Is Israeli Supreme Court Really This Wicked?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Here is one of the latest articles on A7 about this issue:

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/Articles/Article.aspx/9562

Emanuel: Not an Ethnic Schism
Tammuz 9, 5770, 21 June 10 02:40
by David Bedein

Who is David Bedein?

And is he really this stupid?


What he is saying has absolutely zero relation to what occurred in the case at hand, and I don't know if he is misrepresenting the current case because he is ignorant of the facts, or he is making an invalid comparison because he is deceptive or can't recognize a non-sequitor and can't separate irrelevant material from relevant material.  Either way, this constitutes gross negligence that should not be tolerated by any professional news corporation.

There was a particular Sephardic woman in Emanuel whose daughter was rejected by the school in Emanuel because the standards of religious observance of her daughter and of her family did not meet the requirements of the school.

What woman?  When?  What year?  Who?   Which school?   What requirements exactly?   How did they not fit?

This is cheap journalistic trash.

That Sephardic woman was media savvy.

She contacted the New Israel Fund, the Shas Party and just about every reporter whom she could get a hold of and claimed that she was being discriminated against because she was a Separdic Jew. 

Maybe she was.   But what does this hypothetical woman have to do with the current situation?   Zero, Nada, ZILCH.   Whoever this mystery woman is, whatever she did (whenever she supposedly did it) tells us nothing about the current case under examination in the courts and discussed in the media.

The NIF, Shas and the media had a field day, and condemned the school in Emanual for "racist and discriminatory behavior".

Maybe there was racist behavior.   Are Shas and NIF always wrong just because they are evil?    Or maybe it was political opportunism and dishonest.   Who cares?   We have no idea what case he refers to or how it's relevant to our case.

The NIF and Shas, strange bedfellows as they are, sued in the Israel High Court of Justice to demand that the Israel High Court of Justice order the school in Emanuel to admit the less observant Separdic girls into their school.

When? 

The NIF and Shas were successful in their suit, and the Israel High Court of Justice demanded that any parent who refused to send their children to school under such circumstances be jailed.

Huh?  He has morphed his mystery-woman case into today's case.   

And, indeed, 61 sets of parents announced that they were ready to go to jail rather than admit the less observant Sephardic girls to the school.

27 of those sets of parents are themselves Sephardic Jews. 

Flat out lies.   

Does that fact affect the NIF and Shas?

Why should it when NIF and SHas have nothing to do with the current supreme court case.


This guy Bedein should be FIRED.   For news like what he presents here, one could just listen to local housewives gossip.


Now on to the facts.

SHAS has absolutely nothing to do with this.  In fact, many Sephardim are angry with Shas for not condemning the racism in Emanuel.   In fact, Shas party chairman Eli Yishai spun a statement of Rabbi Ovadia Yosef to imply that he condemned his own son to loss of Olam Haba (Is Yishai really that stupid that he expects us to believe what he attributes to Rabbi Ovadia?   Simply more manipulation of gedolim)  - Loss of Olam Haba for ADVISING Laloum to go to the secular courts.

Laloum by the way is the name of the MAN who raised this complaint in the courts.   Mystery woman is unheard of.   Laloum is the one with death threats on him by certain deviant thugs within the ashkenazi haredim, and Laloum is the one who heads an organization whose goal is to prevent and counteract cases of discrimination against Sephardim ACCORDING TO HALACHA.   His halachic adviser, ie his Rav, is Rabbi Yakov Yosef Shlita - The son of Rabbi Ovadiah Yosef.   The particular son btw who opposed his father for his father's support for Oslo Shoah, but let's not get off topic.

Rabbi Yakov Yosef has not only received death threats, he has been physically attacked by so-called chasidim, and his children and grandchildren have been threatened.   What a disgusting display.  A disgrace.  A gargantuan chillul Hashem by these people who think they have the monopoly on the truth and on the Torah and think they can impose it on others by violence.   Rabbi Yakov Yosef is not a reform rabbi.  And there is no way in hell that his father condemns him to lose Olam Haba.   

