Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Earth at the Center of the Universe
jdl4ever:
Hello, Einstein the inventor of relativity believed himself that the earth went around the sun so that should be more than enough proof that what you are trying to claim is false and you are the ones who don't understand relativity. Relativity is a supplement to Newtonian physics, not a replacement to it. Any educated man who looks at your post will laugh out loud by your misconceptions that things can't be proven mathematically if they look appear certain way to our vantage point. Relativity itself was proven mathematically and you can prove which relativity is correct mathematically as well.
Also, who are you trying to fool? Yes, the Torah has everything in it but previous Torah scholars were only able to uncover a very tiny fraction of advanced science hidden the Torah since this information is so deeply hidden. If it was revealed in any great amount to the ancient scholars like you claim, then why didn't ancient Israel have electricity? Why didn't they invent vaccines? Why didn't they invent gunpowder and dynaminte? Why didn't they know basic Chemistry or physics? Why did Maimonities say things about medicine that was disproven? Why did the Shulchan Aruch say that you can't use toilet paper in the restroom because it is something that the fire rules over and is harmful but the REMA says he is wrong since people tried this and nothing happened to them? The fact of the matter is, that ancient Israel did not know about advanced sciences (or even basic science concepts) since G-d purposely kept this so hidden that it was impossible to find out since he wanted the human race to discover the sciences themselves at their own pace. The Torah is something else, since G-d revealed the Torah to us at Sinai and we expanded it through study throughout the generations. G-d did not reveal science to us at Sinai, even though the Zohar did uncover a deep secret about the big bang theory before the scientists talked about it, but this is the exception and not the rule.
And if you don't believe the earth goes around the sun then it is pointless discussing evolutionary concepts like intelligent design with you guys since you are not rational people who seek the truth with sincerity.
Lubab:
--- Quote from: jdl4ever on June 06, 2007, 07:48:43 PM ---Hello, Einstein the inventor of relativity believed himself that the earth went around the sun so that should be more than enough proof that what you are trying to claim is false and you are the ones who don't understand relativity.
--- End quote ---
Look at the language you are using. Einstein "beleived". You have correctly stated this (if its true). Einstein can beleive either way because they are both scientifically and mathematically valid. I've been saying that the whole time.
You can also beleive whatever you want. But don't convince yourself it's provable through mathematical calculations. I think you yourself even know this is true, you are just not prepared to admit it. I mean, you can do this experiment yourself using a bucket, or pool table balls or whatever. Make one pool table ball go around the other and try to prove which one is really moving based on your calculations. First calculate using one ball as the focul point. Then calculate using the other ball as the focul point. Does it only work out one way or two? How can you prove which way is right? If you can't prove it by pool table balls, how can you prove it by the sun and earth? Now please explain to me where my logic is off here.
If you are the real-truth seeker here, and geocentrists all irrational, why haven't you taken a stab at my question about the tennis ball? Now I've given you another question about pool table balls. Where are your answers? Where is the response?
I'm afraid you are the one denying obseravble reality in this case.
I challenge you to show this thread to a real physisits to see who is making sense here.
Lubab:
--- Quote from: jdl4ever on June 06, 2007, 07:48:43 PM ---Hello, Einstein the inventor of relativity believed himself that the earth went around the sun so that should be more than enough proof that what you are trying to claim is false and you are the ones who don't understand relativity. Relativity is a supplement to Newtonian physics, not a replacement to it. Any educated man who looks at your post will laugh out loud by your misconceptions that things can't be proven mathematically if they look appear certain way to our vantage point. Relativity itself was proven mathematically and you can prove which relativity is correct mathematically as well.
Why did Maimonities say things about medicine that was disproven?
--- End quote ---
What are you referring to? Maimonedes himself says his advice on medicine and diet will not apply to later generations who have bad diets to begin with. he said it applies for his time.
Nothing in Torah has been disproven or will ever be. It's usually just been misunderstood by people who want make themselves feel smart so they don't give the Torah view the respect it deserves which is exactly what is going on here.
Lubab:
Maybe they didn't creat electricity because it wasn't the appropriate time for that. However they were able to manipulate the physical world in ways we ourselves still dont' know how. For instance, every person who spoke in the Talmud was able to rasie the dead. Do we know how to do that today? I think not.
Rabbi Yochanan was able to get vinegar to burn. They knew how to use Hashem's name to fly and do all other kinds of miracles. So I assume electricity would've been small potatoes for them.
You make claims of "mistakes" by them. But instaed of asking a competent Rabbi how to resolve what they say with modern science, you'd prefer to label them "mistakes" and be done with it. Your faith in the sages of Israel is lacking in many respects and this is a problem.
Muck DeFuslims:
Whoa, whoa, whoa.
This is getting a little bizarre.
Lubab states:
"For instance, every person who spoke in the Talmud was able to rasie the dead."
"They knew how to use Hashem's name to fly and do all other kinds of miracles."
Tell me more about raising the dead, flying just by using Hahem's name, and these other miracles.
I'm a skeptic.
And I still believe the Earth is orbiting the Sun and that this is an observable, objective reality that can be and has been observed from other points in space.
Also, earlier in this thread Mifletzet states: "Otherwise Einstein's disciple Lincoln Barnett would never dare to say that "We cannot feel our motion through space - nor has any experiment actually proven that the Earth is in motion".
If you know of such an experiment, then you have disproved Relativity, and you get the Nobel Prize and $$$$!"
Are you saying that an experiment proving the Earth is in fact in motion would invalidate Relativity ? Sorry, that's rubbish.
The fact that we can't feel the motion of the Earth doesn't disprove Relativity. It proves it.
Even if you want to debate whether the Earth orbits the Sun or vice versa, surely you can't deny that the Earth is rotating on it's axis. We can't feel that motion either but it surely is ocurring at a speed of hundreds of miles an hour. This doesn't disprove Relativity, on the contrary, it proves it.
In any event, Lubab, I'd like to know more about raising the dead and flying.
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