Author Topic: Science Kills - US DARPA working on Biological Monsters... Evil!  (Read 1898 times)

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Offline muman613

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Science Kills - US DARPA working on Biological Monsters... Evil!
« on: February 08, 2010, 03:03:48 PM »
I dont like how this story sounds.... It sounds like American scientists have reached the ultimate level of Chutzpah and are now trying to bioengine organisms which will live forever and destroy their intended targets. A few years ago I would have discounted this as science-fiction, something we all watched on the big screen back in the 1980s called The Terminator, where in the future scientists bioengineer monsters which are designed to live forever and programmed to destroy their targets.

I admit that if our enemies are working on this technology it may be best that we excel at defeating it. But I believe that there are moral implications to what they are working on...



http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2010/02/pentagon-looks-to-breed-immortal-synthetic-organisms-molecular-kill-switch-included/

The Pentagon’s mad science arm may have come up with its most radical project yet. Darpa is looking to re-write the laws of evolution to the military’s advantage, creating “synthetic organisms” that can live forever — or can be killed with the flick of a molecular switch.

As part of its budget for the next year, Darpa is investing $6 million into a project called BioDesign, with the goal of eliminating “the randomness of natural evolutionary advancement.” The plan would assemble the latest bio-tech knowledge to come up with living, breathing creatures that are genetically engineered to “produce the intended biological effect.” Darpa wants the organisms to be fortified with molecules that bolster cell resistance to death, so that the lab-monsters can “ultimately be programmed to live indefinitely.”

Of course, Darpa’s got to prevent the super-species from being swayed to do enemy work — so they’ll encode loyalty right into DNA, by developing genetically programmed locks to create “tamper proof” cells. Plus, the synthetic organism will be traceable, using some kind of DNA manipulation, “similar to a serial number on a handgun.” And if that doesn’t work, don’t worry. In case Darpa’s plan somehow goes horribly awry, they’re also tossing in a last-resort, genetically-coded kill switch:

    Develop strategies to create a synthetic organism “self-destruct” option to be implemented upon nefarious removal of organism.

The project comes as Darpa also plans to throw $20 million into a new synthetic biology program, and $7.5 million into “increasing by several decades the speed with which we sequence, analyze and functionally edit cellular genomes.”

Of course, Darpa’s up against some vexing, fundamental laws of nature — not to mention bioethics — as they embark on the lab beast program. First, they might want to rethink the idea of evolution as a random series of events, says NYU biology professor David Fitch. “Evolution by selection is nota random process at all, and is actually a hugely efficient design algorithm used extensively in computation and engineering,” he e-mails Danger Room.

Even if Darpa manages to overcome the inherent intelligence of evolutionary processes, overcoming inevitable death can be tricky. Just ask all the other research teams who’ve made stabs at it, trying everything from cell starvation to hormone treatments. Gene therapy, where artificial genes are inserted into an organism to boost cell life, are the latest and greatest in life-extension science, but they’ve only been proven to extend lifespan by 20 percent in rats.

But suppose gene therapy makes major strides, and Darpa does manage to get the evolutionary science right. They’ll also have a major ethical hurdle to jump. Synthetic biology researchers are already facing the same questions, as a 2009 summary from the Synthetic Biology Project reports:

    The concern that humans might be overreaching when we create organisms that never before existed can be a safety concern, but it also returns us to disagreements about what is our proper role in the natural world (a debate largely about non-physical harms or harms to well-being).

Even expert molecular geneticists don’t know what to make of the project. Either that, or they’re scared Darpa might sic a bio-bot on them. “I would love to comment, but unfortunately Darpa has installed a kill switch in me,” one unnamed expert tells Danger Room.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
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Offline New Yorker

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Re: Science Kills - US DARPA working on Biological Monsters... Evil!
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2010, 03:08:41 PM »


Frightening!  :o

Sounds like the movie Bladerunner!
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Offline muman613

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Re: Science Kills - US DARPA working on Biological Monsters... Evil!
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2010, 03:09:42 PM »


Frightening!  :o

Sounds like the movie Bladerunner!

