Haredi idealism: keep Ashkenaz & Sefard education separate

[wonga66]

After seeing these Haredi numbers, the IDF will never accept more than a few hundred in to the army per year. Even though the Haredim represent a limitless pool of able bodied cannon-fodder, TPTB in Israel are terrified of what military-trained Haredim would be capable of!

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

israeli haredis are worms.

You sound just like Goebbels.

at least i am going to serve in the army and pay my taxes and not suck up money from the government.

So you're ok with "being like Goebbels?"  That's ok to you?

[wonga66]

This by Steven Plaut:


The headlines in Israel are filled with the story of the court ordering the mass arrest and imprisonment of a group of ultra-Orthodox “hareidi” parents for disobeying a court order that commands them to send their children to one school and not to another.  The world media have discovered the story of intra-Jewish “racism” inside Israel.  By and large they are just repeating the twist on the story that the Israeli secularist leftist media have attributed to it.  And, as usually happens, the media brutally subordinated the story to their own biases and ideological agenda, in so doing getting just about everything possible wrong in the story.

 

The media despise the hareidim.  The media consider them people refusing to live in the modern real world, hiding in their cloistered communities from reality, often living as parasites off the public dole.  The media also claim that some hareidim hotheads turn violent whenever anything annoys them, ranging from parking lots operating on the Sabbath to the court seizing custody from a mentally ill abusive hareidi mother who starved her children.  Up to that point, the media are completely correct.  But the media do not rest at denouncing the hareidim for those things for which they deserve to be denounced, and instead paint them as everything demonic and evil in the universe, down to and including “racist.”   The media people, almost all of them being leftists, have problems completing a sentence that does not include the word “racist,” usually applied to Israelis who disagree with the far Left.   

 

Ask any Israel or any non-Israeli who has heard about the judicial Mexican standoff regarding the girls’ school in Emannuel and they will tell you it is all about “racism,” by Ashkenazi ultra-Orthodox against Sephardim/Mizrachim.  I googled “Emannuel girls school racism” as a set of key words and got 78,000 hits in English and 36,000 in Hebrew.

 

Putting aside the silliness of referring to intra-Jewish sub-ethnic tensions as “racism,” a shallow reading beyond the headlines in Israel’s conscripted media is enough to show that there is much more to the story than meets the blind eye.  For one, the SHAS party, which was created in the first place as a sort of Sephardic religious power block and Sephardic pride juggernaut, is backing the Ashkenazi parents in the feud (with a few SHAS leaders on the other side).   Then the leading Israeli journalist denouncing the courts and the media misrepresentation of the story is Maariv’s Ben Dror Yemini, himself from a Yemenite family and a long time leading voice of Sephardic pride and protest.

 

While the Emmanuel story is complex, virtually nothing in the story has anything to do with ethnic prejudice or bigotry.  It has a lot to do with hareidi autonomy, state funding for independent ultra-Orthodox schools, school choice, and judicial tyranny.

 

First of all, despite the media’s obsession with painting the Ashkenazi parents from the Emmanuel girls’ school as anti-Sephardic bigots, the school itself is far more integrated than most secular schools in Israel, with around one third of the girls in the school coming from Sephardic/Mizrachi families.  Moreover, the girls “rejected” by the school attend a nearby predominantly Sephardic religious sister school in which large numbers of Ashkenazi girls study.  It turns out that a handful of Sephardic girls were indeed denied admission to the first school, but the real reason seems to be some questions in the minds of the local school board about their devotion to the ultra-fanatical version of religiosity practiced in the community in question.

 

The Ashkenazi parents in the controversy are mainly members of the Slonim Chassidic “court.”  They are ultra-Orthodox fanatics.  But ultra-Orthodox fanatics have the same right to raise their children the way they want as the rest of us.  They have a long track record of admitting girls to their community school from outside their “court,” as long as the girls comply with the admittedly-loopy notions of religiosity in which they believe.  These include such cosmic matters as buttoning girls shirts to the neck and not one button shy of the neck, praying using the texts and pronunciations the Slonim use, and so on.

