Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
haMmafteah - that the Zohar is a forgery
GoIsraelGo!:
Rahyat1...Welcome to our Great Forum!
Your english and grammer is perfect ....nice!
Shalom - Dox
rhayat1:
--- Quote from: Republicandox on January 31, 2010, 06:30:10 PM ---Rahyat1...Welcome to our Great Forum!
Your english and grammer is perfect ....nice!
Shalom - Dox
--- End quote ---
Thank you!
Some more from Ribbi Ya'aqov 'Emdin:
"... and this is why they instituted the prayer of kol nidre (Part 3 pg. 255:a)". This was instituted by some of the later geonim, not the best of them. For behold, the last of the geonim in time, and the first in quality, no other than Rav Hai Gaon, warned not to say it...
"... as all that is on heaven and Earth, and Yonathan ben 'Uziel translated (Part 3 pg 257:a)". It is known what our sages said, at the beginning of Meghilla, that Yonathan ben 'Uziel did not translate the Writings.
"... in the last Haggadah of Rabbah bar bar Hanna (Tiqqunim 2:b)". Who is so blind as to not see this, that it is impossible that this could come from the mouth of Rishbi. From his soul - I wouldn't know.
"And there is honor of the created (?) (Tiqqunim 5:a)". This is a quote from the Semag (Sefer Miswoth Gadol, if I'm not mistaken, a much later rabbi).
"Furthermore the Qomes, it was instituted by the grammarians that it is a "tenua' gedhola" (Tiqqunim 7:b)". Also this statement testifies a clear testimony that this composition is not from the Tana Rishbi. For it is known that the "masters of diqduq (grammarians above) were very late. It is not even necessary to say not of the era of the tanaim but even the amuraim and geonim make no mention of them. But they appeared after the geonim. In the West (Morocco) arose the first pillar of diqduq, he was R. Yehuda Hayuj of Fez.
"And this is a secret of 'from potential to actuality' (min haKkoah el haPpo'al) (Tiqqunim 40:b)". This is a contemporary expression of the philosophers amongst us (it came into use only in the Middle Ages).
"explains the names of the vowel points according to mysticism (also in the introduction to this book) and also the names of the Ta'amim (musical notes of the Torah)". This is tradition going back to Moshe from Sinai... however, they were not called by their names and they were never known this way. They were not revealed, not to Tanaim and not to Amuraim. Never were such names used anywhere by those in the Talmud. Therefore we cannot attribute such hints, of which he spoke, to Rishbi the Tana.
"And 'ilath ha'iloth (many times all over the Zohar)". This expression is also brought in the introduction to the Zohar. It is used by the philosophers among us in our day. We do not find it used by our ancient sages, not in the Mishna, not in the Gemarra and not in the Midrashim (note: it was taken from Arabic in the Middle Ages).
"And your sign is 'Pituhe hotem' (Tiqqunim 135:b)". This is common on the lips of grammarians, who use it as a sign for the five "large" vowels - we do not find it anywhere else.
"The Speaking Form, the Growing Form, the Intellectual Form (Zohar Hadash 11:b)". These are secular expressions, not of Hazal. As for a Tana or Amura, this would be profane in their eyes.
"The Earth stood in its power and its nature (Zohar Hadash Part 1 37:b)". "Its nature (Tiv'ah) is found among the natural philosophers. It is not found among Hazal.
"Esau and Yishma'el...that they are at peace and we are subjugated amongst them in exile (Tiqqunim 9:a and 52:b). The kingdom of Yishmael was not known and had not spread out in the days of the Tanaim and the Amuraim for they were then a lowly kingdom. Small and depressed.
"Masters of the Jerusalem Talmud etc. 'we'al haTte'udah', this is the Jerusalem Talmud (Tiqqunim 9:a. Zohar Hadash Part 1 49:b)". This is clear proof that it was compiled after the Talmud.
"A donkey carrying books (Zohar Hadash Part 2 69:b)". This expression is not found in any book on Earth - except in the book "Hovoth haLlevavoth", in the chapter "Service of G-d" and he was a Spanish author.
