Author Topic: Does/should G-d communicate in signs?  (Read 1908 times)

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Offline Masha

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Does/should G-d communicate in signs?
« on: May 06, 2010, 04:43:53 PM »
What would you say is G-d's side of the bargain in his relationship to the believer? Should G-d provide us with what our heart desires? Preferably, but this is not given. Think of the story of Job. Could we maintain our faith when everything in our lives goes wrong - health, family, business? I would say, yes. As gruesome as it sounds, personal happiness cannot be the meaning of our lives. G-d does not "owe" us the selfish satisfaction of our wishes, as much as we all wish eternal prosperity and happiness. Can hardships in themselves shake my belief in G-d? No, I don't think so.

But is there something we are always justified in expecting from G-d? According to my understanding, yes. We are justified in expecting signs from G-d that would render our lives meaningful. If I pray to G-d, I expect him to answer my prayers. It doesn't mean He will lift the afflictions that plague me, but, at the very least, he should send me some guidance through signs I can interpret. What if no signs are forthcoming? What does one do if G-d has withdrawn from their life?

Offline muman613

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Re: Does/should G-d communicate in signs?
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2010, 04:58:08 PM »
Of course G-d communicates with us through signs... These minor miracles are not visible to everyone but to those who look for them they are clearly signs of Hashems involvement with our daily lives.

Everyone is tested with challenges. Some of these challenges are more difficult than others. Some challenges we are unable to overcome, and others we can easily overcome. It is said that Hashem doesn't give us tests which we are not able to pass. It is up to our sechel/intellect to be able to figure out which tools which Hashem gave us to use to pass these particular set of tests.

A man with very strong emmunah/faith can see Hashem in every breath, every breeze, every cloud in the sky. It is good to be able to strengthen your faith by looking at the world as a sequence of events, each second of life dependent on the previous moment... Everything in our lives is the result of all the moments leading up to now...

The story of Joseph in Egypt is a prime example. Here was Joseph who was a handsome and intelligent youth. His brothers were extremely jealous of him, to the point of plotting to kill him. Instead they sold him into slavery and he was brought down to Egypt. We learn at this point that he was taken down to Mitzrayim in a spice caravan {despite the fact that most arabs were in the business of tar which smelled horrible} and thus Hashem had mercy on him even at this point...

He was sold to the Executioner of Pharoahs court, Potiphar, where he excelled at keeping his masters household... But Potiphars wife was wicked and attempted to seduce the poor young Jewish man... He stood fast, remembering his fathers face, and resisted the advances of his masters wife... She felt rejected and after he fled her advances she falsely accused him of attempting to rape her. He was then thrown into the dark dungeon and almost forgotten.

Many years later he was called out of the dungeon because he was known to be able to understand dreams and Pharoah could not interpret the famous dream of seven sickly and seven healthy cows... Eventually Joseph was appointed the second in command to Pharoah in Egypt..

When finally his brothers came to Egypt to look for food during the famine and he revealed himself to them, Joseph explained that all the misfortune which befell him was just Hashems providence on this family. So that Joseph could eventually be in a position of power to save the descendants of Abraham he had to endure the suffering of being a slave and being imprisoned for many years... Looking back he was able to see Hashems involvement in every step of his journey...




Quote
http://www.torah.org/learning/Parasha-insights/5761/vayeishev.html
This week's Parasha, Vayeshev, contains many fascinating episodes. Figuring prominently amongst them is the sale of Yosef {Joseph} and the many subsequent hardships he endured.

Yosef was first thrown into a pit filled with snakes and scorpions. From there he was sold to Yishmaelites, who in turn sold him to Midianites, who sold him down to Mitzrayim. In Mitzrayim he was bought by a family where he rose to prominence but, based on the false accusations of the woman of the household, he was imprisoned for years.

We can only imagine the emotional agony that Yosef must have endured, his own brothers tearing him away from his beloved father and his subsequently being subjected to such humiliation.

