Author Topic: Question I asked chaim I hope someone can point out mymistakes I hope Im wrong  (Read 2757 times)

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Offline muman613

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Thank you so much please do pray for me.

same here id prob become a heratic

but here a question this happened because G-d said your sacrifices are an abomination to me because the Jews have baseless hatred

so do you think g-d even  wants our prayers ?   what makes us different then the Jews then? and after all that has happened what could g-d possibly do to make jews repent after the crusades inquisitions programs holocausts and itifatas ? there really is nothing else g-d can throw at us. burn us gas us knife us  take our land away we are still the same sinners evidently . So what can g-d do?

You must not take other Jews sins on yourself so literally. We are held accountable for our fellows sins to a degree. But we are also merited to a degree for the great good that we do. We don't know the positive energy of a good deed, or a mitzvah, or restraining from doing something we should not do... We dont know because our limited understanding...

How do we know that Hashem has not turned away from us? Is this what you are asking me? I can answer this question easily because the Torah tells us point blank what will happen to us... You know about the Tochacha, or the Rebukes, don't you? I will repeat that here and then explain to you why we know that he is listening to our prayers....



http://www.torah.org/learning/ravfrand/5756/kisavo.html
Rav Frand
Rabbi Frand on Parashat Ki Savo

    These divrei Torah were adapted from the hashkafa portion of Rabbi Yissochar Frand's Commuter Chavrusah Torah Tapes on the weekly Torah portion: Tape# 66, Learning Hebrew. Good Shabbos!

Linkage Between Sinas Chinom and Absence of Simcha [Between Needless Hatred and Absence of Joy]

At the end of the Tochacha [verses of rebuke in our Parasha], the pasuk [verse] says that these ninety-eight terrible curses come "as the result of your not having served the L-rd, your G-d, with joy and with good spirit (b'simcha u'vtuv leivav) when you had and abundance of everything" [Devorim 28:47]. This is an unbelievable statement. It seems harsh that such terrible curses should befall the Jewish people, just because people are lacking what seems to be a "hidur mitzvah" [glorification of a mitzvah, which is not absolutely necessary] of observing commandments in a state of joy.

Moreover, there is another difficulty: Our Sages tell us that the Tochacha that we find at the end of Sefer Vayikra [Leviticus] corresponded historically to the events of the First Temple period; this Tochacha -- in Parashat Ki Savo -- is referring to the period leading up to the destruction of the Second Temple. We all know that the Sages tell us that the reason the Second Beis HaMikdash was destroyed was because of baseless hatred (sin'as chinam). So these two teachings of Chaza"l, our Sages, seem contradictory. What was the reason for the destruction of the second Temple -- Was it 'baseless hatred' or was it 'failure to serve G-d with joy'?

Perhaps there is no contradiction. The Torah is referring to the underlying cause of the churban Bayis Sheni [destruction of the Second Temple]. The underlying cause of the churban Bayis Sheni was lack of Simcha [joy]. Failure to serve G-d with joy, in turn, leads to Sinas Chinam.

What does this mean? Chaza"l say that Talmidei Chachomim [scholars] increase peace in the world. How is this done? I once saw, written in the name of Rav Chatzkel Abramsky, z"tl, that a person who is a Talmid Chachom, in the real sense of the word, is a person who is at peace with himself. He is happy and satisfied with what he is accomplishing in life. As a result, he exudes his inner happiness and inner peace and that has an effect on other people.

When a person is happy with himself, the feeling is contagious. He is willing to share that peace and that happiness. Those feelings affect other people. When a person is not happy with himself, he is miserable and he dislikes other people's happiness or success. Just as happiness rubs off, so too unhappiness rubs off and such a person cannot be satisfied with anyone else's success.

Chaza"l are telling us that because you were not happy with your lot and you were not b'simcha, therefore the consequence is baseless hatred. When a person is not happy with himself, he cannot tolerate others having any kind of happiness either.

There is thus no contradiction. The Second Temple was destroyed because of Sinas Chinom, but Sinas Chinom results from people who are not happy with themselves, are not b'simcha, and are not doing mitzvos b'simcha.

A Tale of Two Tochachas

Chaza"l in many places contrast the Tochacha of Parashat Ki Savo with that of Parashat Bechukosai [end of Leviticus, as above]. There is a significant difference between the two. At the end of the Tochacha of Parashat Bechukosai, the Torah ends the Curse with words of consolation: "And I will remember for them my covenant with Yacov, and even my covenant with Yitzchak, and even my covenant with Avraham I will remember, and I will remember the Land" [Vayikra 26:42].

