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Earth at the Center of the Universe

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Mifletzet:
By Einstein, it is not posssible to prove, from within the universe, what is going round what.

To do so, one would have to go outside the universe, observe from there, and report back!

Hoyle points out that the Earth does not, technically, revolve around the Sun, but rather, the Earth and Sun both revolve around the center of mass of the Earth-Sun system, which is quite a few miles from the Sun's central axis (though still well inside the Sun).

Hoyle points out that one must factor in all objects, starting with the nearest stars, to recalculate the true center-of-mass of the earth-sun-universe. Hoyle speculates that once one has properly applied the barycentric argument to all other entities in the universe (known as "widening the view angle of one's telescope to avoid self- serving tunnel vision"), the center-of-mass may easily be at the Earth's location, making it impossible to disprove the geocentric hypothesis.

Hoyle says the barycentric argument is only properly applied when every object in the universe has been factored into the center-of-mass calculation, a calculation that has never been done. He believes that consistent application of the barycentric argument, layer by layer, places the center- of-mass farther away from the Sun and closer to the Earth and concludes that the barycentric argument can easily and fully support pure geocentricity: "The Earth is suspended at the center of the universe" (Rambam, Hilchos Yesodei HaTorah 3).

Sarah:

--- Quote from: Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim on April 29, 2007, 03:53:04 AM ---I heard that Solar Systems revolve around other stars. So the whole Solar System including The Sun move around the galaxy. Probably galaxies also go around each other.



--- End quote ---

That seems to be the most logical of explanations merely from the fact that when a star dies it collapses inwards forming a black hole or a neutron star that is tremendously dense and sucks in everything surrounding due to its high gravtitational pull. Since the sun is the biggest star closest to earth it is probably pulling all our planets to revolve around it and that is so for other galaxies. However jdl4ever i strongly agree with you that it could merely be an illusion .............we will never fully be able to understand the universe due to our limitations of knowledge. Our bodies are made of destructable flesh and if confused by simple things who knows what we are seeing is not just an illusion.

Light in general alters how we see things and how things may positionally be.

MassuhDGoodName:
Re:  "...At the end of 6,000 year World, there is a period of 1,000 years of Shabbat..."

If it keeps up like that, we'll soon be in arbitration with the Shabbos Goys' Union over wages & benefits!

Lubab:
I found this letter by the Lubavitcher Rebbe on this topic with the accompanying story preceeding it. It confirms what I was thinking above and what Mitzlefet was saying. If someone really wants to get to the bottom of this, take this letter to someone who really knows about the theory of relativity and see if he can confirm what the Rebbe is saying here. The Rebbe bascially challenges you to do this here.

 The Wager

In the summer of 1975, an encounter took place between Rabbi F.R., a Lubavitcher chassid, and Mr. A.P., a "modernized" American Jew. Rabbi R. was seeking to influence Mr. P. toward a greater commitment to Torah observance, which the latter dismissed as "archaic" and dismally outdated. In the course of the conversation, Mr. P. said, "Are you telling me that every law and practice mentioned in the Torah, written thousands of years ago, must be accepted at face value today?" "Certainly,” replied Rabbi R. "The Torah is eternal, and is equally pertinent to every day and age." "The Torah states that the sun revolves around the earth," countered Mr. P. "Do you believe that as well?" "Yes, I do," replied Rabbi R. "Well, you might believe that," said Mr. P., "but no rational, self-respecting inhabitant of the 20th century does. I’m sure your rebbe, Rabbi Schneerson, doesn’t!" "I’m sure he does," said the rabbi. "I’m willing to wager anything that he does not," said Mr. P. "In fact, I’ll say this: If the Rebbe states that he believes that the sun revolves around the earth, I will become a Torah-observant Jew and convince everyone I know to do the same!" "Would you put that in writing?" challenged Rabbi R. "No problem," said Mr. P.

Soon after, Rabbi R. received the following letter:

Dear Rabbi R____

As per our conversation of today... I did say to you, and am submitting the same in writing by means of this letter, that if the Rebbe would make a public statement to the effect that... since the Talmud states that the sun revolves around the earth, it is therefore his firm belief that the sun does indeed revolve around the earth, that I will:

(a) personally observe the laws of taharat hamishpachah, tefillin and Shabbat; and

(b) influence my friends and colleagues to do the same.

It is, however, more than obvious to me that the Rebbe will not, in any way, make such a ridiculous statement, because

(a) he does not wish to be labeled as a fool,

(b) he himself is not as foolish as some of his ardent but hypnotized followers.

I predict, with no hesitation, that I will not hear any more about this matter from you or from the Rebbe...

I must tell you that I feel a deep personal hurt when people such as you make such asinine, ridiculous statements and then hide your abysmal ignorance behind the facade of "Torah." Don’t you realize you can still be believers and not live 500 years behind the times?

Mr. P. received not one but two separate letters in reply from the Rebbe, plus a third, cover letter, which read as follows:

Greetings and blessings!

Your letter, addressed to Rabbi F____ R____, reached me ... In view of its content, I naturally take this first opportunity of replying to it.