However, the passuk {verse} teaches us that it wasn't all that bad. "And behold, a caravan of Yishmaelites was coming from Gilaad and their camels were carrying spices, balm and ladanum (a grass root) down to Mitzrayim. [37:25]"

Why did the passuk deem it necessary to detail the merchandise of the caravan that carried Yosef down to Mitzrayim? Rashi explains that such caravans were usually carrying malodorous loads. However, Hashem made sure that this group would be carrying fragrant spices since they would be transporting a tzaddik {righteous individual} such as Yosef. As such, Yosef wasn't harmed or bothered by any bad smells.

Quote
Genesis 45:5-8
 5 And now be not grieved, nor angry with yourselves, that ye sold me hither; for G-d did send me before you to preserve life.  6 For these two years hath the famine been in the land; and there are yet five years, in which there shall be neither plowing nor harvest.  7 And G-d sent me before you to give you a remnant on the earth, and to save you alive for a great deliverance.  8 So now it was not you that sent me hither, but G-d; and He hath made me a father to Pharaoh, and lord of all his house, and ruler over all the land of Egypt.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2010, 05:08:23 PM by muman613 »
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline AsheDina

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Re: Does/should G-d communicate in signs?
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2010, 04:59:55 PM »
what about dreams?
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Offline Spiraling Leopard

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Re: Does/should G-d communicate in signs?
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2010, 05:21:44 PM »
God does not give you what you want. God gives you what you need.

Offline Masha

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Re: Does/should G-d communicate in signs?
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2010, 05:58:43 PM »
Muman, a good post. But why did Joseph "need" to be imprisoned for many years? What did it change for him/ in him? How was it necessary to what was to follow?

Another point is that we don't know what happened to Joseph when he was in prison. Maybe Hashem was in communication with him that entire time. Maybe he kept sending signs to him that provided him with guidance and solace. We don't know. But what happens when G-d disappears and doesn't send any signs, doesn't provide guidance, doesn't give solace in your time of suffering? How do we deal with the G-d that has withdrawn? If you pray and pray for a long time not for a relief of your suffering even, but simply for clarity and guidance, but none come, wouldn't this be a "breach of contract," as it were? Isn't that the bare minimum that G-d is supposed to provide if you pray to Him - clarity and guidance? 

Offline Lisa

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Re: Does/should G-d communicate in signs?
« Reply #5 on: May 06, 2010, 06:12:59 PM »
Can you give us an example Masha?  It sounds like something is going very badly for you.  Maybe the people here might be able to help you. 

Offline muman613

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Re: Does/should G-d communicate in signs?
« Reply #6 on: May 06, 2010, 06:16:42 PM »
Muman, a good post. But why did Joseph "need" to be imprisoned for many years? What did it change for him/ in him? How was it necessary to what was to follow?

Another point is that we don't know what happened to Joseph when he was in prison. Maybe Hashem was in communication with him that entire time. Maybe he kept sending signs to him that provided him with guidance and solace. We don't know. But what happens when G-d disappears and doesn't send any signs, doesn't provide guidance, doesn't give solace in your time of suffering? How do we deal with the G-d that has withdrawn? If you pray and pray for a long time not for a relief of your suffering even, but simply for clarity and guidance, but none come, wouldn't this be a "breach of contract," as it were? Isn't that the bare minimum that G-d is supposed to provide if you pray to Him - clarity and guidance? 

Of course I have heard an explanation to the questions you have asked. This story is difficult to understand but it provides a little insight and answers some of your questions...

One of the explanations as to why Joseph was destined to be sold into slavery I have heard is that since Joseph did not speak kindly of his brothers, even coming to the level of speaking Lashon Hara against them, he deserved the punishment which he received.

I dont remember who I heard it from but the story goes that Joseph had reported to his father that the brothers had eaten meat torn from a living animal, or treif, which is against the Torah. Let me see if I can find a reference to this story..