That is still my FAVORITE movie of all times... I have seen Bladerunner about 20 times... Have it in several versions, including directors cut, on DVD...

But in Bladerunner all the Replicants had pre-programmed death dates... And they were seeking their creator in order to extend their lives... Also the replicants were originally designed for labor or recreation.


You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline angryChineseKahanist

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Re: Science Kills - US DARPA working on Biological Monsters... Evil!
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2010, 08:48:43 AM »

And if that fails, there's a cheaper solution.
A very small book of less than 50 pages called the Communist Manifesto which King Obama is currently working on.
He already checked off 6 or 7 of the 10 commandments.
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Offline MasterWolf1

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Re: Science Kills - US DARPA working on Biological Monsters... Evil!
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2010, 08:51:14 AM »
My bad! I thought you were talking about Rosie O'Donuts at a buffet line!
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Offline mord

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Re: Science Kills - US DARPA working on Biological Monsters... Evil!
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2010, 09:39:05 AM »
My bad! I thought you were talking about Rosie O'Donuts at a buffet line!
:::D :::D :::D :::D and Chuckie Schumer seeing t.v. cameras speaking of buffet lines you can add ackerman :laugh: :laugh:
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Offline HiWarp

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Re: Science Kills - US DARPA working on Biological Monsters... Evil!
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2010, 11:23:56 AM »
My bad! I thought you were talking about Rosie O'Donuts at a buffet line!
:::D :::D :::D :::D and Chuckie Schumer seeing t.v. cameras speaking of buffet lines you can add ackerman :laugh: :laugh:

Don't joke about that Mord. Anyone getting in the way of Chuckie when he's trying to get in front of a camera risks serious injury and possibly death. It's not a laughing matter.
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Offline rhayat1

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Re: Science Kills - US DARPA working on Biological Monsters... Evil!
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2010, 11:40:25 AM »


Frightening!  :o

Sounds like the movie Bladerunner!

At first glance, I read that "bladder-runner" and was wondering what kind of movie would cause people to frequently run for the bathroom .

I'm also wondering if the sum six million is random or somehow based on the old series "six million dollar man".

I'm also wondering why they're spending all this money to defend a nation that, at the same time, is inviting countless hordes to come in and replace the native population.

Offline muman613

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Re: Science Kills - US DARPA working on Biological Monsters... Evil!
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2010, 01:25:30 PM »


Frightening!  :o

Sounds like the movie Bladerunner!

At first glance, I read that "bladder-runner" and was wondering what kind of movie would cause people to frequently run for the bathroom .

I'm also wondering if the sum six million is random or somehow based on the old series "six million dollar man".

I'm also wondering why they're spending all this money to defend a nation that, at the same time, is inviting countless hordes to come in and replace the native population.


Does this bring back memories?

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline pennyjangle

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Re: Science Kills - US DARPA working on Biological Monsters... Evil!
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2010, 03:15:51 PM »
Scientists trying to play GOD!  >:(
Hasta La Vista Baby!

Offline ~Hanna~

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Re: Science Kills - US DARPA working on Biological Monsters... Evil!
« Reply #10 on: February 09, 2010, 04:28:46 PM »
It also sounds like "the day the earth stood still" with Keanu Reeves, I saw that 3 or 4 times now. They had biorobotics, or whatever you call them....and the earth WAS going to be destroyed. Nanorobots...maybe that is it.
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Offline HiWarp

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Re: Science Kills - US DARPA working on Biological Monsters... Evil!
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2010, 02:33:37 PM »


Frightening!  :o

Sounds like the movie Bladerunner!

At first glance, I read that "bladder-runner" and was wondering what kind of movie would cause people to frequently run for the bathroom .

I'm also wondering if the sum six million is random or somehow based on the old series "six million dollar man".

I'm also wondering why they're spending all this money to defend a nation that, at the same time, is inviting countless hordes to come in and replace the native population.


Does this bring back memories?



