Ariel,
I believe the simple explanation is the old saying "Ask two Jews a question, get three opinions..."
Even in the times of the Talmud there could be two Great Rabbis who would hold differing opinions.
I believe wonga66 will claim that the Chassidim or Haredim are Erev Rav which I believe is complete Bullcrepe..
The question comes down to what exactly Zionism is... Is it the secular zionism which created the state of Israel? If that is what is talked about it is clear that the religious would oppose it because a non-religious Israel is not what Hashem wanted and the religious Jews believe that Hashem will only allow the Jews to occupy the land when we accept the Torah which he gave us...
The Torah says at least 2 times that the land will vomit the Jewish people out if they reject his Torah. Read the Tochacha a couple of times and it will be clear that Jews only inherit the land if we accept the Torah, and live by it's precepts...
So the problem is that most of these Chassids and Haredim look at the current state and say this is not what Hashem wanted. Can this state be saved? I am one who believes it can... But the current leaders in Israel have to go... I believe that Kahanism is a way to save the current state of Israel by working within the government...
Here is what the Breslov site says about Zionism..
http://www.breslov.org/blog/?tag=zionism
Question:
Do Breslov Chasidim belive in Zionism? Do they belive in a Jewish State as well as Eretz Yisrael being the homeland of the Am Yisrael? From what I understand there is a split in the breslov world. Can you please clarify this for me? Does Breslov make up part of the Eda Haredit?
Answer:
In my opinion it depends on what you mean by Zionism. If you were simply referring to “Zionism” as the love of Eretz Yisrael and our belief that it was given to the Jewish people eternally and that eventually we will return to it, then there is no doubt that every Breslover is a Zionist. There was no bigger lover of the Land of Israel than Rebbe Nachman. His books are filled with praise for Eretz Yisrael and of advice in regards to gaining its kidusha/holiness. It is know that Rebbe Nachman himself overtook an extremely dangerous journey, whose original purpose was only to walk a few steps in the Land and then return to his Chassidim. Rebbe Nachman told his Chassidim that anyone who wants to be a real Jew, must visit the Land.
Now if you are referring to the modern political Zionist movement founded by Theodore Herzl amongst others, simply put, Breslov is not a political movement. Firstly, the Rebbe passed away on Sukkot 1810, the Zionist Movement was not founded until the end of the 19th century, so the Rebbe definitely did not say anything about it. The mesorah-traditions we have in Breslov rarely contains political views. We believe that the Rebbe being the Tzaddik Emes/True Tzaadik is constantly doing whatever is in his power to bring every Jew closer to G-d and the truth. This goal and process stands head and tails above all political beliefs and groups.
I once heard a story from the grandson of the great anti-Zionist Reb Shmuel Shapiro. His grandfather was once lovingly dancing with another Breslover who was very Zionistic. When Reb Shmuel was asked why he would dance with this fellow, he replied something to the effect that their personal hiskasherut/connection to Rebbe Nachman is much larger than any political disputes. Some Breslovers may choose to be Zionistic, well others may choose the opposite, but in the end we will be judged by how much we followed the Eitzos/Advice of the Tzaddik and by how much we strived to pursue truth. Everything else is trivial.
Hope this helps,
Yossi Katz
That is interesting. I always like hearing the Breslov side of things. It seems to me that I can agree with both arguments at the same time. I am very supportive of Israel, as we all are, and like many of us I wish Torah played a bigger role in Israel's government. It is a heavy moment because secular Jews appear to have the majority of the power in Israel, but I truly believe this is only that, a moment. I can easily sympathize with any Torah Jew if they are troubled by the role of secularism in the ruling parties of Israel.
I just watched a 60 or 70 minute speech from Rabbi Kahane yesterday, it was posted on the forum wall [he spoke to Noachides in a convention of theirs, I believe you commented in the thread], and he made a pretty good explanation why we were given the State of Israel again even though many Jews are not Torah observant, including many of the Zionist pioneers. Rabbi explains that HaShem did not grant Israel's statehood because we were good Jews, not at all. HaShem granted us Israel once again because of the Chillul HaShem of the goyim nations. -- From this I walk away thinking Jewish sovereignty over Israel occurred for the sake of creating Kiddush HaShem to replace the Chillul HaShem in the world [attacking the Jewish people for being Jewish is an attack on HaShem Himself], it is to make clear to the goyim of the world HaShem exists and can do anything. People said because of 2,000 years of torment in exile and the Holocaust, "surely the Jewish God does not exist, or He has abandoned His people who He had a covenant with". By bringing forth Israel once again HaShem shows those who wish to disbelieve that they are wrong, and our God always keeps His word, and He will never let us be destroyed, and for the sake of Kiddush HaShem and for the disbelieving eyes of the goyim [or even Jews who were so traumatized by these events they too did not believe], not because we are good Torah Jews. -- Of course now is the time to honor HaShem and immerse ourselves back in Torah and to live lives of Mitzvoth. -- I'm not sure if I get everything the Rabbi says [I'm no Gaon!], but things feel more understandable to me now about how the modern State of Israel came to be. I can see the both sides of the Zionist argument with Torah Jews now [and a possible resolve], and I can understand pro-Zionist secular Jews [this is our legal homeland], I just don't get anti-Zionist secular Jews I suppose.