Rabbi Ovadiah Yosef's statement makes sense in only one situation.   In a case where a person chose to forego a beit din and go straight to secular courts.   But that is not what happened here.   Thus, his statement as cited by the Shas gangsters is not relevant.    The chassidim were summoned to a Din Torah and they refused to show up.  In such a scenario, the halacha gives a person recourse to utilize the secular authorities.    No loss of Olam Haba.

Thus Shas did not lead this case, it actually criticized the case for utilizing secular courts.  But even shas admits there was discrimination, just that the secular courts are not the place to solve it.  See Jpost article which I can cite for you if you like.  Just another evil manipulation and betrayal and distortion of the truth by Shas party criminals.

Now some more facts.   Laloum is haredi.   The parents in question who approached his organization are haredi.   The school is a MACHMIR Beis Yakov.  You really think they would have admitted secular students?   And they didn't.  Because there are other schools in the town where secular students can go.   The complaint was raised when AFTER all the admitted students began their school year, all of a sudden the school put up separations between two groups within the classes.  They literally put up separation walls.   In classrooms, in recess.   And take a guess on what lines were defined the separation. 

The NIF has nothing to do with this.   

David Bedein should be fired.   But how can you swallow his lies muman without any critical thinking?   We have already discussed many relevant facts in this case that completely go against his science fiction tirade.   Now I hope I never have to see Bedein's stupidity and two-bit journalism on this website again.

[Ben m]

ammmmmm yes.but i heard that there is a problem with this particular hasidut (slonim).and besides i will repatto you what our physics teacher had saidto us in the begining of our 7th grade: ideals exists only in theory and never in the expriment.

That statement only makes sense in the context of physics.   You can't extend that to life in general.   
In Newtonian Physics which you studied in 7th grade, the forces of friction, air resistance etc are neglected and ignored for the sake of calculations and various problems.   But in reality those forces really exist and contribute significantly to any real physics scenario or real problem.   So knowing the Newtonian Physics is only the foundation to solve a real problem.   But even with physics, you still need to know Newtonian Physics for the problem first or else there is nothing to say.

But in life, ideals do not mean neglecting significant forces for the sake of calculations.   Ideal is something that the Torah demands and that sincere Torah-observant people strive for.   It does exist in the "experiment" and to varying degrees and levels of success.   But for people who ignore the ideal, of course it will NEVER express itself in the results, and that's a guarantee based on simple logic.

physics are applied to every subject in our lives.this is whyit is the ultimate science.

[muman613]

KWRBT,

Please provide some links to support your claims. I am just learning the facts and to me it still seems like the Sephardim are not discriminated against because they are Sephardim, simply because they do not meet the requirements of the Chassidic tract of the school...

Please provide some support for your argument.

[muman613]

ammmmmm yes.but i heard that there is a problem with this particular hasidut (slonim).and besides i will repatto you what our physics teacher had saidto us in the begining of our 7th grade: ideals exists only in theory and never in the expriment.

That statement only makes sense in the context of physics.   You can't extend that to life in general.   
In Newtonian Physics which you studied in 7th grade, the forces of friction, air resistance etc are neglected and ignored for the sake of calculations and various problems.   But in reality those forces really exist and contribute significantly to any real physics scenario or real problem.   So knowing the Newtonian Physics is only the foundation to solve a real problem.   But even with physics, you still need to know Newtonian Physics for the problem first or else there is nothing to say.

But in life, ideals do not mean neglecting significant forces for the sake of calculations.   Ideal is something that the Torah demands and that sincere Torah-observant people strive for.   It does exist in the "experiment" and to varying degrees and levels of success.   But for people who ignore the ideal, of course it will NEVER express itself in the results, and that's a guarantee based on simple logic.

physics are applied to every subject in our lives.this is whyit is the ultimate science.

Of course G-d is limited by physics in your world... But that is not the case in real life... You only believe in things you can see, touch, taste, or feel... That is your limitation.

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

ammmmmm yes.but i heard that there is a problem with this particular hasidut (slonim).and besides i will repatto you what our physics teacher had saidto us in the begining of our 7th grade: ideals exists only in theory and never in the expriment.

