Author Topic: Jews for Jesus founder Moishe Rosen dead at 78  (Read 8442 times)

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Offline muman613

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Re: Jews for Jesus founder Moishe Rosen dead at 78
« Reply #75 on: May 24, 2010, 07:13:50 PM »
Muman,

I have seen others use the term Apikoros on here.  My limited understanding of this term is that it applies to Jews who leave Judaism or at least depart from the orthodox position.  I see the first part of your response as contradicting the second.  If we will "allow for anyone to worship in Israel," then how can we say that we will not tolerate Idol worship?  This negates the first premise.  Also who defines Idol worship?  Catholics do not perceive themselves as Idol worshippers, but non-Catholics might.  Catholics say devotional prayers to Jesus' mother, Mary, often in front of a statuary, yet they do not deem this idol worship, so who becomes the arbiter of this?

If you would like we can discuss this in PM. I am afraid what I will say will upset our righteous non-Jewish members. I do not seek to do this.

An apikoris is a Jew who denies the basic tenets of the faith, i.e. the UNITY of Hashem, the concept of reward & punishment, resurrection of the dead, and the coming of moshiach..

But the Jewish faith is clear what Idolatry is.. It is ascribing any power to something which is not Hashem, i.e. the sun, the moon, the stars, a man or woman, etc. Anything corporeal is considered forbidden to worship or ascribe the power which Hashems gives it.

I stated that there will be a time before the coming of Moshiach when everyone will be able to do whatever they want in Israel. I personally pray that Moshiach comes speedily and in my lifetime. Once he has arrived a new paradigm will begin and there will be no desire to worship anything but Hashem himself. This will be a wonderful time for humanity, as the prophets have told, a time when there will be no war, no hunger, no disease, and even no death. All one has to do is to worship only the Creator of the Universe, and the one who freed the Jewish people from the bondage of Egypt. It is difficult to explain this without upsetting the other religions, but it is a time which will be like ecstasy...

http://www.moshiach.com/action/morality/idolatry.php

Quote
PART ONE: Definition of idolatry

1. The essence of the Seven Universal Laws is the prohibition against idolatry. One who worships another deity besides the Creator denies the essence of religion and rejects the entirety of the Seven Universal Laws. But one who guards himself against idolatry demonstrates belief in G-d and affirms the entirety of the Seven Universal Laws.[1]

2. The commandment prohibiting idolatry teaches that one should serve no created thing ‑ no angel, no plant, no star, nothing of the four fundamentals, earth, water, fire, and air, nor anything that is formulated from them. Even if the worshiper knows that G-d is the Supreme Being and worships creation as a way of glorifying G-d's greatness and His ability to create great beings and things, nevertheless this is idol worship.[2]

3. A person may ponder the heavenly spheres and observe that they do not die like other things and that it is therefore proper to bow down to them and serve them. To do this is to place them between oneself and the Creator. For although G-d may have assigned these celestial beings certain roles in the conduct of the world, nevertheless, man's responsibilities are to G-d and not to G-d's messengers. This, in fact, is how idolatry came to exist in the world. The generations that lived immediately after Adam recognized that G-d had created magnificent heavenly beings, the sun to rule by day and the moon to rule by night. And these people began to honor G-d's exalted messengers. Soon it was forgotten that these messengers had been appointed by the Creator, and the sun and the moon began to be honored for their own greatness. This devolved to the worship of these creations as deities themselves without awareness of the G-d that had created them.[3]

4. Although there are opinions which state that the Children of Noah transgress the prohibition of idolatry from the moment they make an idol, the final law is that the transgression does not come into effect until a person actually worships or serves the idol.[4]

5. According to many authorities, a Noahide is not warned about the concept of "partnership with G-d."[5] The concept of partnership is the acknowledgment of the existence of the G-d of Israel in combination with the belief in the possibility and existence of a deity (independent will) other than G-d. So long as ascribing power to a deity other than the Creator remains conceptual, it is permissible to the Children of Noah according to many authorities[6]. But worship of this independent being is clearly idolatry. The danger of the concept of partnership is that it frees people to act in accord with nonexistent gods and opens a doorway to actual idolatry. Most recent authorities agree that Children of Noah are forbidden to believe in a partnership. But even according to these, the Children of Noah are permitted to swear by the name of an idol in combination with G-d (to swear by the Lord of Hosts and a Hindu deity, for example).

6. The Children of Noah are not commanded to sanctify G-d's Name by refusing to bow to an idol in the face of a threat to their lives.[7] And there is a dispute whether the Children of Noah are even allowed to choose to lay down their lives in this manner, since they are not commanded to do so.[8] However, since the Children of Noah may perform any of the 613 Commandments of the Torah to receive reward (with the notable exceptions found in the previous chapter), then it would follow that the Noahide may choose to lay down his life for the sanctification of G-d's name rather than bow to an idol, even though not commanded to do so.

7. Many books have been written by idol worshipers con­cerning the nature of their idolatry, the service, procedures, and laws. One should not read these books at all, nor should one think about them nor speak of them. Even studying the formation of an idolatrous figure or asking how something is served without having the intention of serving it might cause one to be led to engage in idolatrous practices.[9]

8. Anyone who acknowledges that an idolatrous religion is true, even though he does not serve the idol, reviles the mighty and exalted Name of G-d.[10]
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline takebackourtemple

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Re: Jews for Jesus founder Moishe Rosen dead at 78
« Reply #76 on: May 24, 2010, 07:40:38 PM »
why the celebration ?

He founded an organization that was dedicated to getting Jews to leave Judaism.

And ?

Thats what Christians do. Evangelize.

Was he some far left-wing nut, or am i missing something.


Keep in mind that just because he was a traitor to his Jewish identity doesn't mean that he was a loyal Christian. His goal was not to truly follow Christianity but to destroy Jewish faith.
Does it bother you that you have to face the dome and the rock to say the sh'ma?

Offline JTFenthusiast2

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Re: Jews for Jesus founder Moishe Rosen dead at 78
« Reply #77 on: May 28, 2010, 02:53:49 PM »
בס''ד

Baruch Hashem!

If he thought prostate cancer was rough, that is nothing compared to his current problems in the next world. He is in a very warm place, and he will be staying there forever.

Everytime I see this I am stitches, picturing Chaim

Offline Christian Zionist

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Re: Jews for Jesus founder Moishe Rosen dead at 78
« Reply #78 on: May 28, 2010, 05:47:10 PM »
In case some of you "Christians" on this forum forgot:

    NUMBER ONE:  It's not christian to be happy when someone dies. Especially someone who did no harm to you.

NUMBER TWO:   Seeking converts is one of the principles of christianity, like it or not

ape, I hope you're not trying to engage in religious polemics here!

Firstly, Moishe Rosen was not a Christian. He didn't follow normative Christianity. His religious blend of Jewish beliefs with Christianity is nothing more than a cult. I would actually prefer dealing with a Christian missionary in this country than with a member of "J4J". At the very least, I would know what I'm dealing with. Moishe Rosen and all of the other Moishe Rosen's are deceitful snakes who are worthy of nothing but contempt. Obviously, I shed no tears over his death.

I personally never liked Moishe Rosen.  He caused more damage than good to the cause of Christianity.  Even Jesus would have disapproved his activities.  I don't like J4J specifically targeting  Jews and in my analysis J4J is not even following the Christian Bible properly.
Isaiah 62:1 -  For Zion's sake I am not silent, And for Jerusalem's sake I do not rest, Till her righteousness go out as brightness, And her salvation, as a torch that burns.