 

The “Ashkenazi-Sephardic” feud in the school is not.  Not Ashkenazi-Sephardic, that is.   It is instead between ultra-ultra-ultra-hareidim, who do not want any kids in the school whose notions of religiosity fall one shirt button below their own, and an imperious “judicial activist” court that demands that they do so.  It is a feud between religious ultras and those somewhat less religious.

 

Now most Sephardic families are far more sensible than the Slonim hareidim in their own personal religiosity, although some prefer the Slonim school for their kids.  Where the school admissions committee has doubts about the devotion of a student’s family to their own brand of observance, they send the kid instead to the nearby predominantly Sephardic girls school, where neck buttons may be unbuttoned in wild abandon.  (I am reminded of the old joke about the hareidi prohibition on dancing because it can lead to exercising!)

 

The whole conflict was brought before the court when a family of two girls turned down by the school got themselves some lawyers, evidently paid for by the New Israel Fund, always happy to fund campaigns that attack the Orthodox and make Israel look evil and “racist” in the world.

 

The Ashkenazi judges in the court eventually sided with the petitioners.   Hundreds of Ashkenazi parents in the school then decided to bus their kids away to a different school in Bnai Brak, rather than risk the kids being contaminated by any button openers.   The court then ordered them to desist and to return their kids to the Emmanuel school. They refused.  The court then ordered dozens of parents to be imprisoned for contempt of court.  They are rotting in prison as we e-speak.

 

Now let me be clear.  I would not send any of my kids to any such school, and would never move to a community in which such hareidim were the dominant social group.  I do not like the hareidim and disapprove of their notions of religiosity.  I am all in favor of conditioning state funding to their schools on such things as their adding a bit of math and science to Talmud studies, to make their students gainfully employable, and to deny state funding if they decline the offer.   If they are willing to forego funding, then I think the state should butt out and let them run their schools as they see fit.  Let me also add that if anyone suspects me of any anti-Sephardic bigotry, they will have to contend with my wife, who was a proud militant Sephardic woman long before she married this Ashkenazi twit 25 years ago last week.  Don’t worry, dear, I will be done with the blogging in a few moments and will then attend to the hoovering.  (That is the secret of the 25 years!)

 

But anyway, that is NOT what Israeli governments have been doing.  To buy the support of the hareidi parties for government coalitions, both Labor and Likud have long ladled out funding to hareidi schools with no conditionality at all.  Including with regard to admissions criteria for students.   Those long-time dirty deals of tossing out pecuniary pork with no conditions in exchange for political backing created the current Emmanuel standoff.

 

But I also believe in democracy and pluralism.  I believe Jews in Israel have the right to live and to school their kids in ways different from my own notions.

 

I also believe that the worst fanatics in this story are the judicial activists in robes in the court.  Yes, that group of Ashkenazi-only judges that issued the contempt injunction and order for the mass arrest of the parents.  And the media talking heads cheering on the court and its “defense of democracy” were also entirely Ashkenazim!

 

The very same courts have ordered no one at all arrested after a judicial writ was issued earlier recognizing that the Jews who owned property in the Simon the Righteous (Sheikh Jarrah) neighborhood are the legal owners and have the right to evict the Arabs squatting in their housing units.  When those court orders were ignored by the Arabs, backed by demonstrations of leftists led by Hebrew University professors, no one was arrested for contempt.

 

The court has picked a fight with the huge hareidi community, and yesterday tens of thousands took to the streets in their black hats and winter coats in the 95 degree heat to challenge the legitimacy of the court’s decision.  I do not see how the court can win in this battle.

 

I attach below a short piece on the conflict written by my buddy David Bedein.  He and I go back to the Philadelphia 60s together, but I will save those tales for another time:

 

 

What is happening in Emanuel: Not an Ethnic Schism. Rather, the result of a social work policy from 40 years ago

 

 

 

DAVID BEDEIN,MSW

ISRAEL RESOURCE NEWS AGENCY AND THE CENTER FOR NEAR EAS POLICY RESEARCH

Beit Agron International Press Center

37 Hillel St

Jerusalem

www.IsraelBehindTheNews.com

tel. 02 6236368

 

The conflict that now ensues in the city of Emanuel has little to do with ethnic tensions between Sephardic and Ashkenazi Jewish Israelis.