Ta da da daaaa...ta dadadada da da da daaaa. Yeah, it brings back memories. I wonder what Oscar Goldman is doing today.
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when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”
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Offline Rubystars

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Re: Science Kills - US DARPA working on Biological Monsters... Evil!
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2010, 06:33:20 PM »
You really are frightened of science Muman. With the attitude that "Science kills" you should turn off your computer, go outside and live in a cave or hole in the ground, eat bugs (I think certain grasshoppers are kosher, right?) and berries and drink rain or river water. When you get Giardia from the river water, don't come asking for Flagyl because that was made by science too.

Without science most of us wouldn't be alive anyway. Imagine how many women used to die in childbirth, killing themselves and their babies! Imagine how many premature or disabled babies would have died! Imagine how many people would have died from diseases or accidents which can now be helped through science!

One of the reasons I like Jewish people is their contributions to science. It's too bad some are like you and live in fear of the very thing which makes life livable these days.

Offline New Yorker

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Re: Science Kills - US DARPA working on Biological Monsters... Evil!
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2010, 06:52:45 PM »
You really are frightened of science Muman. With the attitude that "Science kills" you should turn off your computer, go outside and live in a cave or hole in the ground, eat bugs (I think certain grasshoppers are kosher, right?) and berries and drink rain or river water. When you get Giardia from the river water, don't come asking for Flagyl because that was made by science too.

Without science most of us wouldn't be alive anyway. Imagine how many women used to die in childbirth, killing themselves and their babies! Imagine how many premature or disabled babies would have died! Imagine how many people would have died from diseases or accidents which can now be helped through science!

One of the reasons I like Jewish people is their contributions to science. It's too bad some are like you and live in fear of the very thing which makes life livable these days.

Science is fantastic, and a huge amount of our efforts should be channeled to it's progress. That said, this thing is very, very, creepy, synthetic life? Even the developers are scared of it, that's why they felt the need to engineer a "Death Switch", well the engineers can't get a Toyota's gas pedal right, you trust that these guys will get the "Death Switch" for their biological abomination to work 100%?
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Offline muman613

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Re: Science Kills - US DARPA working on Biological Monsters... Evil!
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2010, 06:52:51 PM »
You really are frightened of science Muman. With the attitude that "Science kills" you should turn off your computer, go outside and live in a cave or hole in the ground, eat bugs (I think certain grasshoppers are kosher, right?) and berries and drink rain or river water. When you get Giardia from the river water, don't come asking for Flagyl because that was made by science too.

Without science most of us wouldn't be alive anyway. Imagine how many women used to die in childbirth, killing themselves and their babies! Imagine how many premature or disabled babies would have died! Imagine how many people would have died from diseases or accidents which can now be helped through science!

One of the reasons I like Jewish people is their contributions to science. It's too bad some are like you and live in fear of the very thing which makes life livable these days.
RS, What kind of response is this?

Me, afraid of science? I dont think so... I am a software engineer and work in engineering new hardware for the video industry. The point I make in posting this is that the SCIENTISTS ARE TRYING TO PLAY G-D here... If they are attempting to meddle with the evolution of species I think this is IMMORAL to the very core. If you support this kind of SCIENCE I think you have severe moral issues.

Science is a tool which can be used for good or for evil. I believe that creating organisms which are programmed to kill and have kill-switches installed are immoral and unethical.

Why you feel a need to belittle me over this is an issue you should deal with.

« Last Edit: February 10, 2010, 07:22:23 PM by muman613 »
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Science Kills - US DARPA working on Biological Monsters... Evil!
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2010, 07:51:48 PM »
It would be a good thing though to do research into how we can postpone and/or defeat aging and death.

Offline muman613

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Re: Science Kills - US DARPA working on Biological Monsters... Evil!
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2010, 07:59:44 PM »
It would be a good thing though to do research into how we can postpone and/or defeat aging and death.