That statement only makes sense in the context of physics.   You can't extend that to life in general.   
In Newtonian Physics which you studied in 7th grade, the forces of friction, air resistance etc are neglected and ignored for the sake of calculations and various problems.   But in reality those forces really exist and contribute significantly to any real physics scenario or real problem.   So knowing the Newtonian Physics is only the foundation to solve a real problem.   But even with physics, you still need to know Newtonian Physics for the problem first or else there is nothing to say.

But in life, ideals do not mean neglecting significant forces for the sake of calculations.   Ideal is something that the Torah demands and that sincere Torah-observant people strive for.   It does exist in the "experiment" and to varying degrees and levels of success.   But for people who ignore the ideal, of course it will NEVER express itself in the results, and that's a guarantee based on simple logic.

physics are applied to every subject in our lives.this is whyit is the ultimate science.

Of course G-d is limited by physics in your world... But that is not the case in real life... You only believe in things you can see, touch, taste, or feel... That is your limitation.

The final debate has begun.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

ammmmmm yes.but i heard that there is a problem with this particular hasidut (slonim).and besides i will repatto you what our physics teacher had saidto us in the begining of our 7th grade: ideals exists only in theory and never in the expriment.

That statement only makes sense in the context of physics.   You can't extend that to life in general.   
In Newtonian Physics which you studied in 7th grade, the forces of friction, air resistance etc are neglected and ignored for the sake of calculations and various problems.   But in reality those forces really exist and contribute significantly to any real physics scenario or real problem.   So knowing the Newtonian Physics is only the foundation to solve a real problem.   But even with physics, you still need to know Newtonian Physics for the problem first or else there is nothing to say.

But in life, ideals do not mean neglecting significant forces for the sake of calculations.   Ideal is something that the Torah demands and that sincere Torah-observant people strive for.   It does exist in the "experiment" and to varying degrees and levels of success.   But for people who ignore the ideal, of course it will NEVER express itself in the results, and that's a guarantee based on simple logic.

physics are applied to every subject in our lives.this is whyit is the ultimate science.

What gobbledy gook are you saying?   Did they teach you this in Israeli gym class?

What you said has no relation to what I said.

[Zelhar]

The slonim chasidim in Emanuel did actually discriminate against mizrachim. Some of them are definitely racists. They took over a charedi school which is fully funded by the state and abused their power. In short, they were on the wrong side. Now there is merit to the chasidim wishes to keep their own traditions like praying in the ashkenazi pronunciation etc. But they should have sent their daughters to a separate private school rather than take over that school.

The thing is, bagatz didn't just ended the discrimination in the school. It decided that the chasidim must send their daughters to the school and wouldn't allow them to switch schools until the end of the year. There is no law forniding pupils from switching schools midyear, but apparently bagatz can make its own rules as it sees fit. The defiance of the chasidim against this bagatz forcing them to send their children to a school they don't want is completely justifiable. Now to top on that, bagatz held the parents in contempt and decreed that they should all be sent to prison for 10 days I believe. Husbands wives and babies imprisoned and leaving behind large families with no parent. So the women didn't comply and for now they are still free and it seems bagatz would have to reassess its outrageous decree and let the women stay out of prison.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

The slonim chasidim in Emanuel did actually discriminate against mizrachim. Some of them are definitely racists. They took over a charedi school which is fully funded by the state and abused their power. In short, they were on the wrong side. Now there is merit to the chasidim wishes to keep their own traditions like praying in the ashkenazi pronunciation etc. But they should have sent their daughters to a separate private school rather than take over that school.

The thing is, bagatz didn't just ended the discrimination in the school. It decided that the chasidim must send their daughters to the school and wouldn't allow them to switch schools until the end of the year. There is no law forniding pupils from switching schools midyear, but apparently bagatz can make its own rules as it sees fit. The defiance of the chasidim against this bagatz forcing them to send their children to a school they don't want is completely justifiable. Now to top on that, bagatz held the parents in contempt and decreed that they should all be sent to prison for 10 days I believe. Husbands wives and babies imprisoned and leaving behind large families with no parent. So the women didn't comply and for now they are still free and it seems bagatz would have to reassess its outrageous decree and let the women stay out of prison.

Well said.  I agree with you completely.

[Ben m]

ammmmmm yes.but i heard that there is a problem with this particular hasidut (slonim).and besides i will repatto you what our physics teacher had saidto us in the begining of our 7th grade: ideals exists only in theory and never in the expriment.