 

Speaking from experience a social work community organizer who worked in the field in the 1970's and 1980's, short sighted bureaucratic decisions that were made then are coming home to roost, a generation later.

 

The idea then was to lump all lower class people into new housing units and into new towns, with the hope that they would get along with one another.

 

The Israel Housing Ministry and what was then called the Israel Welfare Ministry mixed families with social problems with working families, and also mixed strictly observant Sephardic families with less strictly observant Sephardic families, with the hope that they would get along with one another.

 

As the more strictly observant Sephardic families began to choose more traditional schools for their children to learn in, they were not interested in welcoming the less observant Sephardic families to attend their schools, which maintained more rigid standards in terms of dress code, television watching, etc.

 

A particular Sephardic women in Emmanuel whose daughter was rejected by the school in Emanuel because the standards of religious observance of her daughter and of her family did not meet the requirements of the school.

 

That Sephardic woman is media savvy.

 

She contacted the New Israel Fund, the Shas Party and just about every reporter whom she could get a hold of and claimed that she was being discriminated against because she was a Sephardic Jew.

 

The NIF, Shas and the media had a field day, as did some Orthodox Rabbis like Rabbi Yuval Sharlo of Efrat who appeared on Kol Yisrael on June 17 and condemned the school in Emmanuel for "racist and discriminatory behavior."

 

The NIF and Shas, stranger bedfellows as they are, sued in the Israel High Court of Justice to demand that the Israel High Court of Justice order the school in Emanuel to admit the less observant Sephardic girls into their school.

 

The NIF and Shas were successful in their suit, and the Israel High Court of Justice demanded that any parent who refused to send their children to school under such circumstances be jailed.

 

And, indeed, 61 sets of parents announced that they were ready to go to jail rather than admit the less observant Sephardic girls to the school.

 

27 of those sets of parents are themselves Sephardic Jews.

 

Does that fact affect the NIF, Shas and Rabbi Sharlo? Time will tell.

 

[Ben m]

israeli haredis are worms.

You sound just like Goebbels.

at least i am going to serve in the army and pay my taxes and not suck up money from the government.

So you're ok with "being like Goebbels?"  That's ok to you?

i think you need to talk more to wonga66.he got the right idea on ther leftists call kahane nazies.i am apllying the same to you.

[MassuhDGoodName]

Proving once again, what we have always known -

JEWS ALL STICK TOGETHER!

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

This by Steven Plaut:


The headlines in Israel are filled with the story of the court ordering the mass arrest and imprisonment of a group of ultra-Orthodox “hareidi” parents for disobeying a court order that commands them to send their children to one school and not to another.  The world media have discovered the story of intra-Jewish “racism” inside Israel.  By and large they are just repeating the twist on the story that the Israeli secularist leftist media have attributed to it.  And, as usually happens, the media brutally subordinated the story to their own biases and ideological agenda, in so doing getting just about everything possible wrong in the story.

Originally, the story was about racism.   That was the original court order which said to take down the separations they had illegally put up in the school.   No major protest about that court order.   What has followed is the insanity of the tyrannical court trying to impose its will and unjustly imprisoning people.

But do not be deceived that there was not originally racism involved, and the same kind of insane chumrah expectations which all haredi schools use to put parents through the ringer with their arbitrary admission standards.  (ie, your cousin is sephardi we don't want your kid in the school.  Or, you work with secular people, your kid can't come here... etc etc).   All that insanity really happens and its in publically funded schools!


As to you citing the Shas party, big deal.  Once again Shas has betrayed its constituency, and those who logged the complaint, including the son of Rabbi Yosef, Rabbi Yakov Yosef, have said that Shas has betrayed sephardim by defending the actions of the Slonimers.   If the person who raised the original complaint cites racism , why should I have any reason to believe the claims of these nuts who say there was never racism involved?   There certainly was.   At first it was under wraps, but the parents and courts have now chosen to make it a national story because of both of their insistence on being right and stubbornness.   The court is tyrannical!   These parents are also nuts for not complying with the original order.   Sorry, but they are.   There is nothing "against Torah" about taking down partitions from with classrooms (and recess playground) of a mixed school.

