Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
To risk life, limb & shabbos.....for a Haitian Hamitic ingrate?!
wonga66:
I am pretty sure that the Halacha is that a Jew can be mechalel shabbos in a gentile country to save a goy if he is the only one around who can administer help and there are goyim watching, as refraining from helping would cause animosity.
But for these admirable Haredi Zaka fellows to voluntarily fly out from Eretz Yisrael risking their lives and even break shabbos for Negroidal gentile cannabalistic zombie/voodoo worshipping ingrates...?!
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/135547
To some this may be a Kiddush Hashem. But there's also a risk of a Chillul Hashem.
Raulmarrio2000:
To save a life is correct, whether the nations are watching or not. The issue about a Gentile watching was for the past when nearly all Gentiles were at war with Israel. When there are others who can do the rescue, perhaps it would be better for Jews to stay at home and pray. Perhaps Jewish prayers keeping the Shabbat would more effective than actually going to the area, where there are already a lot of Gentiles helping, but..... remember that most Israelis break Shabbat for much less than a disaster.
wonga66:
The rabbonon may have qualified the halacho l'ma'aseh today, but I am pretty sure that to break shabbos to save a gentile life is, in ideal d'Oraiso terms, prohibited. The concepts of pikuach nefesh, sakonos nefoshos and putting oneself in physical danger or considerable risk for a goy, may not even apply.
Needlessly to say, this runs totally contrary to the modern egaliatarian humanist mindset, and is considered unacceptable to even many Orthodox, it running against human nature.
But the Torah is not human, and part of the test is that since Matan Torah, there are now two species of human beings on Earth: the Jewish Human and the Gentile Human, and the continued existence of the universe depends on that separateness and distinction being maintained, even if unpleasant.
Once it becomes blurred, there's usually a nasty bodycount on both sides!
Can someone elicit a definitive Kahanist Halachic answer from the (former?) Kahanist Minhag Eretz Yisrael 'posek' R.David Bar Chayim on this subject, as since the kitniyos "scandal", he seems to be moribund.
Masha:
--- Quote from: wonga66 on January 16, 2010, 05:29:13 PM ---The rabbonon may have qualified the halacho l'ma'aseh today, but I am pretty sure that to break shabbos to save a gentile life is, in ideal d'Oraiso terms, prohibited. The concepts of pikuach nefesh, sakonos nefoshos and putting oneself in physical danger or considerable risk for a goy, may not even apply.
Needlessly to say, this runs totally contrary to the modern egaliatarian humanist mindset, and is considered unacceptable to even many Orthodox.
Can someone elicit a definitive answer from the (former?) Kahanist Minhag Eretz Yisrael 'posek' R.David Bar Chayim on this subject, as since the kitniyos "scandal", he seems to be moribund.
--- End quote ---
Can't you ask Chaim this question?
wonga66:
In my experience, R.Bar Chayim no longer responds to Halachic questions, even on his site. Being now over 50, having come under scathing attack, and being an Australian, he may have withdrawn.
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