That statement only makes sense in the context of physics.   You can't extend that to life in general.   
In Newtonian Physics which you studied in 7th grade, the forces of friction, air resistance etc are neglected and ignored for the sake of calculations and various problems.   But in reality those forces really exist and contribute significantly to any real physics scenario or real problem.   So knowing the Newtonian Physics is only the foundation to solve a real problem.   But even with physics, you still need to know Newtonian Physics for the problem first or else there is nothing to say.

But in life, ideals do not mean neglecting significant forces for the sake of calculations.   Ideal is something that the Torah demands and that sincere Torah-observant people strive for.   It does exist in the "experiment" and to varying degrees and levels of success.   But for people who ignore the ideal, of course it will NEVER express itself in the results, and that's a guarantee based on simple logic.

physics are applied to every subject in our lives.this is whyit is the ultimate science.

Of course G-d is limited by physics in your world... But that is not the case in real life... You only believe in things you can see, touch, taste, or feel... That is your limitation.

everything in the universe is limited by physical laws.if you beleive yougod is above the physics law than you god can't exist.

[muman613]

ammmmmm yes.but i heard that there is a problem with this particular hasidut (slonim).and besides i will repatto you what our physics teacher had saidto us in the begining of our 7th grade: ideals exists only in theory and never in the expriment.

That statement only makes sense in the context of physics.   You can't extend that to life in general.   
In Newtonian Physics which you studied in 7th grade, the forces of friction, air resistance etc are neglected and ignored for the sake of calculations and various problems.   But in reality those forces really exist and contribute significantly to any real physics scenario or real problem.   So knowing the Newtonian Physics is only the foundation to solve a real problem.   But even with physics, you still need to know Newtonian Physics for the problem first or else there is nothing to say.

But in life, ideals do not mean neglecting significant forces for the sake of calculations.   Ideal is something that the Torah demands and that sincere Torah-observant people strive for.   It does exist in the "experiment" and to varying degrees and levels of success.   But for people who ignore the ideal, of course it will NEVER express itself in the results, and that's a guarantee based on simple logic.

physics are applied to every subject in our lives.this is whyit is the ultimate science.

Of course G-d is limited by physics in your world... But that is not the case in real life... You only believe in things you can see, touch, taste, or feel... That is your limitation.

everything in the universe is limited by physical laws.if you beleive yougod is above the physics law than you G-d can't exist.

G-d is bigger than the Universe, he created it, and he also created time so he has no limitations... You cannot grasp that because you have such a small brain.

[Ben m]

ammmmmm yes.but i heard that there is a problem with this particular hasidut (slonim).and besides i will repatto you what our physics teacher had saidto us in the begining of our 7th grade: ideals exists only in theory and never in the expriment.

That statement only makes sense in the context of physics.   You can't extend that to life in general.   
In Newtonian Physics which you studied in 7th grade, the forces of friction, air resistance etc are neglected and ignored for the sake of calculations and various problems.   But in reality those forces really exist and contribute significantly to any real physics scenario or real problem.   So knowing the Newtonian Physics is only the foundation to solve a real problem.   But even with physics, you still need to know Newtonian Physics for the problem first or else there is nothing to say.

But in life, ideals do not mean neglecting significant forces for the sake of calculations.   Ideal is something that the Torah demands and that sincere Torah-observant people strive for.   It does exist in the "experiment" and to varying degrees and levels of success.   But for people who ignore the ideal, of course it will NEVER express itself in the results, and that's a guarantee based on simple logic.

physics are applied to every subject in our lives.this is whyit is the ultimate science.

Of course G-d is limited by physics in your world... But that is not the case in real life... You only believe in things you can see, touch, taste, or feel... That is your limitation.

everything in the universe is limited by physical laws.if you beleive yougod is above the physics law than you G-d can't exist.

G-d is bigger than the Universe, he created it, and he also created time so he has no limitations... You cannot grasp that because you have such a small brain.

i have a small brain? you just can't grab that the universe has limitations.sorry to burst your buble but your god can't be above the natural law.if you will bring me a proof  fora god that is limited by the laws of physics i would be inclined to belive in him.