Thus, they have given the media what they wanted all along. 

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

israeli haredis are worms.

You sound just like Goebbels.

at least i am going to serve in the army and pay my taxes and not suck up money from the government.

So you're ok with "being like Goebbels?"  That's ok to you?

i think you need to talk more to wonga66.he got the right idea on ther leftists call kahane nazies.i am apllying the same to you.

If you had intellect to the level of a 10 year old, you would comprehend that you admitted to being like Goebels and are ok with it.  That's number 1.    Your response was not to modify your statement or change what you said, you only defended it with a further "criticism" of haredim that you think somehow defends yourself.

2.  Unlike leftists who throw around nazi, I am drawing a valid comparison.   Just like Goebels made inaccurate generalized statements to characterize Jews as evil and the enemy and lying and greedy etc etc, you are making inaccurate generalized statements to characterize haredim.   So I am in no way making a generalized claim about you or a baseless accusation.   I am putting two and two together and showing what a nazi you are revealing yourself to be with your own words.

Don't give me this childish garbage.

[Ben m]

israeli haredis are worms.

You sound just like Goebbels.

at least i am going to serve in the army and pay my taxes and not suck up money from the government.

So you're ok with "being like Goebbels?"  That's ok to you?

i think you need to talk more to wonga66.he got the right idea on ther leftists call kahane nazies.i am apllying the same to you.

If you had intellect to the level of a 10 year old, you would comprehend that you admitted to being like Goebels and are ok with it.  That's number 1.    Your response was not to modify your statement or change what you said, you only defended it with a further "criticism" of haredim that you think somehow defends yourself.

2.  Unlike leftists who throw around nazi, I am drawing a valid comparison.   Just like Goebels made inaccurate generalized statements to characterize Jews as evil and the enemy and lying and greedy etc etc, you are making inaccurate generalized statements to characterize haredim.   So I am in no way making a generalized claim about you or a baseless accusation.   I am putting two and two together and showing what a nazi you are revealing yourself to be with your own words.

Don't give me this childish garbage.

first.i don't need to explain myself to you.you are just accussng me and c4j on baseless accusations.second,i view you as a leftist so if you will call me goebbels it will be likeyou praised me.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

israeli haredis are worms.

You sound just like Goebbels.

at least i am going to serve in the army and pay my taxes and not suck up money from the government.

So you're ok with "being like Goebbels?"  That's ok to you?

i think you need to talk more to wonga66.he got the right idea on ther leftists call kahane nazies.i am apllying the same to you.

If you had intellect to the level of a 10 year old, you would comprehend that you admitted to being like Goebels and are ok with it.  That's number 1.    Your response was not to modify your statement or change what you said, you only defended it with a further "criticism" of haredim that you think somehow defends yourself.

2.  Unlike leftists who throw around nazi, I am drawing a valid comparison.   Just like Goebels made inaccurate generalized statements to characterize Jews as evil and the enemy and lying and greedy etc etc, you are making inaccurate generalized statements to characterize haredim.   So I am in no way making a generalized claim about you or a baseless accusation.   I am putting two and two together and showing what a nazi you are revealing yourself to be with your own words.

Don't give me this childish garbage.

first.i don't need to explain myself to you. 

  That's what a message board is for.

you are just accussng me and c4j

   c4j has nothing to do with this, I never brought up your boyfriend.

on baseless accusations. 

  Nothing I said was baseless.  You condemned yourself with your own words.   You speak about haredim like Goebbels and Hitler yemach shemam vzichram spoke about the Jews.   That's a fact, not baseless and not an accusation, it's stating a fact.   You have no defense for the fact but you try to rationalize it and justify it.   You are an animal.

second,i view you as a leftist so if you will call me goebbels it will be likeyou praised me.

