Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Neanderthal converts?
muman613:
--- Quote from: Cato the Elder on February 18, 2010, 09:39:50 AM ---Humans did not hunt neanderthals... I fail to see your comparison.
Probably humans both hunted and bred with Neanderthals. Just as they did with the bushmen in southern Africa (and higher up, which is how the Bantu gained malaria resistance which allowed them to migrate south). Also, cannibalism was/is widespread among humans still, most recently having saved the lines of many plane crash survivors in the Andes.
I also believe they are extinct for a reason... Hashem has no need for this species so it was made extinct...
Muman, I respect your knowledge and really do not wish to be provocative in saying this, but how can you be confident about how or why G-d behaved the way he did? I really am curious when there are so many aspects of Jewish history that are inexplicably horrifying.
--- End quote ---
Cato,
Jews believe that everything , the good and the bad, come from Hashem. We believe that the bad which has befallen the Jewish people was due to our not behaving as Hashem commanded. The Torah even lists many curses which will fall upon the Jewish people should we not follow the Torah. Our Rabbis often point out that virtually every curse listed in the Torah has come true.
You may be shocked to know that the religious Jews also see that events like the destruction of the Temples, the expulsion from the Holy Land, and the Pogroms and the Holocaust all happened because Hashem was showing us that he loves us. The first Temple was destroyed, according to the Talmud, because the Jews engaged in the three cardinal sins... The second Temple was destroyed because the Jewish people engaged in Sinat Chinum {Baseless Hatred}...
So I see that everything which happens in this world is guided by Hashems loving kindness. There is a reason that people are dying, there is a reason people are suffering, and the reason is that Hashem is sending us signs.
This is a big topic and I hope you understand what I am saying. We do not believe in the Christian form of the devil. Hashem creates both good and evil. Monotheism means that there is only ONE force which controls the entire universe. To say that things can happen in the world without Hashems permission is to take away the awesome power of Hashem.
http://www.kiruv.com/TeachingMaterials/6ConstantMitzvot/6_Constant_Mitzvot_3_-_God_Is_One.asp
--- Quote ---EVEN DEATH CAN BRING YOU CLOSE TO G-d
The Talmud tells the amazing story of Rebbe Akiva. Almost 2,000 years ago, the Romans tried to obliterate Judaism and made the study of Torah illegal. Rebbe Akiva could not bear the idea of abandoning Torah, so he gathered together his disciples and taught them Torah.
The Romans arrested Rebbe Akiva and executed him by brutally tearing the skin off his body with iron forks. As he was being tortured, Rebbe Akiva joyously recited the Shema -- "Hear O Israel, the Lord our G-d, the Lord is One."
His bewildered students asked, "Rebbe, how can you praise G-d amidst such torture?"
Rebbe Akiva replied: "All my life I believed that a person has to give 100 percent to G-d. Now that I have the opportunity, I joyously perform it!"
Didn't Rebbe Akiva want to live? Certainly "dying" is not the goal of life! We seek to become closer to G-d -- and once you're gone, you can't achieve any more. It would seem that death is one aspect of life that moves us in the opposite direction. Everything else can be seen as a challenge, an opportunity, a way of getting closer to G-d. Except death. Death stops the growth process. You've only reached the level you've attained during your lifetime -- and that's it for eternity.
So if there's one thing a person should not want, it's death. That's why Rebbe Akiva's students were puzzled. They asked, "Rebbe, we understand the power of dying in sanctification of G-d's Name. But where does the joy come from? There's nothing left of you to grow!"
There's no question that Rebbe Akiva wanted to live, and that he appreciated life more than we ever will. Yet Rebbe Akiva was teaching his students that even though it seems death goes against the whole growth process, sacrificing even the growth process for G-d is in itself the highest level of growth! Are you willing to give up all those opportunities to come close to G-d simply because that's His will? This gets you as close as you can get. You're actually moving at hyperspeed in the right direction.
...
WITH G-d IS ONE, THERE'S NOTHING TO FEAR
In the afternoon service on Shabbat, we say, "You are one, and Your Name is one, and who is like Your people Israel." This prayer speaks about the End of Days, when the Jewish people will be united, working in harmony for one goal, and when all humanity will recognize that everything comes from G-d.
In daily life, we're often torn because one day we're moving in one direction, and the next day another. But how about when we see the singular purpose to everything? The prayer tells us the result of this exalted state is Menuchat Shalom -- total tranquility. Peace of mind.
We get caught off-guard with different challenges than we expected. That's when we start picking up the wrong messages. But if you know the truth, you won't fear any surprises. If you know that whatever "gets in your way" is all part of G-d's plan, then actually nothing can get in your way.
This outlook brings a deep sense of security. If you know that everything G-d sends is for your good, then there is nothing to fear.
King Solomon says there's only one thing to fear: Forgetting the oneness of G-d.
The Shabbat prayer also speaks about Menuchat Emet V'emunah -- true peace and security. On Shabbat, we step back from our daily efforts to shape the world -- and instead let things flow in their natural order. That is when we most intensely perceive that G-d created the world and there is one purpose to everything.
The clarity of "G-d is one" gives us this peace of mind seven days a week. Of course, we still have to struggle to figure out what's right, and then we have to find the strength to stand up for that. But at least we don't feel like we're fighting against some outside force. Your goals can never get derailed because "things didn't work out." There's simply no such thing. Difficulties are merely a new challenge in your journey toward perfection.