[muman613]

ammmmmm yes.but i heard that there is a problem with this particular hasidut (slonim).and besides i will repatto you what our physics teacher had saidto us in the begining of our 7th grade: ideals exists only in theory and never in the expriment.

That statement only makes sense in the context of physics.   You can't extend that to life in general.   
In Newtonian Physics which you studied in 7th grade, the forces of friction, air resistance etc are neglected and ignored for the sake of calculations and various problems.   But in reality those forces really exist and contribute significantly to any real physics scenario or real problem.   So knowing the Newtonian Physics is only the foundation to solve a real problem.   But even with physics, you still need to know Newtonian Physics for the problem first or else there is nothing to say.

But in life, ideals do not mean neglecting significant forces for the sake of calculations.   Ideal is something that the Torah demands and that sincere Torah-observant people strive for.   It does exist in the "experiment" and to varying degrees and levels of success.   But for people who ignore the ideal, of course it will NEVER express itself in the results, and that's a guarantee based on simple logic.

physics are applied to every subject in our lives.this is whyit is the ultimate science.

Of course G-d is limited by physics in your world... But that is not the case in real life... You only believe in things you can see, touch, taste, or feel... That is your limitation.

everything in the universe is limited by physical laws.if you beleive yougod is above the physics law than you G-d can't exist.

G-d is bigger than the Universe, he created it, and he also created time so he has no limitations... You cannot grasp that because you have such a small brain.

i have a small brain? you just can't grab that the universe has limitations.sorry to burst your buble but your G-d can't be above the natural law.if you will bring me a proof  fora G-d that is limited by the laws of physics i would be inclined to belive in him.

You demonstrate your lack of understanding in every posting. G-d cannot be proven by science because he created the natural laws, he is bigger than any infinity you can imagine, he is smaller than any particle you can think of. Asking for physical proof of G-d is a futile effort, one can only feel his presence in the world. You have cut yourself off from this.. That is your choosing... And science is not the problem ben, there are plenty of wonderful and productive scientists who believe in G-d.

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

ammmmmm yes.but i heard that there is a problem with this particular hasidut (slonim).and besides i will repatto you what our physics teacher had saidto us in the begining of our 7th grade: ideals exists only in theory and never in the expriment.

That statement only makes sense in the context of physics.   You can't extend that to life in general.   
In Newtonian Physics which you studied in 7th grade, the forces of friction, air resistance etc are neglected and ignored for the sake of calculations and various problems.   But in reality those forces really exist and contribute significantly to any real physics scenario or real problem.   So knowing the Newtonian Physics is only the foundation to solve a real problem.   But even with physics, you still need to know Newtonian Physics for the problem first or else there is nothing to say.

But in life, ideals do not mean neglecting significant forces for the sake of calculations.   Ideal is something that the Torah demands and that sincere Torah-observant people strive for.   It does exist in the "experiment" and to varying degrees and levels of success.   But for people who ignore the ideal, of course it will NEVER express itself in the results, and that's a guarantee based on simple logic.

physics are applied to every subject in our lives.this is whyit is the ultimate science.

Of course G-d is limited by physics in your world... But that is not the case in real life... You only believe in things you can see, touch, taste, or feel... That is your limitation.

everything in the universe is limited by physical laws.if you beleive yougod is above the physics law than you G-d can't exist.

G-d is bigger than the Universe, he created it, and he also created time so he has no limitations... You cannot grasp that because you have such a small brain.

i have a small brain? you just can't grab that the universe has limitations.sorry to burst your buble but your G-d can't be above the natural law.if you will bring me a proof  fora G-d that is limited by the laws of physics i would be inclined to belive in him.

Same stupid old "Can G-D create a rock that he cannot lift?" argument. First ignore the definition of G-D, then ignore reason.

[Ben m]

ammmmmm yes.but i heard that there is a problem with this particular hasidut (slonim).and besides i will repatto you what our physics teacher had saidto us in the begining of our 7th grade: ideals exists only in theory and never in the expriment.