Not knowing whether you are more interested in the practical implication, or/and in the scientific aspect, I am writing two separate replies, enclosed herewith, which you can read in the order you prefer.

With esteem and blessing,

M. Schneerson

P.S. It is surely unnecessary to add-though I am adding it for the record-that I take for granted that you will keep your commitments with regard to the practical aspects of your letter.

One letter read:

... In reply to your question relating to the matter of the motion of the sun and the earth, whether the sun revolves around the earth or the earth around the sun,

It is my firm belief that the sun revolves around the earth, as I have also declared publicly on various occasions and in discussion with professors specializing in this field of science.

In view of the above, I have no objection, of course, if you wish to make this view known to whomever you choose...

The other letter read:

... This is in reply to your inquiry on the question of the rotation of the sun and the earth in relation to each other, namely, whether the sun revolves around the earth, or the earth around the sun, and which view is to be accepted, etc.

I presume you have in mind the scientific view, i.e., what science has to say on this question, and I will address myself to this aspect.

It is well known that this was a controversial issue in ancient and medieval science. However, since about half a century ago, with the introduction of the theory of relativity, the latter has been universally accepted as the basis of modern science...

One of the conclusions of the theory of relativity is that when there are two systems, or planets, in motion relative to each other-such as the sun and the earth in our case-either view, namely the sun rotating around the earth, or the earth rotating around the sun, has equal validity. Thus, if there are phenomena that cannot be adequately explained on the basis of one of these views, such difficulties have their counterpart also if the opposite view is accepted.

Secondly, the scientific conclusion that both views have equal validity is the result not of any inadequacy of available scientific data, or of technological development (measuring instruments, etc.), in which case it could be expected that further scientific or technological advancement might clear up the matter eventually and decide in favor of one or the other view. On the contrary, the conclusion of contemporary science is that regardless of any future scientific advancement, the question as to which is our planetary center, the sun or the earth, must forever remain unresolved, since both view(s) will always have the same scientific validity, as stated.

Thirdly, it follows that anyone declaring that a person who chooses to accept one of these systems in preference to the other is a fool, while one who accepts the other is a wise man-such a judgment shows that the person making it is ignorant of the conclusions of modern science, or that he has not advanced beyond the science of Ptolemy and Copernicus...

A further point might be added, though perhaps not pertinent to our discussion. It is that every person, including modern scientists, actually has three options to choose from in this matter: (a) that A revolves around B, (b) that B revolves around A, (c) that A and B revolve around each other. But such a choice cannot be dictated by science; it would be one’s personal choice and belief.

What has been said above is-to repeat-the deduction of the theory of relativity, as it is expounded in various scientific texts, and it can be checked with any scientist who is thoroughly familiar with the said theory. Of course, on the elementary and high-school level, science in general, and the so-called Solar System in particular, is taught from relatively simple textbooks, and the change in the scientific attitude towards the subject under discussion is not emphasized. But, as stated, it would be quite simple to verify it with any scientist who knows this particular field...

jdl4ever:
As much as I respect the Rebbe I think that he was wrong and Rabbi R. was correct.  It was proven a long time ago scientifically that the earth revolves around the Sun based on astronomical sightings.  In fact, after going to space several times, having dozens of sattalites in the sky, and having hundreds of thousands of telescopes all proving the earth goes around the sun should be enough proof for you.  If you want to try to prove that the scientists are lying, take out a telescope and do the measurements and chartings yourself and you will see that the arey correct.  The Rebbe did not do a wise move here.  The method of fools is to use brand new scientific concepts that they don't understand to rationalize there own arguments even though they don't know what they are talking about.  I talked with a physicist who understands the theory of relativity and the argument the Rebbe claims is laughable, in fact Einstein himself believed that the earth goes around the sun. 
 
        JDL4EVER disproves the Rebbe's argument

Firstly, the earth and the sun do not rotate around each other like the Rebbe claimed.  This was the basis of his entire argument and it is 100% wrong.  If the Sun did move around the earth and the earth did rotate around the sun then he would have a good argument since according to relativity an observer can't tell which one is rotating around who.  But this postulate is completely wrong, and the Rebbe knew it.  The Sun is in fact stationary and the Earth is the only object that moves so the Rebbe's basic postulate is wrong and relativity does not apply.

Secondly, even if we ignore the obvious error in the Rebbe's argument and assume that it is correct.  Namely, that an observer can't tell by observation which one goes around who if both are moving around each other, it still can be proven mathematically or scientifically which one goes around who and mathematically and astronomically we have proven that the Earth rotates around the Sun.  Relativity only talks about the relative observations of observers in this case.  However, the objective conclusion can be proven scientifically.  For example, relativity will state that if I am moving at the speed of light, light will appear stationary, but it can be proven scientifically that light is not stationary and it only appears stationary to myself. 

Thirdly, by adding another objective observer we can tell who is going around who.  For example, a space craft is an objective observer since it is not located on Earth or on the Sun and from that objective observer there is no more relativity and that observer will distinguish who is rotating around who.  Guess what?  The astronots in space have observed nothing unusual.  So in every singe aspect the Rebbe is wrong.

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