Quote
http://www.ou.org/torah/tt/5765/bo65/print.htm
SDT "No dog wagged its tongue" - The Chidushei HaRim sees this as a reference to the terrible sin of Lashon HaRa, gossip and slander. It can be said that Lashon HaRa caused us to be enslaved in Egypt. The Torah tells us that Yosef brought evil reports about his brothers to their father Yaakov. Their hatred for him resulted in his descent to Egypt and subsequently brought everyone else down there. ...

Quote
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/922039/jewish/Laws-of-Lashon-Hara.htm
# Joseph spoke negatively to his father, Jacob, about his brothers, causing them to hate him. This led to their selling him, and ultimately caused the Egyptian exile.4

Quote
Genesis 37:2
These are the chronicles of Yaakov: Yosef was 17 years old. As a lad, he would tend the sheep with his brothers, the sons of Bilhah and Zilpah, his father's wives. Since his brothers [the sons of Leah] would make fun of them [the sons of Bilhah and Zilpah], Yosef brought his father a bad report about them [the children of Leah]. (Bereshith 37:2)

Quote
http://www.koltorah.org/Volume 14/12 Vayeshev.htm
The first example is Yosef and his relationship with his brothers. The Midrash describes Yosef telling his father Yaakov that his brothers are eating an animal that was not slaughtered. Yosef is actually wrong in this accusation, since the animal was the fetus of a slaughtered mother (Ben Paku’ah), which is Halachically permissible to eat even if it is not slaughtered itself. Because of this false accusation, Hakadosh Baruch Hu punishes Yosef with Middah Kineged Middah when the brothers show Yaakov Yosef’s coat stained with blood after they sold him. Yosef speaks Lashon Hara about his brothers when he judges them by the sight of animal blood, so using Middah Kineged Middah, Hakadosh Baruch Hu judges Yosef, too, with blood.

And yes, we must daven for Hashem to give us Clarity of Vision and Guidance in a world of confusion... We will not be able to judge how we acted until time has passed... Time is essential in seeing the Yad Hashem...



You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Masha

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Re: Does/should G-d communicate in signs?
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2010, 03:00:27 AM »
Muman, a good post. But why did Joseph "need" to be imprisoned for many years? What did it change for him/ in him? How was it necessary to what was to follow?

Another point is that we don't know what happened to Joseph when he was in prison. Maybe Hashem was in communication with him that entire time. Maybe he kept sending signs to him that provided him with guidance and solace. We don't know. But what happens when G-d disappears and doesn't send any signs, doesn't provide guidance, doesn't give solace in your time of suffering? How do we deal with the G-d that has withdrawn? If you pray and pray for a long time not for a relief of your suffering even, but simply for clarity and guidance, but none come, wouldn't this be a "breach of contract," as it were? Isn't that the bare minimum that G-d is supposed to provide if you pray to Him - clarity and guidance? 

Of course I have heard an explanation to the questions you have asked. This story is difficult to understand but it provides a little insight and answers some of your questions...

One of the explanations as to why Joseph was destined to be sold into slavery I have heard is that since Joseph did not speak kindly of his brothers, even coming to the level of speaking Lashon Hara against them, he deserved the punishment which he received.

I dont remember who I heard it from but the story goes that Joseph had reported to his father that the brothers had eaten meat torn from a living animal, or treif, which is against the Torah. Let me see if I can find a reference to this story..

Quote
http://www.ou.org/torah/tt/5765/bo65/print.htm
SDT "No dog wagged its tongue" - The Chidushei HaRim sees this as a reference to the terrible sin of Lashon HaRa, gossip and slander. It can be said that Lashon HaRa caused us to be enslaved in Egypt. The Torah tells us that Yosef brought evil reports about his brothers to their father Yaakov. Their hatred for him resulted in his descent to Egypt and subsequently brought everyone else down there. ...