That statement only makes sense in the context of physics.   You can't extend that to life in general.   
In Newtonian Physics which you studied in 7th grade, the forces of friction, air resistance etc are neglected and ignored for the sake of calculations and various problems.   But in reality those forces really exist and contribute significantly to any real physics scenario or real problem.   So knowing the Newtonian Physics is only the foundation to solve a real problem.   But even with physics, you still need to know Newtonian Physics for the problem first or else there is nothing to say.

But in life, ideals do not mean neglecting significant forces for the sake of calculations.   Ideal is something that the Torah demands and that sincere Torah-observant people strive for.   It does exist in the "experiment" and to varying degrees and levels of success.   But for people who ignore the ideal, of course it will NEVER express itself in the results, and that's a guarantee based on simple logic.

physics are applied to every subject in our lives.this is whyit is the ultimate science.

Of course G-d is limited by physics in your world... But that is not the case in real life... You only believe in things you can see, touch, taste, or feel... That is your limitation.

everything in the universe is limited by physical laws.if you beleive yougod is above the physics law than you G-d can't exist.

That would be like saying George Lucas can't exist because he is not governed by the laws of the Star Wars universe.  G-d exists outside the physical universe that He created.  He made the physical laws apply to the physical universe but not to Him.

so tell me.how he created the universe?

[muman613]

ammmmmm yes.but i heard that there is a problem with this particular hasidut (slonim).and besides i will repatto you what our physics teacher had saidto us in the begining of our 7th grade: ideals exists only in theory and never in the expriment.

That statement only makes sense in the context of physics.   You can't extend that to life in general.   
In Newtonian Physics which you studied in 7th grade, the forces of friction, air resistance etc are neglected and ignored for the sake of calculations and various problems.   But in reality those forces really exist and contribute significantly to any real physics scenario or real problem.   So knowing the Newtonian Physics is only the foundation to solve a real problem.   But even with physics, you still need to know Newtonian Physics for the problem first or else there is nothing to say.

But in life, ideals do not mean neglecting significant forces for the sake of calculations.   Ideal is something that the Torah demands and that sincere Torah-observant people strive for.   It does exist in the "experiment" and to varying degrees and levels of success.   But for people who ignore the ideal, of course it will NEVER express itself in the results, and that's a guarantee based on simple logic.

physics are applied to every subject in our lives.this is whyit is the ultimate science.

Of course G-d is limited by physics in your world... But that is not the case in real life... You only believe in things you can see, touch, taste, or feel... That is your limitation.

everything in the universe is limited by physical laws.if you beleive yougod is above the physics law than you G-d can't exist.

That would be like saying George Lucas can't exist because he is not governed by the laws of the Star Wars universe.  G-d exists outside the physical universe that He created.  He made the physical laws apply to the physical universe but not to Him.

so tell me.how he created the universe?

Ben, it would be a waste of time trying to explain to you how Hashem created the universe. At this time all we know is what Hashem told us, and science is trying to observe as much as it can. We can say that Hashem certainly existed before the 'big bang' which physics has been theorizing is the start of all physicality which we know. Hashem existed before time and before space, as they were some of the first things created according to the Torah.

http://www.aish.com/ci/sam/48951136.html

[Ben m]

ammmmmm yes.but i heard that there is a problem with this particular hasidut (slonim).and besides i will repatto you what our physics teacher had saidto us in the begining of our 7th grade: ideals exists only in theory and never in the expriment.

That statement only makes sense in the context of physics.   You can't extend that to life in general.   
In Newtonian Physics which you studied in 7th grade, the forces of friction, air resistance etc are neglected and ignored for the sake of calculations and various problems.   But in reality those forces really exist and contribute significantly to any real physics scenario or real problem.   So knowing the Newtonian Physics is only the foundation to solve a real problem.   But even with physics, you still need to know Newtonian Physics for the problem first or else there is nothing to say.

But in life, ideals do not mean neglecting significant forces for the sake of calculations.   Ideal is something that the Torah demands and that sincere Torah-observant people strive for.   It does exist in the "experiment" and to varying degrees and levels of success.   But for people who ignore the ideal, of course it will NEVER express itself in the results, and that's a guarantee based on simple logic.

physics are applied to every subject in our lives.this is whyit is the ultimate science.

Of course G-d is limited by physics in your world... But that is not the case in real life... You only believe in things you can see, touch, taste, or feel... That is your limitation.

everything in the universe is limited by physical laws.if you beleive yougod is above the physics law than you G-d can't exist.