The Tochacha in this week's Parashat Ki Savo, however, ends off on a terrible note. "The L-rd will return you to Egypt in boats along the path that I said to you 'You will no longer see it'; and you will be offered for sale to your enemies for slaves and handmaidens and no one will even want to buy you(v'ein koneh)." [Devorim 28:68]. That is how the Tochacha ends.

This is strange. At least the Tochacha in Bechukosai ends on a positive note. G-d promises us that He'll remember us. The Tochacha in Ki Savo ends with the ominous promise "You'll be sold and people won't even want to buy you".

The Zohar HaKodosh writes: "This question was asked in the study hall - how come the Tochacha in this week's Parasha has no consolation at the end and the Tochacha in the book of Vayikra has a consolation at the end?"

Rav Shimeon Bar Yochai provides an answer. The Tochacha in Sefer Vayikra needs a consolation, but the Tochacha of this week's Sedra needs no consolation, because included in the words of this week's Tochacha we already have the biggest comfort.

What is this big comfort? The Zohar HaKodosh explains that the Tochacha in Parashat Bechukosai contains the terrible words "And if you will walk with me out of happenstance (keri) so too I will walk with you in a wrath of happenstance (keri)" [Vayikra 26: 27-28]. My relationship to you, G-d tells the Jewish people, will be reciprocal. If you show no concern for My 'needs', I will show no concern for your needs. This week's portion, however, has the comforting expression "The L-rd will smite you..." [Devorim 28:27] - G-d Himself will smite you. This is this biggest consolation.

What is the Zohar HaKodosh saying? Rav Meir Bergman says that the worst thing that can happen to the Jewish people is that they can be left on their own. If Klal Yisroel, the Nation of Israel, acts as if the Ribono shel Olam [Master of the World] is not an integral part of their life, then the Ribono shel Olam's response will be "I'm going to step back and I'm going to let Teva (nature, statistics) take its course. Teva will take care of you." This is terrible. When that happens, the bond between G-d and Klal Yisroel is broken. There is no longer that closeness.

However, when the Ribono shel Olam 'smites,' even though it is a 'klap,' a smack - that in itself is a consolation, because at least we know that there is that relationship. Albeit it is a relationship of punishment, but it nevertheless is a relationship. Who feels more alone? The child who gets spanked when he misbehaves, or the child who has no father, Heaven forbid, to spank him?

The Tochacha in Bechukosai is the story of a people without a father, Heaven protect us; a father who stands in the background and lets whatever that happens, happen. The Tochacha of Ki Savo, however, is "The L-rd will Smite you" - I'll 'klap' you, but at least you will know that there is someone concerned and taking care of you. Hitting you, but taking care of you, nevertheless.

The Talmud says in Brachos [7b]. "A Psalm of David (Mizmor l'Dovid) when he was fleeing before Avsholom, his son". [Tehillim 3:1] The Gemara asks, should we call this a Mizmor (Psalm of praise) of Dovid? It should be called a Dirge of David (Kinah L'Dovid)! The Gemara answers that when G-d had prophesized to Dovid, "Behold I will raise up evil against you from the midst of your house" [Shmuel 2 12:11], Dovid feared that it would be a slave or a mamzer, but when he saw it was his own son, Avshalom, he was greatly relieved and said a Psalm to G-d.

Rabbi Yonason Eibshitz explains in his Yearos Dvash that for a slave or a Mamzer to rebel, that is Teva -- that's natural. The last thing Dovid HaMelech [The King] wanted was that his relationship with G-d would be a Teva relationship, subjecting him to the whims and statistics of nature. However, if his own son rebels, it is apparent that the punishment came from the 'Hand of G-d'. The fact that G-d Himself is doing the punishing, Himself, is the biggest consolation and source of comfort.

That is why Chaza"l tell us that the Tochacha of Parashat Ki Savo needed no consolation. Since it was clear that G-d, Himself, was administering the punishment, we need no consolation. The Tochacha of Vayikra, however, where G-d 'steps aside' and lets nature take its course, needs consolation.

The Kotzker Rebbe, zt"l, once said that the month in which the most tragedies befell the Jewish people is called, of all things, the month of "Av" (father). The Kotzker explained that from a smack, one can recognize a father. From our extraordinary national tragedies we have built-in consolation -- we know we still have a Father in Heaven who is concerned with our behavior.