Quote
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/922039/jewish/Laws-of-Lashon-Hara.htm
# Joseph spoke negatively to his father, Jacob, about his brothers, causing them to hate him. This led to their selling him, and ultimately caused the Egyptian exile.4

Quote
Genesis 37:2
These are the chronicles of Yaakov: Yosef was 17 years old. As a lad, he would tend the sheep with his brothers, the sons of Bilhah and Zilpah, his father's wives. Since his brothers [the sons of Leah] would make fun of them [the sons of Bilhah and Zilpah], Yosef brought his father a bad report about them [the children of Leah]. (Bereshith 37:2)

Quote
http://www.koltorah.org/Volume 14/12 Vayeshev.htm
The first example is Yosef and his relationship with his brothers. The Midrash describes Yosef telling his father Yaakov that his brothers are eating an animal that was not slaughtered. Yosef is actually wrong in this accusation, since the animal was the fetus of a slaughtered mother (Ben Paku’ah), which is Halachically permissible to eat even if it is not slaughtered itself. Because of this false accusation, Hakadosh Baruch Hu punishes Yosef with Middah Kineged Middah when the brothers show Yaakov Yosef’s coat stained with blood after they sold him. Yosef speaks Lashon Hara about his brothers when he judges them by the sight of animal blood, so using Middah Kineged Middah, Hakadosh Baruch Hu judges Yosef, too, with blood.

And yes, we must daven for Hashem to give us Clarity of Vision and Guidance in a world of confusion... We will not be able to judge how we acted until time has passed... Time is essential in seeing the Yad Hashem...



Thank you, Muman. You always give good answers with good examples to these difficult questions.

If it doesn't say in the Torah specifically about the eating of a live animal then how did the Rabbis know that? Is it from the Oral Torah?

What is Yad Hashem? What if you are in the state of confusion for a really long time, and you pray and pray that it is lifted and you receive some isign or inkling about what to do, but your prayers are not answered, and you don't descry any signs even though you try to be as alert to them as possible?

Offline Masha

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Re: Does/should G-d communicate in signs?
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2010, 03:20:33 AM »
Can you give us an example Masha?  It sounds like something is going very badly for you.  Maybe the people here might be able to help you. 

Lisa, thank you. I don't want to say too much in an open forum that our enemies read, as well. But I can give one specific example.

I know that G-d enjoins Jews to return to Israel. I keep in on the back of my mind, but it is not something that I plan to act on in the immediate future. Partly because I am not young and I don't speak Hebrew, and it is unlikely that I can, at this point in my life, learn it to perfection. And without a perfect Hebrew and with my profession, I would only be qualified to do menial jobs. The prospect of throwing away my lengthy and expensive education and giving up on my dreams of professional self-realization is not an attractive one to me. So I do nothing. Suddenly, I see an ad for a job, for which I am uniquely qualified and which would not require for me to speak Hebrew. I take it as a sign from above. Wouldn't you? I take this sign as G-d saying: "I really want to you come to Israel. I will even make it easier for you by removing your main obstacle." So I apply (which takes some time and effort, because this is not the case of simply sending your CV). And what? Not even an interview, even though, with my particular qualifications, I should at least merit an interview.

Why did it happen? Wouldn't G-d want me to go to Israel? What is the meaning of this? Or maybe there is no meaning, but this is simply a random event in a random universe. And I am a fool for trying to see patterns where there are none?

Offline ~Hanna~

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Re: Does/should G-d communicate in signs?
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2010, 03:33:02 AM »
I am going through the most difficult trial of my entire human existance, right now..

I have had several signs from G-d, just this past week, giving me hope.
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Offline rebel_conservative

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Re: Does/should G-d communicate in signs?
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2010, 04:07:52 AM »
I am not sure.

My karate sensei is a Nigerian Christian, once driving in his car to training, we were a little late and got caught in traffic and he said that G-d is teaching him patience.  Now, I just saw traffic...

If G-d is so involved in our lives as to create traffic to teach us a lesson, why would he not solve or at least lessen, the great problems around the world?  How could G-d allow the Holocaust to happen, yet intervene to teach some guy to be a little more patient?  To me, that is people seeing what they want to see in mere coincidences.

When I see something that is so irrational like that, it makes faith in an active G-d much harder.

Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: Does/should G-d communicate in signs?
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2010, 05:27:20 AM »
Masha, you might have not gotten the job because it was Gd's way of telling you to go study Hebrew. OR that there is something even more important for u out there.

But all in all I'm not a prophet nor are you.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Lisa

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Re: Does/should G-d communicate in signs?
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2010, 10:32:10 AM »
Masha, judging from your posts here, you sound like a very intelligent woman.  So please don't sell yourself short.  Now I realize that learning foreign languages comes easier for some younger people.  But I'm sure you could learn plenty.   A while back on Ask JTF, Chaim recommended the audioforum.com program for learning Hebrew.  Have you checked that out? 

Also, do you *really* need to speak Hebrew like a native for your line of work?  I'm of Iranian ancestry.  I see plenty of Iranian Jews in the U.S. whose English is not the best, but who still manage to be very successful. 

Finally, I wouldn't let some want ad get you down. You just never know the reasons why companies put up ads.  I don't know what the employment laws are like in Israel.  But in the U.S., some companies are required to keep up a job listing, even after finding someone.  Or, it could have been some employment agency who was just looking to collect resumes.  You just never know. 

From what I've been reading, most jobs (at least in the States) are filled through networking.  Are you in touch with people in your field who could recommend you, or who could pass your resume along to someone who could hire you? 

Offline MassuhDGoodName

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Re: Does/should G-d communicate in signs?
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2010, 11:29:42 PM »
Masha,
Ha'Shem is real.  The "signs" as you refer to them, are all real.  Go with your instincts.  Your CV and resume will mean nothing soon when the Jews realize that even the United States is their enemy.  Soon, every Jew in America is going to pray to Ha'Shem "Just let us leave here and make it back alive to Israel", but then it is going to be too late for all but the fortunate few who can buy their escape.  If you have the means and the will, follow your instincts.  Miracles are real and they do happen.  I can testify to this as a truth.  There are a great many ways that a Jew can be important living in the Land of Israel which may have little to do with the life we know here.  The whole reason for Return from Exile is to live as a nation again in our own land.  Aliyah means spiritual ascension.   Living in galut, the world views us as having no G-d - still  living under a curse - forced to wander forever, hated, insecure, and in fear.  The purpose for our "return" is not that we can have material comfort and the ability to live extravagantly.  There is nothing "wrong", per se about living well, but Jews have 'lived so well' for the last 2,000 years in every country but their own, that today the majority of Jews in the world have Returned to the Land of Israel, accepting all the difficulties, problems, and economic disadvantages, rather than endure even one more day as a wealthy successful misfit in a world which doesn't want us to survive.  The biggest SIGN MIRACLE of all is the fact that YOU are part of the first two generations of Jews in 2000 years to witness the rebirth of our nation and to be free to return there!  Jews worldwide prayed and begged G-d for 2000 years to let them return back to our own Land and Jerusalem, and today YOU can buy a plane ticket using a plastic credit card, arrive there in less than a day, and receive full citizenship just for the asking!   
You ask if there really are miracles and signs?
Ask yourself:  "WHAT OTHER NATION ON EARTH HAS BEEN HOMELESS AND STATELESS FOR TWO THOUSAND YEARS, PERSECUTED, ENSLAVED, MURDERED, TORTURED, REFUSED TO DISAPPEAR,  AND THEN WAS REBORN AS A NATION BACK IN OUR OWN LAND, WITH HEBREW LANGUAGE AND TORAH INTACT, LITERALLY OVERNIGHT?"
Yes, miracles are real, and are everywhere all around us - only most people are unable to "see" them.
There is a spiritual world and because you are seeking it it is revealing itself to you.
Go.
Ascend.
Trust in Ha'Shem and He will guide you the rest of the way.