G-d is bigger than the Universe, he created it, and he also created time so he has no limitations... You cannot grasp that because you have such a small brain.

i have a small brain? you just can't grab that the universe has limitations.sorry to burst your buble but your G-d can't be above the natural law.if you will bring me a proof  fora G-d that is limited by the laws of physics i would be inclined to belive in him.

one can only feel his presence in the world. You have cut yourself off from this.. That is your choosing.

oh realy? one can feel god's presence? you know what.i don''t need to feel his presence.i just open the news and see the result of his presence.foolds,diseases,hunger,islam.this is you god? or this is satan? or maybe they are the same being and god ust pretend to be a mlevolent person.

[muman613]

<snip>


oh realy? one can feel G-d's presence? you know what.i don''t need to feel his presence.i just open the news and see the result of his presence.foolds,diseases,hunger,islam.this is you G-d? or this is satan? or maybe they are the same being and G-d ust pretend to be a mlevolent person.

Yes G-d expresses himself in the day-to-day operation of the world. Hashem created 'Satan' in order to challenge us. I do not think that you are ready to understand the reason for good and evil in the world because you only believe in things that you can see... If you are interested there are good reasons for each of the things you mentioned..

You seem to believe in a dualist nature which is not Jewish at all... Hashem creates both Light and Dark, Good an Evil... Free will is what determines if we succeed or fail in our mission.

[Ben m]

ammmmmm yes.but i heard that there is a problem with this particular hasidut (slonim).and besides i will repatto you what our physics teacher had saidto us in the begining of our 7th grade: ideals exists only in theory and never in the expriment.

That statement only makes sense in the context of physics.   You can't extend that to life in general.   
In Newtonian Physics which you studied in 7th grade, the forces of friction, air resistance etc are neglected and ignored for the sake of calculations and various problems.   But in reality those forces really exist and contribute significantly to any real physics scenario or real problem.   So knowing the Newtonian Physics is only the foundation to solve a real problem.   But even with physics, you still need to know Newtonian Physics for the problem first or else there is nothing to say.

But in life, ideals do not mean neglecting significant forces for the sake of calculations.   Ideal is something that the Torah demands and that sincere Torah-observant people strive for.   It does exist in the "experiment" and to varying degrees and levels of success.   But for people who ignore the ideal, of course it will NEVER express itself in the results, and that's a guarantee based on simple logic.

physics are applied to every subject in our lives.this is whyit is the ultimate science.

Of course G-d is limited by physics in your world... But that is not the case in real life... You only believe in things you can see, touch, taste, or feel... That is your limitation.

everything in the universe is limited by physical laws.if you beleive yougod is above the physics law than you G-d can't exist.

That would be like saying George Lucas can't exist because he is not governed by the laws of the Star Wars universe.  G-d exists outside the physical universe that He created.  He made the physical laws apply to the physical universe but not to Him.

so tell me.how he created the universe?

Ben, it would be a waste of time trying to explain to you how Hashem created the universe. At this time all we know is what Hashem told us, and science is trying to observe as much as it can. We can say that Hashem certainly existed before the 'big bang' which physics has been theorizing is the start of all physicality which we know. Hashem existed before time and before space, as they were some of the first things created according to the Torah.

http://www.aish.com/ci/sam/48951136.html

we surely don't need god to explain the big bang.it could be aliens (i don't beleive that but it is still legit like your argument that god is responsible to the big bang is legit) or it could be just a freak random accident.

[muman613]

One thing is certain in my mind ben... Your birth was the biggest accident ever...

Grow up my 'fiend'...

[Ben m]

<snip>


oh realy? one can feel G-d's presence? you know what.i don''t need to feel his presence.i just open the news and see the result of his presence.foolds,diseases,hunger,islam.this is you G-d? or this is satan? or maybe they are the same being and G-d ust pretend to be a mlevolent person.

Yes G-d expresses himself in the day-to-day operation of the world. Hashem created 'Satan' in order to challenge us. I do not think that you are ready to understand the reason for good and evil in the world because you only believe in things that you can see... If you are interested there are good reasons for each of the things you mentioned..