You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline muman613

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Here is the 2nd Tochacha from Leviticus

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/e/et/et0326.htm


14 But if ye will not hearken unto Me, and will not do all these commandments; 
15 and if ye shall reject My statutes, and if your soul abhor Mine ordinances, so that ye will not do all My commandments, but break My covenant; 
16 I also will do this unto you: I will appoint terror over you, even consumption and fever, that shall make the eyes to fail, and the soul to languish; and ye shall sow your seed in vain, for your enemies shall eat it. 
17 And I will set My face against you, and ye shall be smitten before your enemies; they that hate you shall rule over you; and ye shall flee when none pursueth you. 
18 And if ye will not yet for these things hearken unto Me, then I will chastise you seven times more for your sins. 
19 And I will break the pride of your power; and I will make your heaven as iron, and your earth as brass. 
20 And your strength shall be spent in vain; for your land shall not yield her produce, neither shall the trees of the land yield their fruit. 
21 And if ye walk contrary unto Me, and will not hearken unto Me; I will bring seven times more plagues upon you according to your sins. 
22 And I will send the beast of the field among you, which shall rob you of your children, and destroy your cattle, and make you few in number; and your ways shall become desolate. 
23 And if in spite of these things ye will not be corrected unto Me, but will walk contrary unto Me; 
24 then will I also walk contrary unto you; and I will smite you, even I, seven times for your sins. 
25 And I will bring a sword upon you, that shall execute the vengeance of the covenant; and ye shall be gathered together within your cities; and I will send the pestilence among you; and ye shall be delivered into the hand of the enemy. 
26 When I break your staff of bread, ten women shall bake your bread in one oven, and they shall deliver your bread again by weight; and ye shall eat, and not be satisfied. {S} 
27 And if ye will not for all this hearken unto Me, but walk contrary unto Me; 
28 then I will walk contrary unto you in fury; and I also will chastise you seven times for your sins. 
29 And ye shall eat the flesh of your sons, and the flesh of your daughters shall ye eat. 
30 And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your sun-pillars, and cast your carcasses upon the carcasses of your idols; and My soul shall abhor you. 
31 And I will make your cities a waste, and will bring your sanctuaries unto desolation, and I will not smell the savour of your sweet odours. 
32 And I will bring the land into desolation; and your enemies that dwell therein shall be astonished at it. 
33 And you will I scatter among the nations, and I will draw out the sword after you; and your land shall be a desolation, and your cities shall be a waste.
34 Then shall the land be paid her sabbaths, as long as it lieth desolate, and ye are in your enemies' land; even then shall the land rest, and repay her sabbaths. 
35 As long as it lieth desolate it shall have rest; even the rest which it had not in your sabbaths, when ye dwelt upon it. 
36 And as for them that are left of you, I will send a faintness into their heart in the lands of their enemies; and the sound of a driven leaf shall chase them; and they shall flee, as one fleeth from the sword; and they shall fall when none pursueth. 
37 And they shall stumble one upon another, as it were before the sword, when none pursueth; and ye shall have no power to stand before your enemies. 
38 And ye shall perish among the nations, and the land of your enemies shall eat you up. 
39 And they that are left of you shall pine away in their iniquity in your enemies' lands; and also in the iniquities of their fathers shall they pine away with them. 
40 And they shall confess their iniquity, and the iniquity of their fathers, in their treachery which they committed against Me, and also that they have walked contrary unto Me. 
41 I also will walk contrary unto them, and bring them into the land of their enemies; if then perchance their uncircumcised heart be humbled, and they then be paid the punishment of their iniquity; 
42 then will I remember My covenant with Jacob, and also My covenant with Isaac, and also My covenant with Abraham will I remember; and I will remember the land. 
43 For the land shall lie forsaken without them, and shall be paid her sabbaths, while she lieth desolate without them; and they shall be paid the punishment of their iniquity; because, even because they rejected Mine ordinances, and their soul abhorred My statutes. 
44 And yet for all that, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not reject them, neither will I abhor them, to destroy them utterly, and to break My covenant with them; for I am the LORD their G-d. 
45 But I will for their sakes remember the covenant of their ancestors, whom I brought forth out of the land of Egypt in the sight of the nations, that I might be their G-d: I am the LORD. 
46 These are the statutes and ordinances and laws, which the LORD made between Him and the children of Israel in mount Sinai by the hand of Moses. {P}


You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Dr. Dan

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For 2000 yrs before the state of israel there were Jews who went through worst than us and they didn't give up even if they didn't see Moshiach.