Dont you think that death was created for a reason? I believe that if man could live forever we would be completely immoral and degenerate. Read Genesis again and understand that Hashem created death for a purpose. In the time of Moshiach we will all live forever. If we attempt to become G-dlike we may end up destroying ourselves {see what happened at the tower of Babel}.

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Rubystars

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Re: Science Kills - US DARPA working on Biological Monsters... Evil!
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2010, 08:04:00 PM »
RS, What kind of response is this?

Me, afraid of science? I dont think so...

You were also afraid of the particle collider.

Quote
I am a software engineer and work in engineering new hardware for the video industry. The point I make in posting this is that the SCIENTISTS ARE TRYING TO PLAY G-D here... If they are attempting to meddle with the evolution of species I think this is IMMORAL to the very core. If you support this kind of SCIENCE I think you have severe moral issues.

I don't know enough about these particular machines/organisms yet. The article provided very scant information about what exactly they are.

However, if your problem with it is that they're meddling with the evolution of species, then I don't agree with you. Human beings have been meddling with the evolution of species for thousands of years, through breeding various animals and plants. Most of this meddling has been beneficial to us. Corn in particular is very different from its wild relative. Fruits instead of being small and sour/bitter/astringent are large and sweet. Cattle are not the same as the ancient Aurochs.

I think what frightens people is that the modern methods of gene manipulation are much faster and more drastic than what we've been able to accomplish in the past.

Quote
Science is a tool which can be used for good or for evil.

Exactly! So what's with making a thread titled "Science kills" you also had to throw in "biological monsters" and "Evil!". We don't even know much about them yet how can we know if it's good or bad. Do you want the US military to be able to protect us from foreign enemies?

Quote
I believe that creating organisms which are programmed to kill and have kill-switches installed are immoral and unethical.

I think that if it involves human beings with built-in kill switches, that would be very bad, but if it involves animals? Would that change the picture? What if it's basically just a robot with a little bit of tissue inside it to help it perform tasks more efficiently? If they can learn to preserve cells indefinitely, then that could lead to many things that would be good for everyone. Imagine if donated organs could be kept indefinitely fresh until a recipient was ready, or if diseases associated with aging could be halted?

Quote
Why you feel a need to belittle me over this is an issue you should deal with.

I do apologize for seeming to belittle you. That wasn't right of me.

It's just that I don't get why you seem to be so scared of advances. I don't know whether this is good or bad yet. Certainly some things that science is doing I think are bad, but this article has so little information that we don't even know what these are yet.

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Science Kills - US DARPA working on Biological Monsters... Evil!
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2010, 08:08:22 PM »
Dont you think that death was created for a reason? I believe that if man could live forever we would be completely immoral and degenerate. Read Genesis again and understand that Hashem created death for a purpose. In the time of Moshiach we will all live forever. If we attempt to become G-dlike we may end up destroying ourselves {see what happened at the tower of Babel}.
I don't think we can prevent death. But why is postponing it and improving quality of life not a laudable, G-dly goal? At one time, humans lived to be over 900 years. Why wouldn't it be a holy work to recreate that and end so much suffering (at least for good people)?

BTW, Christians believe that G-d didn't "create" death as part of his original plan, but that it is a result of the entrance of sin into the world.

Offline muman613

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Re: Science Kills - US DARPA working on Biological Monsters... Evil!
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2010, 08:39:56 PM »
Dont you think that death was created for a reason? I believe that if man could live forever we would be completely immoral and degenerate. Read Genesis again and understand that Hashem created death for a purpose. In the time of Moshiach we will all live forever. If we attempt to become G-dlike we may end up destroying ourselves {see what happened at the tower of Babel}.
I don't think we can prevent death. But why is postponing it and improving quality of life not a laudable, G-dly goal? At one time, humans lived to be over 900 years. Why wouldn't it be a holy work to recreate that and end so much suffering (at least for good people)?

BTW, Christians believe that G-d didn't "create" death as part of his original plan, but that it is a result of the entrance of sin into the world.

I don't suggest that prolonging life is a bad thing... But Hashem decided that the result of the sin of the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil should be punished through death, and through mankind having to work for his living.

