Author Topic: Falwell left Jews with mixed feelings?  (Read 5790 times)

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Offline Shlomo

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Falwell left Jews with mixed feelings?
« on: May 17, 2007, 07:08:13 PM »
I'm not sure how I feel about this article...

Pro-Israel founder of Moral Majority, Falwell left Jews with mixed feelings
By Ron Kampeas
http://www.jta.org/cgi%2Dbin/iowa/news/article/20070515Falwellobit.html


The Rev. Jerry Falwell speaks at a Christians United For Israel news conference in Washington on July 19, 2006.

The Rev. Jerry Falwell, like his beloved phrase "Judeo-Christian nation," evinced mixed feeling among Jews: It's nice you want to get together, but is it a good idea?

Falwell, the televangelist who helped steer America rightward when he founded the Moral Majority nearly 30 years ago, died Tuesday in Lynchburg, Va., on the campus of Liberty University, which he founded. He was 73.

Statements from Jewish leaders about his death were duly respectful of a man who loved Israel, but were qualified also by his embrace of values that alienated most American Jews.

"I admired Reverend Falwell’s understanding that despite our differences, there were areas of agreement between us, above all our deep and profound commitment to the safety and well-being of the State of Israel," said Rabbi Eric Yoffie, president of the Union for Reform Judaism.

That "despite" cropped up again in a statement from Abraham Foxman, national director of the Anti-Defamation League.

"Despite our many disagreements through the years, we were saddened to learn of the loss of the Rev. Jerry Falwell," Foxman said. "He was a passionate leader of Christianity in America and a dear friend of Israel."

Falwell was among the first evangelical leaders to make clear that presidential candidates must show deference to the U.S.-Israel alliance if they wanted his constituency's support.

"It is my belief that the Bible Belt in America is Israel's only safety belt right now," Falwell told CBS News in 2002.

In 1999, he pledged that 200,000 evangelical ministers would keep Congress from pressuring Israel to concede more territory to the PLO/Hamas Arab Muslim Nazis.

Falwell had an especially close relationship with Israel's prime minister at the time, Benjamin Netanyahu, who rankled U.S. Jews by embracing the evangelist so readily.

Israel's ambassador to the United States, Sallai Meridor, conveyed his condolences Tuesday to Falwell's family and followers.

"It was with both shock and sorrow that I learned of the tragic and sudden passing of Rev. Dr. Jerry Falwell, whose support for Israel spanned many decades," Meridor said in a statement.

Falwell's dedication made him invaluable, said Mort Klein, leader of the Zionist Organization of America.

"Jews should have appreciated his virtually unconditional support more than we did," Klein said. "We should also have appreciated that his deep support for Israel came from strong belief in the Torah, in the Bible."

Falwell's passing means "one less important voice of support at a time when Israel needs all the support it can get in a world hostile toward it and getting more hostile," Klein said. "It's a sad day for Zionists and those of us who love Israel."

Still, even Klein acknowledged that "Falwell made many inappropriate and controversial statements."

Most notoriously for Jews, in 1999 Falwell speculated that the Antichrist – the satanic figure whose presence would presage the return of Jesus – was alive and Jewish.

"When he appears during the Tribulation period he will be a full-grown counterfeit of Christ," Falwell told followers at a Tennessee gathering. "Of course he'll be Jewish."

That set off a fierce storm of criticism from Jewish leaders, who said Falwell was appealing to the basest anti-Semitic sentiments.

Falwell apologized and explained that he was simply expressing the theological tenet that the Antichrist and Christ share many attributes.

Falwell went out of his way to reach out to Jews. In 2003 he expressed understanding for the belief of a minority of evangelical preachers that Jews don't need to convert to get into heaven, though he stopped short of endorsing the view.

Last year he welcomed Yoffie to Liberty University to speak to students about shared causes, especially mutual concern about the debasement of sex in popular culture. When Yoffie made the case for legal protection of gay couples as a religious value, some students booed. Falwell shushed them, saying he had never been booed in a synagogue.

"He introduced me to his students with real excitement, and when it seemed to him that they were acting inappropriately, he stood up and defended my right to speak, even when I was saying things with which I knew he would disagree," Yoffie recalled.

Foxman recalled long dialogues with Falwell, saying he was a man who was willing to listen and change his mind. Foxman recalled a meeting in the mid-1990s with a group of Jewish leaders, including himself, when Falwell agreed to stop using "Christian nation" to describe the United States and instead switched to "Judeo-Christian nation."