"...and this is why the later day righteous lay two pair of tefillin (Tiqqune Zohar Hadash 69:b)". Behold this is strong proof that Tiqqune Zohar Hadash is a very late composition.
"They counted one who busies himself with gemarra as if he studied all of it (Zohar Hadash Part 2 78:b)". These are the words of Rabenu Tam in Tosaphoth ('Avodhah Zara 19:b)...
The above is only a sample from this chapter.
Ari Ben-Canaan:
--- Quote ---"Esau and Yishma'el...that they are at peace and we are subjugated amongst them in exile (Tiqqunim 9:a and 52:b). The kingdom of Yishmael was not known and had not spread out in the days of the Tanaim and the Amuraim for they were then a lowly kingdom. Small and depressed.
--- End quote ---
A lot of this stuff is simply over my head. This hear seems interesting to me, although I am not totally sure what it says!
Esau = Rome?
Ishmael = Islam?
I don't mean to go off topic, if I am going that way.
muman613:
--- Quote from: Ariel Shayn on February 01, 2010, 12:13:07 AM ---
--- Quote ---"Esau and Yishma'el...that they are at peace and we are subjugated amongst them in exile (Tiqqunim 9:a and 52:b). The kingdom of Yishmael was not known and had not spread out in the days of the Tanaim and the Amuraim for they were then a lowly kingdom. Small and depressed.
--- End quote ---
A lot of this stuff is simply over my head. This hear seems interesting to me, although I am not totally sure what it says!
Esau = Rome?
Ishmael = Islam?
I don't mean to go off topic, if I am going that way.
--- End quote ---
Yes, your understanding of the names Ishmael and Esau are correct... But that is not consequential to what he is saying... His point is that at the supposed time that Zohar was written the current understanding of these names was not developed. Although I don't know if this claim is exactly true. The Torah itself says that Ishmael will be a wild donkey of a man, and his descendants will be a thorn in the side of the Jewish people.
muman613:
http://www.chabad.org/kabbalah/article_cdo/aid/380312/jewish/The-Final-Battle-with-Ishmael.htm
Here is Chabads explanation of the Exile of Ishmael {the fourth and final exile of the Jewish people}
The Final Battle with Ishmael
By Pinchas Winston
The Midrash speaks of four exiles in advance of Mashiach's arrival and the Final Redemption: Babylonian, Median, Greek, and Roman (Bereishit Rabba 2:4). Yet the Zohar speaks of another aspect of exile at the End of Days:
...The descendents of Ishmael will go up at that time [End of Days] with the nations of the world against Jerusalem... (Zohar 1:119a)
There is a tradition that Ishmael will be the final extension of the Roman Exile. It will be with his descendants that the final generation of Jews before the redemption will have to contend. This is supported by the Midrash:
Israel will say to the king of the Arabs, "Take silver and gold and leave the Temple." The king of the Arabs will say, "You have nothing to do with this Temple. However, if you want, choose a sacrifice as you did in the past, and we will also offer a sacrifice, and with the one whose sacrifice is accepted, we will all become one people." The Jewish people will offer theirs, but it will not be accepted because the Satan will lay charges against them before The Holy One, Blessed is He. The descendents of Kedar will offer theirs, and it will be accepted.... At that time, the Arabs will say to Israel, "Come and believe in our faith," but Israel will answer, "We will kill or be killed, but we will not deny our belief!" At that time, swords will be drawn, bows will be strung and arrows will be sent, and many will fall... (Sefer Eliyahu, Pirkei Mashiach, p. 236)
Furthermore, says the Zohar:
[During the Resurrection of the Dead], many camps will arise in Land of the Galilee, because that is where Mashiach is going to be revealed, since it is part of Joseph's territory. It will be the first place to be destroyed. It will begin there ahead of all other places, and then spread to the nations... (Vayakhel 220a)
When the latest Intifadah began, one of the first places to be destroyed was the Tomb of Joseph. The barbaric destruction of this Jewish holy site caught the world's attention, though the damage could not be reversed.
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