Any Jew who considers it a "praise" to be called Goebbels has serious psychiatric problems and does not belong on this forum.  If that includes wonga, then so be it.   If he thinks it's a praise to be called Hitler or Goebbels (when making comments actually similar to Hitler and Goebels and reflecting hatred of Jews) he also needs his head examined.   Although I doubt highly that he was saying that.   You simply cannot understand what he was saying, and you twist his stupid arguments to support your nazism (even though even he would not agree with your insanity!).

[Ben m]

israeli haredis are worms.

You sound just like Goebbels.

at least i am going to serve in the army and pay my taxes and not suck up money from the government.

So you're ok with "being like Goebbels?"  That's ok to you?

i think you need to talk more to wonga66.he got the right idea on ther leftists call kahane nazies.i am apllying the same to you.

If you had intellect to the level of a 10 year old, you would comprehend that you admitted to being like Goebels and are ok with it.  That's number 1.    Your response was not to modify your statement or change what you said, you only defended it with a further "criticism" of haredim that you think somehow defends yourself.

2.  Unlike leftists who throw around nazi, I am drawing a valid comparison.   Just like Goebels made inaccurate generalized statements to characterize Jews as evil and the enemy and lying and greedy etc etc, you are making inaccurate generalized statements to characterize haredim.   So I am in no way making a generalized claim about you or a baseless accusation.   I am putting two and two together and showing what a nazi you are revealing yourself to be with your own words.

Don't give me this childish garbage.

first.i don't need to explain myself to you. 

  That's what a message board is for.

you are just accussng me and c4j

   c4j has nothing to do with this, I never brought up your boyfriend.

on baseless accusations. 

  Nothing I said was baseless.  You condemned yourself with your own words.   You speak about haredim like Goebbels and Hitler yemach shemam vzichram spoke about the Jews.   That's a fact, not baseless and not an accusation, it's stating a fact.   You have no defense for the fact but you try to rationalize it and justify it.   You are an animal.

second,i view you as a leftist so if you will call me goebbels it will be likeyou praised me.

Any Jew who considers it a "praise" to be called Goebbels has serious psychiatric problems and does not belong on this forum.  If that includes wonga, then so be it.   If he thinks it's a praise to be called Hitler or Goebbels (when making comments actually similar to Hitler and Goebels and reflecting hatred of Jews) he also needs his head examined.   Although I doubt highly that he was saying that.   You simply cannot understand what he was saying, and you twist his stupid arguments to support your nazism (even though even he would not agree with your insanity!).

1) the message board is for discussion between NORMAL people.
2) this is an example of person you picked out and labeled him as as nazi on i don't know what basis.
3) so please give us qutoes of goeblles and hitler and compare them with my quotes.
4) i reszt my case. you just twist my arguments in order to satisfy your twisted leftist mind.

[Ari Ben-Canaan]

israeli haredis are worms.

You sound just like Goebbels.

at least i am going to serve in the army and pay my taxes and not suck up money from the government.

So you're ok with "being like Goebbels?"  That's ok to you?

i think you need to talk more to wonga66.he got the right idea on ther leftists call kahane nazies.i am apllying the same to you.

If you had intellect to the level of a 10 year old, you would comprehend that you admitted to being like Goebels and are ok with it.  That's number 1.    Your response was not to modify your statement or change what you said, you only defended it with a further "criticism" of haredim that you think somehow defends yourself.

2.  Unlike leftists who throw around nazi, I am drawing a valid comparison.   Just like Goebels made inaccurate generalized statements to characterize Jews as evil and the enemy and lying and greedy etc etc, you are making inaccurate generalized statements to characterize haredim.   So I am in no way making a generalized claim about you or a baseless accusation.   I am putting two and two together and showing what a nazi you are revealing yourself to be with your own words.

Don't give me this childish garbage.

first.i don't need to explain myself to you. 

  That's what a message board is for.

you are just accussng me and c4j

   c4j has nothing to do with this, I never brought up your boyfriend.

on baseless accusations. 