Yet even that term rankled many Jews who subscribe to a vision of America that unhitches religion from state, and others who believe that the term tries to bridge unbridgeable theological gaps.

"Judaism is Judaism because it rejects Christianity, and Christianity is Christianity because it rejects Judaism," Rabbi Eliezer Berkovits once wrote.

Foxman dismissed those concerns.

"It was certainly better than Christian nation," he told JTA.

Rabbi David Saperstein, director of the Religious Action Center of Reform Judaism in Washington, said the term was of little consequence.

"It didn't make his vision of the role of religion in America any more palatable," said Saperstein, who often faced Falwell in televised debates.

"Many Jews were deeply concerned by the divisive rhetoric that he used, the politicization of faith and efforts to Christianize America," he said.

Falwell's most notorious comments came after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks when he blamed pro-choice activists, gay activists and civil libertarians for calling down divine retribution.

"I point the finger in their face and say you helped this happen," Falwell said on the "700 Club," fellow televangelist Pat Robertson's show.

Yet Saperstein credited Falwell for undergoing a change in his later years and expanding his Christian vision to embrace causes that united liberals and conservatives, including ending the Darfur genocide and rolling back the AIDS epidemic.

"That was part of the paradox of who he was," Saperstein said.
"In the final analysis, for the believer there are no questions, and for the non-believer there are no answers." -Chofetz Chaim

Offline Trumpeldor

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Re: Falwell left Jews with mixed feelings?
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2007, 07:21:27 PM »
MLK didn't leave Jews with mixed feelings, however.

Offline MasterWolf1

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Re: Falwell left Jews with mixed feelings?
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2007, 07:43:58 PM »
MLK is mixed with fertalizer in the dirt and his farce so called legacy with it.
RIGHT WING AMERICAN AND PROUD OF IT. IF YOU WANTED TO PROVE YOU WEREN'T A "RACIST" IN 2008 BY VOTING FOR OBAMA, THEN PROVE IN 2012 YOU ARE NOT AN IDIOT FOR VOTING AGAINST OBAMA!

Offline RationalThought110

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Re: Falwell left Jews with mixed feelings?
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2007, 10:22:44 PM »
"Statements from Jewish leaders about his death were duly respectful of a man who loved Israel, but were qualified also by his embrace of values that alienated most American Jews."


Is it because Falwell didn't embrace abortion, homosexuality and pornography? 

Offline RationalThought110

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Re: Falwell left Jews with mixed feelings?
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2007, 10:23:22 PM »
MLK didn't leave Jews with mixed feelings, however.


I'm not sure what you mean so please explain.

Offline Trumpeldor

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Re: Falwell left Jews with mixed feelings?
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2007, 10:25:12 PM »
MLK didn't leave Jews with mixed feelings, however.


I'm not sure what you mean so please explain.

In view of the fact that some Jews had mixed feelings about Falwell, I simply added that no Jews had 'mixed feelings' about the Communist, anti-white Jew-hater that was MLK.

The bottom line is that Jews all too often sympathize with the wrong people.

Offline TheCoon

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Re: Falwell left Jews with mixed feelings?
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2007, 10:28:01 PM »
The fact most of American Jewry didn't share Rev. Falwell's moral beliefs is a great, great tragedy. He was a better leader for the Jewish people than the scummy anti-religious "rabbi" in the deform and "conservative" movements.
The city isn't what it used to be. It all happened so fast. Everything went to crap. It's like... everyone's sense of morals just disappeared. Bad economy made things worse. Jobs started drying up, then the stores had to shut down. Then a black man was elected president. He was supposed to change things. He didn't. More and more people turned to crime and violence... The town becomes gripped with fear. Dark times, dark times... I am the hero this town needs. I am... The Coon!!!

Offline Trumpeldor

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Re: Falwell left Jews with mixed feelings?
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2007, 10:29:02 PM »
The fact most of American Jewry didn't share Rev. Falwell's moral beliefs is a great, great tragedy.

We can pass the blame onto the general population as well. Jews are only a very small percentage of that group. If the average American shared Falwell's beliefs, a lot more could have been accomplished.

Offline RationalThought110

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Re: Falwell left Jews with mixed feelings?
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2007, 10:47:07 PM »
MLK didn't leave Jews with mixed feelings, however.


I'm not sure what you mean so please explain.

In view of the fact that some Jews had mixed feelings about Falwell, I simply added that no Jews had 'mixed feelings' about the Communist, anti-white Jew-hater that was MLK.