You seem to believe in a dualist nature which is not Jewish at all... Hashem creates both Light and Dark, Good an Evil... Free will is what determines if we succeed or fail in our mission.

no i am not a dualist. i am a pessimistic,i see everyday how the world is going to hell.and by your arguments it is your godwho is responsible.

[Ben m]

One thing is certain in my mind ben... Your birth was the biggest accident ever...

Grow up my 'fiend'...

my birth was the greatest gift your god could possibly was able to sent for man kind.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Ben, it would be a waste of time trying to explain to you how Hashem created the universe. At this time all we know is what Hashem told us, and science is trying to observe as much as it can. We can say that Hashem certainly existed before the 'big bang' which physics has been theorizing is the start of all physicality which we know. Hashem existed before time and before space, as they were some of the first things created according to the Torah.

http://www.aish.com/ci/sam/48951136.html

we surely don't need G-d to explain the big bang.

Of course we don't, but that wasn't what Muman claimed.  In fact, he claimed exactly the opposite.  He is pointing out a very important point which is that G-d preceded the physical world.   So a physical phenomenon such as the Big Bang which occurred in time and space, is quite obviously after G-d's creation of the world.  And to seek to explain that in any other way than scientific explanations of the physical world would be foolhardy and misguided.   So Muman was correct, and you haven't offered anything here.

[Ben m]

Ben, it would be a waste of time trying to explain to you how Hashem created the universe. At this time all we know is what Hashem told us, and science is trying to observe as much as it can. We can say that Hashem certainly existed before the 'big bang' which physics has been theorizing is the start of all physicality which we know. Hashem existed before time and before space, as they were some of the first things created according to the Torah.

http://www.aish.com/ci/sam/48951136.html

we surely don't need G-d to explain the big bang.

Of course we don't, but that wasn't what Muman claimed.  In fact, he claimed exactly the opposite.  He is pointing out a very important point which is that G-d preceded the physical world.   So a physical phenomenon such as the Big Bang which occurred in time and space, is quite obviously after G-d's creation of the world.  And to seek to explain that in any other way than scientific explanations of the physical world would be foolhardy misguided.   So Muman was correct, and you haven't offered anything here.

acording to steven hocking godthe big bang is the beginingof time.and surely the begnining of space.

[muman613]

Ben, it would be a waste of time trying to explain to you how Hashem created the universe. At this time all we know is what Hashem told us, and science is trying to observe as much as it can. We can say that Hashem certainly existed before the 'big bang' which physics has been theorizing is the start of all physicality which we know. Hashem existed before time and before space, as they were some of the first things created according to the Torah.

http://www.aish.com/ci/sam/48951136.html

we surely don't need G-d to explain the big bang.

Of course we don't, but that wasn't what Muman claimed.  In fact, he claimed exactly the opposite.  He is pointing out a very important point which is that G-d preceded the physical world.   So a physical phenomenon such as the Big Bang which occurred in time and space, is quite obviously after G-d's creation of the world.  And to seek to explain that in any other way than scientific explanations of the physical world would be foolhardy misguided.   So Muman was correct, and you haven't offered anything here.

acording to steven hocking godthe big bang is the beginingof time.and surely the begnining of space.

What existed before the 'big bang'?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Ben, it would be a waste of time trying to explain to you how Hashem created the universe. At this time all we know is what Hashem told us, and science is trying to observe as much as it can. We can say that Hashem certainly existed before the 'big bang' which physics has been theorizing is the start of all physicality which we know. Hashem existed before time and before space, as they were some of the first things created according to the Torah.

http://www.aish.com/ci/sam/48951136.html

we surely don't need G-d to explain the big bang.

Of course we don't, but that wasn't what Muman claimed.  In fact, he claimed exactly the opposite.  He is pointing out a very important point which is that G-d preceded the physical world.   So a physical phenomenon such as the Big Bang which occurred in time and space, is quite obviously after G-d's creation of the world.  And to seek to explain that in any other way than scientific explanations of the physical world would be foolhardy misguided.   So Muman was correct, and you haven't offered anything here.

acording to steven hocking godthe big bang is the beginingof time.and surely the begnining of space.

Simply not true.   That is not Steven Hawking.