  Nothing I said was baseless.  You condemned yourself with your own words.   You speak about haredim like Goebbels and Hitler yemach shemam vzichram spoke about the Jews.   That's a fact, not baseless and not an accusation, it's stating a fact.   You have no defense for the fact but you try to rationalize it and justify it.   You are an animal.

second,i view you as a leftist so if you will call me goebbels it will be likeyou praised me.

Any Jew who considers it a "praise" to be called Goebbels has serious psychiatric problems and does not belong on this forum.  If that includes wonga, then so be it.   If he thinks it's a praise to be called Hitler or Goebbels (when making comments actually similar to Hitler and Goebels and reflecting hatred of Jews) he also needs his head examined.   Although I doubt highly that he was saying that.   You simply cannot understand what he was saying, and you twist his stupid arguments to support your nazism (even though even he would not agree with your insanity!).

1) the message board is for discussion between NORMAL people.
2) this is an example of person you picked out and labeled him as as nazi on i don't know what basis.
3) so please give us qutoes of goeblles and hitler and compare them with my quotes.
4) i reszt my case. you just twist my arguments in order to satisfy your twisted leftist mind.

You have called the Haredi "worms"...
http://www.nowpublic.com/world/rhetoric-hatred

In Mein Kampf, Hitler had already referred to Jews as a “worm in a rotting body, a pestilence worse than the black death of the past, a carrier of bacilli of the worst kind, the eternal schizomycete of humanity, the spider that slowly sucks out a people’s life-blood through its pores, a band of rats that fight each other to the death, the parasite within the bodies of other peoples, the very epitome of a parasite, a scrounger that proliferates more and more, like a harmful bacillus, the eternal leach, the vampire of all peoples.”

If Hilter [YS'V] had only said "Haredi" in place of "Jews", would you stand by his side?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

1) the message board is for discussion between NORMAL people. 

  If that's the case, you don't belong here.

2) this is an example of person you picked out and labeled him as as nazi on i don't know what basis.

ONCE AGAIN, I never called him a nazi.   QUOTE ME.   If you think I did, quote me.   Stop repeating this baseless slander like a childish little brat who just repeats what his boyfriend says.   

And by saying I never called him that, that does not mean I know if he is or isn't.  But I never claimed to know either way.   You two just repeat this stupid old argument and never let it go because you want to trash people who threaten you - namely, self-respecting Jews and religious Jews.  I fall into both categories, so to you I am the big boogeyman.

4) i reszt my case. you just twist my arguments in order to satisfy your twisted leftist mind.

  Nazis are far-leftists.   You defend nazis who have white skin color.   There is no reason for you to call anyone else leftwing.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

3) so please give us qutoes of goeblles and hitler and compare them with my quotes.

http://www.ushmm.org/propaganda/exhibit.html#/records/data/records/antisemitic-sign.xml

Ben's poster says haredim are unwanted here.

Ben says:  "Haredim are worms."   



http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fd/Nazi_Anti-
  Caption:  Two common Anti-semitic depictions of Jews during Nazi Germany: on the left is the Capitalist/Communist global parasite depiction; on the right is the Wandering Jew.

Hmm, looks just like a worm.

"http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/posters/streich.jpg"    Streicher:  "The Jews are our Misfortune!"   

Ben just switches to the word haredim.

http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/posters/dragon.jpg

Instead of dragons you depict as worms, and instead of attacking the German christian, you have them attacking your state.

Every school kid knows that the german nazi propaganda machine depicted Jews as bloodsucking leeches and greedy capitalists while the German was portrayed as the masculine, muscular farmer who engaged physical labor.    You are just spinning it to haredi welfare recipients and saying they spurn physical labor in the form of the army.  You sound like you want them exterminated.  Do you?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

http://remember.org/witness/links.sp.hit.html

   "Now for the first time they will not bleed other people to death..."

Adolph Hitler speaking to a crowd at the Sports Palace in Berlin,m30 January 1942.
Quoted in "Auschwitz and the Allies," page 20 and footnoted as being from "Voices of History 1942-43," Franklin Watts (editor), New York, 1943. Text as monitored by the Foreign Broadcast Monitoring Service, Federal Communications Commission.