The bottom line is that Jews all too often sympathize with the wrong people.


A couple months ago, I read a commentary by a rabbi about a Torah portion where he gave an analogy and was praising MLK. 

I wasn't aware of MLK's true intentions. 

Some people try to distance MLK from Sharpton by claiming that the latter deviates from the messages of the former.  They say that MLK wouldn't have wanted affirmative action.  But the truth is, MLK and Sharpton are the same? 

Offline RationalThought110

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Re: Falwell left Jews with mixed feelings?
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2007, 10:50:47 PM »
The fact most of American Jewry didn't share Rev. Falwell's moral beliefs is a great, great tragedy.

We can pass the blame onto the general population as well. Jews are only a very small percentage of that group. If the average American shared Falwell's beliefs, a lot more could have been accomplished.


Good points.  Instead, they all try to portray Falwell and Kahane as racists. 


In reality, the "open-borders" crowd, pornography industry and other corrupt groups are anarchists. 

Offline Trumpeldor

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Re: Falwell left Jews with mixed feelings?
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2007, 10:54:01 PM »
MLK didn't leave Jews with mixed feelings, however.


I'm not sure what you mean so please explain.

In view of the fact that some Jews had mixed feelings about Falwell, I simply added that no Jews had 'mixed feelings' about the Communist, anti-white Jew-hater that was MLK.

The bottom line is that Jews all too often sympathize with the wrong people.


A couple months ago, I read a commentary by a rabbi about a Torah portion where he gave an analogy and was praising MLK. 

I wasn't aware of MLK's true intentions. 

Some people try to distance MLK from Sharpton by claiming that the latter deviates from the messages of the former.  They say that MLK wouldn't have wanted affirmative action.  But the truth is, MLK and Sharpton are the same? 

I know I could potentially get in some hot water for this, but as a whole, the civil rights movement was a good thing. Denying blacks their basic civil rights, simply on the basis of the color of their skin, is racism.

My belief is that Jews, who were the quickest to jump to the defense of blacks, are to be criticized for not coming to the defense of their own people when it was so desperately needed (from the Holocaust, to Soviet Jewry, to the defense of Israel today).

Say what you want about MLK and Sharpton, but at least they seem to genuinely care about their own.

Offline RationalThought110

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Re: Falwell left Jews with mixed feelings?
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2007, 10:55:11 PM »
MLK didn't leave Jews with mixed feelings, however.


I'm not sure what you mean so please explain.

In view of the fact that some Jews had mixed feelings about Falwell, I simply added that no Jews had 'mixed feelings' about the Communist, anti-white Jew-hater that was MLK.

The bottom line is that Jews all too often sympathize with the wrong people.


In the public schools, everyone is indoctrinated with believes of how MLK endorsed great positions.  So even if students disagree with this, they are forced to spit back to their instructors that if one takes the position as a Communist, anti-white Jew-haters, the country will be better. 


How did you handle having these positions forced upon you?

Offline Trumpeldor

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Re: Falwell left Jews with mixed feelings?
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2007, 11:02:26 PM »
MLK didn't leave Jews with mixed feelings, however.


I'm not sure what you mean so please explain.

In view of the fact that some Jews had mixed feelings about Falwell, I simply added that no Jews had 'mixed feelings' about the Communist, anti-white Jew-hater that was MLK.

The bottom line is that Jews all too often sympathize with the wrong people.


In the public schools, everyone is indoctrinated with believes of how MLK endorsed great positions.  So even if students disagree with this, they are forced to spit back to their instructors that if one takes the position as a Communist, anti-white Jew-haters, the country will be better. 


How did you handle having these positions forced upon you?

Obviously I have a problem with how MLK is revered in classrooms at the expense of the founding fathers.

However, it is one thing to oppose King the individual and another to oppose what King stood for. King the individual was a very flawed being. Even his proponents admit that he plagiarized much of his work, that he cheated on his wife and that he associated with communists and black radicals. However, he did stand for some good things, such as racial equality and non-discrimination. He wanted people to be judged on the 'content of their character' and not by 'the color of their skin'.

Today, there is really no point in arguing with a teacher about the merits and flaws of MLK. It would be worthwhile to study the Federalist Papers, read the Bill of Rights or perhaps the Articles of Confederation, or the Constitution, or the Declaration of Independence. These are important elements of curricula that must not be lost due to political correctness. If we lose the study of these documents and their great authors, we have lost our nation.

It is not too late right now, but we must still act.