For 2000 yrs Jews didn't practice Judaism just for Moshiach.

We are lucky who we are despite downturns because we are a unique people with a unique history persecuted or loved. I am proud to be part of a group of stubborn people. I am proud to be part of a Jewish people a unique special people even if most rebel against Gd and fellow righteous Jews. I am proud to be a Jew even if it seems Gd is frustrated or angry with them. I am even proud to be a Jew when it seems Gd has ignored us and given our enemies more power. I am proud to be a Jew when my fellow Jews act rebelliously and foolishly. That is because I am part of a unique people that are blessed that Gd talks to even if He is ignoring them. I would rather be a Jew even with your frustration (if not worse than that) than a happy comfortable gentile that has and will have a forgotten disappeared history (no offense to my righteous gentile friends).

I am proud to be a Jew because after all of these persecutions, my people still exist while the mightiest of all empires are all gone and disappeared in the most terrible ways along with their egos and evil deeds.

18chai, if I were you, I would be a proud Jew, even in dispair.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Zelhar

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18chai as an individual, you should do your best ans serve as example to others. But from your words, it seems you have it the other way around and because it seems to you that nobody is doing what he should or even try than why should you bother for yourself. This is indeed the attitude of losing faith and giving up.

Further more, you know that by living in the exile you are in fact yourself giving up the land of Israel to its entirety.

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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I am not as upset about it as you are... The history of the Jewish people is full of examples of Jews who did not want to heed the word of Hashem. Those Jews are lost to history and we are still here. You realize that 4/5 of the Jewish people in Egypt did not join us in the Exodus from Mitzrayim. You also know that many Jews remained in Bavel after the 2nd temple was built... Judaism calls all those who hear the word of G-d, as Moses commanded us through the Torah received at Mt Sinai...

Our history is not a pretty one but one which I am proud of regardless. There will always be back-stabbers and back-sliders and self-haters but there will always be a faithful remnant and Hashem will wait for them patiently. I am fully confident that the prophecies of our Holy Tanakh will be fufilled.

That's a good answer. G-d will judge these pathetic frauds and sissies. He doesn't need pansies like Lewinsky to carry out prophecy and fulfill destiny for the Chosen People.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Ive come to the conclusion that its not that land of Israel that will save us , but rather listening to the word of g-d and sorry most Israelis wont and if we become a mass movement it cannot be a religious one  or else there will be a civil war you know that , Kahane knew that so what good is it? how can g-d protect an irreligious movement?

I don't understand what you are saying.   You really think the American Jews are better off?   The Diaspora Jews are *MORE* likely to do teshuva than Israelis?   Are you kidding me?   The majority of American Jews are intermarried and assimilated and openly reject Judaism with contempt, and even those who are "religious" spurn the mitzvah to settle the land that G-d gave us.  (A different type of assimilation but still assimilation). And if more of them would wake up and come to Israel, the Israeli situation itself could be improved.   These types of "religious" Jews need to do serious teshuva.  As far as I'm concerned, we are all in the same boat and we need to do our best to make the most out of it.   But don't dare suggest that the cursed exile and its blindness is better off!   Hashem Yishmor!   If Israel is gone chas veshalom because too many good Jews stay back in exile, it will only be a matter of time before the pogroms and inquisitions begin in the exile countries.

Offline Dr. Dan

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Unfortunately, Jews in Galut have a tendency to want to be like non Jews....and that's what leads to the demise of the Jewish people.




Ive come to the conclusion that its not that land of Israel that will save us , but rather listening to the word of g-d and sorry most Israelis wont and if we become a mass movement it cannot be a religious one  or else there will be a civil war you know that , Kahane knew that so what good is it? how can g-d protect an irreligious movement?

I don't understand what you are saying.   You really think the American Jews are better off?   The Diaspora Jews are *MORE* likely to do teshuva than Israelis?   Are you kidding me?   The majority of American Jews are intermarried and assimilated and openly reject Judaism with contempt, and even those who are "religious" spurn the mitzvah to settle the land that G-d gave us.  (A different type of assimilation but still assimilation). And if more of them would wake up and come to Israel, the Israeli situation itself could be improved.   These types of "religious" Jews need to do serious teshuva.  As far as I'm concerned, we are all in the same boat and we need to do our best to make the most out of it.   But don't dare suggest that the cursed exile and its blindness is better off!   Hashem Yishmor!   If Israel is gone chas veshalom because too many good Jews stay back in exile, it will only be a matter of time before the pogroms and inquisitions begin in the exile countries.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein