Author Topic: Ashkenazi bashing on YouTube we should react  (Read 1116 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline hyperion

  • Full JTFer
  • ***
  • Posts: 141

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

  • Honorable Winged Member
  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *
  • Posts: 12581
Re: Ashkenazi bashing on YouTube we should react
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2010, 06:35:30 AM »
Since he does not allow comments (typical of intellectual-cowards), someone should please make a video response refuting the nonsense and falsehood they are purveying there.

Here is some more info on the subject:  from this thread: http://jtf.org/forum_english/index.php/topic,23740.15.html

Don't waste your time with what islamophobe wrote on the subject if you want to create a factual and logical video.
Shlomo, qq, and a few others have good comments there, but here is what I wrote:

It is documented that there were Jews in areas of Western Europe around 5th century towards the end of the Roman empire.  Jews lived in present-day france in the 500's.   What happened to them?  Magically disappeared?  Doubtful.   The King of the Franks expelled Jews from a territory in 629.  They settled somewhere else in Europe most likely.   Charlemagne granted Jews freedoms after his conquests, so what Jews were these if there weren't any in Europe?   The whole idea is absurd.

Another angle is the following.   If there really were "real Jews" and "fake Jews," why would the supposed "real Jews "  just have summarily accepted a group of phonies?   Why wouldn't a single rabbi have written a document or letter or text warning against the fake Jews in Europe 'hijacking the faith?'  Do you notice how stringent we are today about conversions and about people posing as Jews when really believing in idiocy (example black hebrews)?   Rashi (a great rabbi of France) was universally recognized among Ashkenaz and Sephardim as an authority.   If he was a faker, this couldn't be.   There are others as well.  The Rosh was a halachic authority for both askenazim and sephardim.     

There actually was a time of "phony Jews" in our history.  It's documented in the Talmud.  This would be the Samaritans.  They had improper conversions and were insincere, for a long time actually acting as the enemy of the Jews despite declaring themselves Jews.   They are written against strongly by 'real Jews.' in our writings.   Sephardim never took issue with Ashkenazi Jews of Europe, so you must wonder why today Muslims and Israel-haters attempt to take issue with them.

You would be wise to search the numbers of that supposed khazar tribe.  It is impossible practically speaking that ALL of the various european Jewish communities, from troyes, to worms, to mainz, etc etc descended from a single khazar tribe.  The conversion was not so huge, and it is believed that only the upper class elites actually converted.  They were the ones slaughtered when the khazars were defeated, and the commoners retained their own religions through all that.   So how did those other Jewish communities magically appear in Europe?  (And how did they exist 100's of years before the khazar kingdom?)   And if they were insincere converts or forced converts by the king, as the khazar theory often says, why would they have persisted with their beliefs and remained Jewish after the khazar kingdom was destroyed?


Facts cannot be reconciled with the conspiracy theorists' claims.



And from Arutz Sheva, Tzvi Fishman's blog -
One commenter shows that the facts contradict the ashkenazi-khazar BS and prove that Jews (later referred to as Ashkenazim) were in Europe well before the khazar kingdom existed or its high officers converted to Judaism.

" The scholars have thoroughly debunked the claims of the antisemites that you refer to and only a few pseudoscholars still give credence to what began as a faulty hypothesis ("Khazar Theory") and was turned into an anti-Jewish tome (more like a fantasy novel).

"...Then it would be wise to consult historical proof about why the tinfoil-hat "Khazar-theory " conspiracy nuts are off their rockers and have no legs to stand on. Here are a few simple historical facts to help you out: Prior to the conversion of the state leadership of Khazaria to Judaism as the official state religion, the Kingdom was made up of multiple groups of people, majority pagans, but including some Jews, some xtians and also a Muslim minority. That is historical fact. Given Khazaria's geographical location, this is to be expected. In any case, the relevant question is, where did that Jewish minority come from? And how would the leadership be influenced to convert to Judaism without having been exposed to Jews? This is obvious to anyone upon first thought when considering the Arab claim (they adopted the khazar conspiracy theory to try to deny a Jewish state in their arguments in front of the UN in the 1940's). Thus "ashkenazi " Jews (ie Jews displaced to Europe) already existed prior to the khazar conversion of state religion."

"Now the most relevant historical fact that disproves the nonsense: Jews were proven to have already been in Europe as early as the 100's C.E. in some places (Croatia) and in other places documented to the 200's, 300's and 400's. That would be several centuries before any khazar king. Jews are documented to have been in Germany during the Roman period and in France at least in the 500's if not earlier. You should not be surprised that the term "Ashkenazi " refers to Ashkenaz, the Hebrew name for a land area in present-day Germany. It came to refer to all Jews of the western and central Europe diaspora because Germany happened to be the center of learning and perhaps the largest group at some points in history. Now ashkenazi is loosely tied to any Jew of Europe including those of france, balkans, etc and those who later migrated to and established communities in eastern europe and poland, etc.

It is very obvious why Jews were in Europe so soon, due to the spread of the Roman Empire itself, where Jews spread throughout the empire and were living in all places according to the Roman historians, and the subsequent dispersion after the period of the Temple's destruction and failed bar kochva revolt caused an increase in Jewish migration to these distant lands. So even without finding the archaelogical proofs and dating mentioned above, we already can know from the Roman historians that Jews are in western Europe during the Roman empire. The findings just solidify the historical accounts with proof and reliable dates where we can say Jews were there at least as early as these particular years in this particular place."

"Like in most aspects of their lives, the "Khazar theory " antisemites believe in a fairy tale."

Plus an addendum:  "For your clarity, I will only add that the Roman empire contained a portion of land called "Gaul, " which today is known as France. So we see that Rabbi Meir haGolah and Rashi did not appear out of a vacuum or from a false (or sincere) convert in khazaria who was dispersed by the rus and had no rabbinic tradition and suddenly materialized in france with knowledge of the entire Jewish Talmud."


Offline IsraeliGovtAreKapos

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4384
Re: Ashkenazi bashing on YouTube we should react
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2010, 06:51:55 AM »
Loved your post, KWRBT. You should post on the Hebrew forum too - we sure miss you.

Offline Rubystars

  • Gold Star JTF Member
  • *********
  • Posts: 18307
  • Extreme MAGA Republican
Re: Ashkenazi bashing on YouTube we should react
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2010, 08:53:21 AM »
That was a really good point about the Samaritans.

Moshe92

  • Guest
Re: Ashkenazi bashing on YouTube we should react
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2010, 10:11:47 AM »
There are dozens of groups who claim that they're the real chosen people and we're just fake Jews. Those people are motivated mainly by racism and jealousy.

Offline muman613

  • Platinum JTF Member
  • **********
  • Posts: 29958
  • All souls praise Hashem, Hallelukah!
    • muman613 Torah Wisdom
Re: Ashkenazi bashing on YouTube we should react
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2010, 11:53:57 AM »
It is hysterical that the antisemites continue to use the Khazar myths as a wedge on the Jewish community. European Jewry was dispersed to the four corners before the Khazars even converted. I have read the Jewish sefer concerning the Khazars and even it explains that there were Rabbis who still made pilgrimages to Jerusalem at that time...

PS: My biggest question is "Why would anyone want to convert to Judaism?" after the spread of Christianity. Jews have been persecuted by the Roman/Christians for 2000 years... There is no way anyone would want to convert en masse to Judaism...
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline White Israelite

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4535
Re: Ashkenazi bashing on YouTube we should react
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2010, 03:17:50 PM »
A lot of Ashkenazi look the same or more middle eastern than many Sephardic.

I am not Ashkenazi but I have met a number from Germany or Russia that look like they are Middle Eastern. Some Sephardim are mistaken as Ashkenazi as well. Most of those features people refer to on "Ashkenazi" are possibly mixture from Assyrians during the Assyrian exile. They are also features common in Armenians.

Offline White Israelite

  • Ultimate JTFer
  • *******
  • Posts: 4535
Re: Ashkenazi bashing on YouTube we should react
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2010, 03:27:46 PM »
As for the Khazars, they don't exist anymore, the only people that claim Khazar descent are Tajikistan and some of the Crimean Jews who speak a Turkic language and they are a very small minority. Khazars were descendants of the Mongols that mixed with Turkic groups and had some European blood (Turkic is not the same as Turkish). Khazars also preserved a lot of their shamanist practices even though some had adopted Judaism into their ranks. The Khazars were primarily wiped out by the Russians in terms of cultural people.