Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
What parts of Kabalah are off limits until age 40?
Ari Ben-Canaan:
Thank for the awesome explanation, it really puts things in a new perspective for me, which is exactly what I was looking for. I defiantly want to study Kabbalah some time in my life. I think I could start studying Kabbalah right now, but I like what I study now... and life is long. I favor speculating if the very Orthodox way of studying Kabbalah, although I have enjoyed wearing a red string on my left hand for inspirational reasons [once I tried it, the string came with a Hamsa I got for my Mom's purse], the steak and potatoes of real Judaism is what I desire most - in Kabbalah as well.
Thanks again!
muman613:
--- Quote from: Ariel Shayn on January 27, 2010, 02:34:31 PM ---Thank for the awesome explanation, it really puts things in a new perspective for me, which is exactly what I was looking for. I defiantly want to study Kabbalah some time in my life. I think I could start studying Kabbalah right now, but I like what I study now... and life is long. I favor speculating if the very Orthodox way of studying Kabbalah, although I have enjoyed wearing a red string on my left hand for inspirational reasons [once I tried it, the string came with a Hamsa I got for my Mom's purse], the steak and potatoes of real Judaism is what I desire most - in Kabbalah as well.
Thanks again!
--- End quote ---
Charms are nice but they should not be relied upon or worshipped. I carry a Hamsa on my keychain along with the Travellers Prayer... I have never had any desire to wear a red string though and I have no idea where this 'kabbalistic' idea comes from... Is it an authentic Jewish Kabbalah custom? I have never learned this...
http://www.aish.com/sp/k/48965011.html
--- Quote ---Is there anything of substance to this red thread business? Is there really such a thing as an "evil eye"?
There is absolutely no genuine kabbalistic source for wearing a red thread around one's wrist to ward off the "evil eye."
Firstly, there is absolutely no genuine kabbalistic source for wearing a red thread around one's wrist to ward off the "evil eye." While there exists such a practice amongst some devout Jews, it is not mentioned in any kabbalistic work.
Yes, there is a fleeting mention in the Talmud about the practice of tying a bundle of herbs or gems and wearing them in order to ward off the "evil eye." No special color, nor Rachel, nor even thread are mentioned. Also, the comment is an offhand remark concerning laws of Sabbath observance.
One of the late great scholars, the Debreczyner Rav, mentions it as a practice he saw in his father's home, but his extensive search could not find a written source for the practice.
The good news is that there is a clear and early source that mentions tying a red string to ward off an "evil eye" and that is in the Tosefta, an early Talmudic work (Shabbat, ch. 7-8). The bad news is that it clearly states that tying a red string around oneself is severely prohibited. It is characterized as "Darchei Emori," a worthless, superstitious practice, close to idol-worship.
Although later halachic literature implies that we may possibly not rule in accordance with this Tosefta, this still does not make this a commendable practice, but rather a tolerable one.
--- End quote ---
Ari Ben-Canaan:
--- Quote from: muman613 on January 27, 2010, 04:00:46 PM ---
--- Quote from: Ariel Shayn on January 27, 2010, 02:34:31 PM ---Thank for the awesome explanation, it really puts things in a new perspective for me, which is exactly what I was looking for. I defiantly want to study Kabbalah some time in my life. I think I could start studying Kabbalah right now, but I like what I study now... and life is long. I favor speculating if the very Orthodox way of studying Kabbalah, although I have enjoyed wearing a red string on my left hand for inspirational reasons [once I tried it, the string came with a Hamsa I got for my Mom's purse], the steak and potatoes of real Judaism is what I desire most - in Kabbalah as well.
Thanks again!
--- End quote ---
Charms are nice but they should not be relied upon or worshipped. I carry a Hamsa on my keychain along with the Travellers Prayer... I have never had any desire to wear a red string though and I have no idea where this 'kabbalistic' idea comes from... Is it an authentic Jewish Kabbalah custom? I have never learned this...
http://www.aish.com/sp/k/48965011.html
--- Quote ---Is there anything of substance to this red thread business? Is there really such a thing as an "evil eye"?
There is absolutely no genuine kabbalistic source for wearing a red thread around one's wrist to ward off the "evil eye."
Firstly, there is absolutely no genuine kabbalistic source for wearing a red thread around one's wrist to ward off the "evil eye." While there exists such a practice amongst some devout Jews, it is not mentioned in any kabbalistic work.
Yes, there is a fleeting mention in the Talmud about the practice of tying a bundle of herbs or gems and wearing them in order to ward off the "evil eye." No special color, nor Rachel, nor even thread are mentioned. Also, the comment is an offhand remark concerning laws of Sabbath observance.
One of the late great scholars, the Debreczyner Rav, mentions it as a practice he saw in his father's home, but his extensive search could not find a written source for the practice.
The good news is that there is a clear and early source that mentions tying a red string to ward off an "evil eye" and that is in the Tosefta, an early Talmudic work (Shabbat, ch. 7-8). The bad news is that it clearly states that tying a red string around oneself is severely prohibited. It is characterized as "Darchei Emori," a worthless, superstitious practice, close to idol-worship.
Although later halachic literature implies that we may possibly not rule in accordance with this Tosefta, this still does not make this a commendable practice, but rather a tolerable one.
--- End quote ---
--- End quote ---
I had a discussion with my Torah study leader about the red string. I espoused I have no belief that the string has powers of any sort, aside from visually stimulating me in an inspiring way to act righteously. I understand how it is created, and I think red string has a beautiful We agreed that the kippah is similar; wearing a kippah does not endow a person with magic, although it has the ability to inspire a person who wears it.
I think, for me, it may be best to avoid wearing the red string if there is controversy around it, or at least until I am a better Talmud scholar myself. It was a fun thing to learn about.
rhayat1:
People will believe what they want, but the Zohar (though it cites ancient sources) is a forgery through and through. Yes, there certainly was mysticism among ancient Jews but there is no evidence that the Zohar (or Bahir) represent ancient Jewish mysticism. Not only that but many of the concepts expressed in the Zohar are contrary to traditional Jewish theology. What the Kabbalists have done, to defend their positions, is to claim that their books do not actually mean what they say. That there is some other, deeper, meaning. As a result, some Kabbalistic schools have actually brought themselves into conformity with traditional Judaism. Other schools simply "spiritualized" their original belief - that God is a physical entity - so that he acquired 248 "spiritual" limbs etc. A prime example of this is "Shene Luhoth haberith" by Avraham haLewi Horowitz. I think his words are worthy of a separate post.
As for the Zohar being a forgery, the evidence is so abundant that it's a wonder anybody could believe otherwise - and I'd be happy to list such evidence if anybody's interested.
muman613:
I do not believe that the Zohar is a forgery.
But you are entitled to believe as you do. Nobody has to believe the mystical texts as a simple Jew is fine just understanding the Pshat/Simple meaning.
There is ample evidence that Kabbalah and mystical secrets have been passed down from generation to generation and the Torah itself has insight into some of these ideas. There is no way you will convince me that Kabbalah is not authentic Judaism and as I said, I have never learned any Kabbalah which violates any principles of basic Judaism 101.
There is some question about the authorship of the Zohar, this is true, but the sources for it predates the time that it was written.
Please point out the problems you see with the Zohar... I will attempt to answer the questions with what resources I have...
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