Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Earth at the Center of the Universe
Mifletzet:
"It is my firm belief that the sun revolves around the earth, as I have also declared publicly on various occasions and in discussion with professors specializing in this field of science." (Lubavitcher Rebbe)
Dr Gerardus Bouw PhD astronomy www.geocentricity.com
Dr Neville Jones PhD physics www.geocentricperspective.com
Sungenis PhD and Bennett's PhD www.galileowaswrong.com/
engineer Malcolm Bowden
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/malcolmbowden/Geocexpl.htm
have pro-geocentric sites. There are others.
There are several geocentric articles in B'Or HaTorah www.borhatorah.org
written by Orthodox Jewish PhD scientists.
All Relativists, if they are worthy of their salt, are obliged by definition to accept the geocentric model as being a primus inter pares.
Even an atheist like Bertrand Russell admitted: admitted "Whether the earth rotates once a day from west to east as Copernicus taught, or the heavens revolve once a day from east to west as his predecessors held, the observable phenomena will be exactly the same: a metaphysical assumption has to be made".
Muck DeFuslims:
Mif, Just to humor you, I took a few minutes to peruse the first site you provided a link to. Here's what I found in the first few minutes which told me I needn't bother to waste much more time at the site....
Here's just one of a multitude of the interesting quotes the reader will find from the writers and 'qualified scientists' there:
(Jewish readers of this thread should really enjoy the following quote and find it especially revealing !!)
"Einsteinian Relativity is anti-Biblical, but it is not a wholly secular concept. Indeed, it is an essential part of another "creation account" given in another "holy book", i.e., the Kabbala. This "holy book", with its 13th century Rabbinical concept of a "Big Bang-Expanding Universe", is an instrument of another religion which--along with the Talmud--specifically targets the Bible--and especially the New Testament of Jesus Christ--for destruction."
Notice the way the Kabbala is ridiculed and derisively referred to as a 'holy book' with sarcastic quote marks around it.
Also notice that according to this 'reputable' geocentric site the Talmud is the 'instrument of another religion' which 'targets the Bible for destruction'.
I'm sure the Jews reading this thread will be thrilled to know the Talmud targets the Bible for destruction.
Here's another 'proof' of geocentrism (in the form of a question designed to discredit Kepler and prove Copernicus was wrong) at this magnificent site:
"WHAT IF - Kepler's mother was a witch and he was raised a warlock assigned to bump Brahe off, wreck his work, steal his records, and twist them to promote Copernicanism and help pave the way for evolutionism (which he wrote about 250 years before Darwin)?"
Folks, I'm not making this stuff up.
And Mif takes this site seriously.
Mif, you'll have to excuse me if I don't bother checking the other site you linked to, I suspect it's similar to the first one, and there's only so much nonsense a rational human being can stand.
Mifletzet:
The Xtians have their own religious agenda, which we ignore.
Rav Avigdor Miller supported the "Moral Majority" and frequently quoted Xtian Young Earth Creation Scientists (who bring solid scientific supporting a 6000 year old universe), as well as lambasting the AOJS (Association of Orthodox Jewish Scientists) for their support of theistic evolution & billions of years!
Even Chaim praises the good points of some Xtians, and R.Kahane said that Xtian Zionists are more than useful, and that their support should be curried.
Many an Xtian has become a Noahide.
You should ignore their NT bias & concentrate on the scientific pro-geocentric sections of those sites.
At least a Creation Scientist believes in G-d and the truth of the OT.
Maybe Muck de Fuslim prefers to hold to the opinions of atheistic anti-Torah scientists like Richard Dawkins, Stephen Gould, Carl Sagan, Patrick Moore and Stephen Hawkins?!
But if you are absolutely allergic to anything written by gentile scientists, then read in the B'Or HaTorahs and give us your opinion of these writtten by Torah Jewish scientists:
"Geocentrism", Dr Avi Rabinowitz BHT 5 1986
"The Earth is Established - it cannot be moved", Amnon Goldberg BHT 10 1998
"Torah Metaphysics versus Newtonian Empiricism", Rabbi Shimon Cowen BHT 11 2000
"Give me a place to stand", Prof Juris Zakis BHT 13 2002
"The Observer and the System of Reference: A Unified View", Prof Herman Branover & Prov Ruvin Ferber BHT 13 2002
“Relativity and Geocentrism” in “Mind over Matter - the Lubavitcher Rebbe on Science, Technology and Medicine" 2003.
Lubab:
--- Quote from: Muck DeFuslims on June 14, 2007, 12:26:14 AM ---OK, Lubab, fair enough.
You believe the entire universe orbits a stationary Earth every 24 hours.
Just wanted to be sure.
--- End quote ---
I don't know why this is much harder to believe than what goes on with physical matter. I mean, in the atoms that make up your table you've got electrons going around the nucleas at a rate much faster than the speed of light. And yet, somehow, when these atoms are all working together we see a table that appears lifeless and motionless and almost dead.
I believe that what goes on with atoms is the same thing going on in the universe-only one is at the macro level and the other is at the micro-level.
G-d created all physical matter in one shot. So the same tremendous force that got the universe moving-got the electrons moving too. I believe it's all connected.
I mean no matter which viewpoint you adopt our solar system is in some tremendous motion and there is so much going on and yet it all seems so orderly and calm.
Yes. It's quite an amazing world we live in and Scriabin was right about our hopes of ever getting to the depths of it.
But hey, that's why this thread is in the appreciation for creation section right? ;)
Dominater96:
Rav Hai Gaon says specificly that the sciene that the Chachamim used, and the science of the Gemara, can be wrong, and some of it IS WRONG. The reason it is wrong is either A) It was the accepted theory of that day. B) They used Greek sources. I recommend reading Rav Nosson Slifkins books on these matters. The Challenge of Creation is a great book, and Mysterious Creatures. The Rav Hai Gaon source to come................
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