Ben says, "and tey suck away money from the country like milk."

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

 

Ben on the left his left-wing nutcase friend from the Hebrew forum Bar on the right.

[Ben m]

you still didn't quoted me.i said ISRAELI HAREDIM are parasites.and nobody in in israel denies that.

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

you still didn't quoted me.i said ISRAELI HAREDIM are parasites.and nobody in in israel denies that.

Actually most of the Jewish Israeli public disagrees with you.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

you still didn't quoted me.

Read the post again.  I quoted you several times.

Are you blind or just a liar?

Drop this silly game where you repeat the arguments I use and try to flip them against me even though they have no relevance in the context of what you say.   It's like a little school kid repeating everything his friend says in recess.  You must really want to be like me ben.   You fear me, yet you want to be me.  Sounds about right.

[Ben m]

you still didn't quoted me.

.  You must really want to be like me ben.   You fear me, yet you want to be me.  Sounds about right.

is this a joke? who wants to be like YOU.definetly not ME.

[muman613]

you still didn't quoted me.

.  You must really want to be like me ben.   You fear me, yet you want to be me.  Sounds about right.

is this a joke? who wants to be like YOU.definetly not ME.

Sometimes it seems like you ben are the joke here... I occasionally want to give you the benefit of the doubt so I think you are just joking but then I realize that you are being serious and then I worry about you... I agree with KWRBT that you really need to do some self-evaluation and find out what is so wrong about your world view... I can't help you...

[Ben m]

you still didn't quoted me.

.  You must really want to be like me ben.   You fear me, yet you want to be me.  Sounds about right.

is this a joke? who wants to be like YOU.definetly not ME.

Sometimes it seems like you ben are the joke here... I occasionally want to give you the benefit of the doubt so I think you are just joking but then I realize that you are being serious and then I worry about you... I agree with KWRBT that you really need to do some self-evaluation and find out what is so wrong about your world view... I can't help you...

i love my CURRENT world view thank you.

[muman613]

you still didn't quoted me.

.  You must really want to be like me ben.   You fear me, yet you want to be me.  Sounds about right.

is this a joke? who wants to be like YOU.definetly not ME.

Sometimes it seems like you ben are the joke here... I occasionally want to give you the benefit of the doubt so I think you are just joking but then I realize that you are being serious and then I worry about you... I agree with KWRBT that you really need to do some self-evaluation and find out what is so wrong about your world view... I can't help you...

i love my CURRENT world view thank you.

You will have to grow up bucko...

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

you still didn't quoted me.

.  You must really want to be like me ben.   You fear me, yet you want to be me.  Sounds about right.

is this a joke? who wants to be like YOU.definetly not ME.

Sometimes it seems like you ben are the joke here... I occasionally want to give you the benefit of the doubt so I think you are just joking but then I realize that you are being serious and then I worry about you... I agree with KWRBT that you really need to do some self-evaluation and find out what is so wrong about your world view... I can't help you...

i love my CURRENT world view thank you.

You love it because you hate yourself.  It's not healthy, ben.

[Ben m]

you still didn't quoted me.

.  You must really want to be like me ben.   You fear me, yet you want to be me.  Sounds about right.

is this a joke? who wants to be like YOU.definetly not ME.

Sometimes it seems like you ben are the joke here... I occasionally want to give you the benefit of the doubt so I think you are just joking but then I realize that you are being serious and then I worry about you... I agree with KWRBT that you really need to do some self-evaluation and find out what is so wrong about your world view... I can't help you...

i love my CURRENT world view thank you.

You love it because you hate yourself.  It's not healthy, ben.

i am not hating myself i hate my enemies and people with double standards like muman for example.

[דוד בן זאב אריה]

I have to put my 2 cents in here. NO a big NO Jews are Jews are Jews. So what if we talk differently or look different or hav different customs Jews are Jews are Jews are Jews. I am sick of these divides that try and divide Jews into differect groups that is what the Nazis YS'V did and I sure as hell am not going create unnessary divides.