way ,we believe they are wrong )

naturay karta , some of them are satmar , not all of them , and not all of them went to achmadenjad , it is a splinter group which dont even listen to their rabbis who tell them not to do this and people should know this , this people WAS BANNED in israel , by everyone in meah shearim including other anti-zionist chassidim !!!

charedim have something called pashkvil, its like a ads of news .... when that thing happened , many ads showing what they have done was placed all over meah shearim by kahanists and charedim who work with kahanists who's nickname are "siccarim" (a group of charedim who fight muslim employment in jewish neigberhoods )  , and most charedim there were shocked and outraged about this , and about going to a holocaust denying event ! they were put on "herem" , which is jewish banning , means no relationship with any of them ... no one speaks with them  , in some torah evning done some time ago , one of them almost got lynched (the rabbi ordered those who wanted to punch him to stop , and said , tochacha(telling them they do wrong ) is enough - and the rabbi is not zionist charedi , just for the record!!!)

i'm telling this , because people should know , not all 'anti zionist" charedi (who are wrong regardless) are friends of arabs

rabbi Joel Teitelbaum alav hashalom , called the arab leaders like arafat yesh"u  murderers  ,he and other anti-zionist rabbi's forbade supporting them/shaking their filthy hands/or any self-hating beihavior like this