The only possible setback is self-imposed -- by not focusing on how the challenges are sent by G-d to guide us.
So why is "G-d is one" so important? Because in reality, there is nothing else. G-d is everything.
--- End quote ---
http://www.torah.org/learning/ravfrand/5756/kisavo.html
--- Quote --- Linkage Between Sinas Chinom and Absence of Simcha [Between Needless Hatred and Absence of Joy]
At the end of the Tochacha [verses of rebuke in our Parsha], the pasuk [verse] says that these ninety-eight terrible curses come "as the result of your not having served the L-rd, your G-d, with joy and with good spirit (b'simcha u'vtuv leivav) when you had and abundance of everything" [Devorim 28:47]. This is an unbelievable statement. It seems harsh that such terrible curses should befall the Jewish people, just because people are lacking what seems to be a "hidur mitzvah" [glorification of a mitzvah, which is not absolutely necessary] of observing commandments in a state of joy.
Moreover, there is another difficulty: Our Sages tell us that the Tochacha that we find at the end of Sefer Vayikra [Leviticus] corresponded historically to the events of the First Temple period; this Tochacha -- in Parshas Ki Savo -- is referring to the period leading up to the destruction of the Second Temple. We all know that the Sages tell us that the reason the Second Beis HaMikdash was destroyed was because of baseless hatred (sin'as chinam). So these two teachings of Chaza"l, our Sages, seem contradictory. What was the reason for the destruction of the second Temple -- Was it 'baseless hatred' or was it 'failure to serve G-d with joy'?
Perhaps there is no contradiction. The Torah is referring to the underlying cause of the churban Bayis Sheni [destruction of the Second Temple]. The underlying cause of the churban Bayis Sheni was lack of Simcha [joy]. Failure to serve G-d with joy, in turn, leads to Sinas Chinam.
What does this mean? Chaza"l say that Talmidei Chachomim [scholars] increase peace in the world. How is this done? I once saw, written in the name of Rav Chatzkel Abramsky, z"tl, that a person who is a Talmid Chachom, in the real sense of the word, is a person who is at peace with himself. He is happy and satisfied with what he is accomplishing in life. As a result, he exudes his inner happiness and inner peace and that has an effect on other people.
--- End quote ---
PS: RE: cannibalism.... There is a difference between people having to eat each other due to a plane crash and a society which is based on the practice of eating other members of your species.
Cato:
Muman, thank you for the explanation. I greatly appreciate your writings.
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: rhayat1 on February 18, 2010, 06:59:37 AM ---
--- Quote from: muman613 on February 17, 2010, 09:01:10 PM ---
--- Quote from: rhayat1 on February 17, 2010, 08:30:47 PM ---
--- Quote from: muman613 on February 17, 2010, 03:19:23 PM ---I also believe they are extinct for a reason... Hashem has no need for this species so it was made extinct...
--- End quote ---
Oh great! That's just wonderful. Then I'm getting my rifle and going Spotted Owl hunting. After they're all dead, I just say, "Hashem had no need for that species so it was made extinct".
--- End quote ---
Humans did not hunt neanderthals... I fail to see your comparison.
--- End quote ---
Extinct is extinct - also, it is quite possible that modern humans did hunt Neanderthals. That modern Humans lead to the extinction of the Neanderthals, through our actions, is almost a certainty.
--- End quote ---
There is no scientific evidence of this at all. From where do you get it? For a while people thought that neanderthals died out due to failure to compete technologically (ie their tools weren't as advanced or their brainpower wasn't as flexible etc), but it turns out this is not really true, as their tools were comparatively advanced. There is no scientific consensus on how they died out, but I have not seen any credible sources claiming we killed them. Most theories are "competition" based. (ie resources, brain power, language abilities, efficiency, etc etc). But they have not been established.
--- Quote ---Incidentally, there is no clear morphological distinction between "modern humans" and Neanderthals. What one poster wrote in jest ("are they really extinct?") could be a serious question.
--- End quote ---
No, they are genetically and biochemically distinct. There was little to NO admixture in the genes over the course of time that they were contemporaneous with the homo sapiens. They are classed into Homo Neanderthalensis, which is a different species than homo sapiens. The humans of today are "Homo Sapiens sapiens" which is the sapiens subspecies of homo sapiens. There is a minority view among the scholars that neanderthals were a different subspecies of homo sapiens, ie they should be called homo sapiens neanderthalensis, but this contradicts the more recent mitochondrial DNA studies, which caused this view to lose support.
GoIsraelGo!:
I watched a documentary on this, and one theory was they abandonded their babies. When Winter came and food was scarce, the group would move forward and leave the weak ones, or those less likely to survive behind.
That would include their babies, the elderly, or anyone in the clan that was sick.
With that type of practise, and their climate, I can see why they died out.
One other reason may be they did not produce enough young, and what young were born, rarely survived.
All of the above mentioned may have attributed to their extinction.
TruthSpreader:
--- Quote from: rhayat1 on February 17, 2010, 01:56:27 PM ---But they were Human - at least according to many scientific opinions. Just not the same kind of Human as us.
--- End quote ---
They were human but not as advanced as modern day humans. (those that actually are human)
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version