When mankind has rectified all of its issues it is believed that Hashem will reveal all knowledge and as a result all sickness and death will cease.

But we have digressed from the original topic... Is it correct for scientists to attempt to change the nature of life itself?

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Science Kills - US DARPA working on Biological Monsters... Evil!
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2010, 08:43:49 PM »
I don't suggest that prolonging life is a bad thing... But Hashem decided that the result of the sin of the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil should be punished through death, and through mankind having to work for his living.
Obviously. We are never going to undo that or conquer death. However, prolonging life (especially if the quality of life is maintained) is a noble goal, so long as no hideous, barbaric procedures are used in the process (like embryonic stem cells).

Offline Rubystars

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Re: Science Kills - US DARPA working on Biological Monsters... Evil!
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2010, 08:44:13 PM »
But we have digressed from the original topic... Is it correct for scientists to attempt to change the nature of life itself?

If God doesn't want people to discover something can't
God keep them from it? Of course I don't think all things that scientists do would be condoned by God, but knowledge itself is something we shouldn't be afraid to pursue. I feel that if God wants to hide knowledge that we will never find it.

Offline GoIsraelGo!

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Re: Science Kills - US DARPA working on Biological Monsters... Evil!
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2010, 08:46:08 PM »
In all honesty I am no expert on Science...so I won't comment on that.

It is my opinion that all of you on this tread, are the most amazing and intelligent people that I have ever met.
You all bring up excellent arguments and if there is no resolve, you all remain friends and move on.

You guy's truly are the best!


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Offline muman613

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Re: Science Kills - US DARPA working on Biological Monsters... Evil!
« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2010, 08:48:18 PM »
Regarding the story of Adam in the Garden and Hashems will lets look at what Chabad explains :

http://www.chabad.org/kabbalah/article_cdo/aid/379293/jewish/Adams-Super-Consciousness.htm

Quote
The Tree of Life

Adam and Eve were supposed to live forever. They were told not to taste the Tree of Knowledge so that they should not die. But now they would have to die.

Because they had brought evil into themselves, they had to be removed from the garden lest they partake of the tree of life and live forever, perpetuating the evil they had consumed.

The Tree of Life exists beyond the source of death. Were they to partake of this light they would live forever, notwithstanding their impure state. This could not be, for it would be contrary to the divine plan in which death is eventually, in the messianic age, swallowed forever.

In between the beginning and the end is the time of separating (in Hebrew, "birur"). Good and evil must be identified and separated until all wickedness will dissolve like smoke. The separation is achieved through the light of chochma, wisdom. Although chochma is from the right side, the side of chesed, here it acts in the capacity of din, judgment. (Indeed chochma is called din, contrary to the opinion of the early Kabbalists who thought that chochma is entirely chesed, since it is the source of chesed. But the "tailor", referring to the commentary of Rabbi Judah son of Jacob Chayat, meaning "tailor", on Sefer Marechet HaElokut revealed that chochma contains din as well, and the Arizal praised him for it.)

To this end Adam is banished from the Garden, to work the ground whence he was taken - to engage in the work of separation, by planting, plowing, reaping and then eating the food and elevating it by using its energy for holiness. In this way, Adam and his descendants separate the sparks of goodness that are scattered throughout the earthly reality and elevate them.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Ari Ben-Canaan

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Re: Science Kills - US DARPA working on Biological Monsters... Evil!
« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2010, 11:05:58 PM »


Frightening!  :o

Sounds like the movie Bladerunner!

That is still my FAVORITE movie of all times... I have seen Bladerunner about 20 times... Have it in several versions, including directors cut, on DVD...

But in Bladerunner all the Replicants had pre-programmed death dates... And they were seeking their creator in order to extend their lives... Also the replicants were originally designed for labor or recreation.




Excellent choice of favorite movie... might be my favorite one, or at least the most re-re-re-watchable movie I know of.

Do you like, William Gibson, of Neuromancer fame?
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