Personally, I learned a lot about the founding fathers. I took upper level history classes in high school and these subjects were discussed in sometimes great, excruciating detail. We actually had MLK day off! I don't mind seeing the posters of him around my high school. I just wish there were more posters of George Washington!

In higher education, I've taken classes with leftist professors, but I have not clashed with them.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2007, 11:06:03 PM by Trumpeldor »

Offline Daniel

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Re: Falwell left Jews with mixed feelings?
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2007, 11:05:02 PM »
MLK didn't leave Jews with mixed feelings, however.


I'm not sure what you mean so please explain.

In view of the fact that some Jews had mixed feelings about Falwell, I simply added that no Jews had 'mixed feelings' about the Communist, anti-white Jew-hater that was MLK.

The bottom line is that Jews all too often sympathize with the wrong people.


In the public schools, everyone is indoctrinated with believes of how MLK endorsed great positions.  So even if students disagree with this, they are forced to spit back to their instructors that if one takes the position as a Communist, anti-white Jew-haters, the country will be better. 


How did you handle having these positions forced upon you?

I don't know. I never learned that he was a communist, anti-white Jew-hater. I've only seen that on here. I learned that he wanted all people to live together equally. But hey, perhaps that was just liberal propaganda that was being shoved down my throat.

But I think it's important to remember his famous letter to his anti-zionist friend where MLK stated to him that, "when you speak out against zionists, you are talking about the Jews."

Offline Daniel

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Re: Falwell left Jews with mixed feelings?
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2007, 11:07:01 PM »
"Statements from Jewish leaders about his death were duly respectful of a man who loved Israel, but were qualified also by his embrace of values that alienated most American Jews."


Is it because Falwell didn't embrace abortion, homosexuality and pornography? 


No, it's because Falwell stated that G-d almighty doesn't hear the prayer of a Jew, he attacked Tinky Winky and Spongebob Squarepants, and he blamed America for 9/11.

Offline Trumpeldor

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Re: Falwell left Jews with mixed feelings?
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2007, 11:07:29 PM »
MLK didn't leave Jews with mixed feelings, however.


I'm not sure what you mean so please explain.

In view of the fact that some Jews had mixed feelings about Falwell, I simply added that no Jews had 'mixed feelings' about the Communist, anti-white Jew-hater that was MLK.

The bottom line is that Jews all too often sympathize with the wrong people.


In the public schools, everyone is indoctrinated with believes of how MLK endorsed great positions.  So even if students disagree with this, they are forced to spit back to their instructors that if one takes the position as a Communist, anti-white Jew-haters, the country will be better. 


How did you handle having these positions forced upon you?

I don't know. I never learned that he was a communist, anti-white Jew-hater. I've only seen that on here. I learned that he wanted all people to live together equally. But hey, perhaps that was just liberal propaganda that was being shoved down my throat.

But I think it's important to remember his famous letter to his anti-zionist friend where MLK stated to him that, "when you speak out against zionists, you are talking about the Jews."

You can find scholarly criticism of MLK if you really want to. Hell, even JFK and Bobby Kennedy were not happy with his contemporaries. JTF is not making any of this up.

Offline Trumpeldor

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Re: Falwell left Jews with mixed feelings?
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2007, 11:10:11 PM »
"Statements from Jewish leaders about his death were duly respectful of a man who loved Israel, but were qualified also by his embrace of values that alienated most American Jews."


Is it because Falwell didn't embrace abortion, homosexuality and pornography? 


No, it's because Falwell stated that G-d almighty doesn't hear the prayer of a Jew, he attacked Tinky Winky and Spongebob Squarepants, and he blamed America for 9/11.

You're quote-mining/doctoring and doing a bad job of it, if I may add.

During his life, Falwell was outspoken in support of Jews, Israel, and morality. He was a true, bible-believing Christian.

What more do people want out of him?

Offline RationalThought110

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Re: Falwell left Jews with mixed feelings?
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2007, 11:19:03 PM »
"Statements from Jewish leaders about his death were duly respectful of a man who loved Israel, but were qualified also by his embrace of values that alienated most American Jews."


Is it because Falwell didn't embrace abortion, homosexuality and pornography? 


No, it's because Falwell stated that G-d almighty doesn't hear the prayer of a Jew, he attacked Tinky Winky and Spongebob Squarepants, and he blamed America for 9/11.

You're quote-mining/doctoring and doing a bad job of it, if I may add.

During his life, Falwell was outspoken in support of Jews, Israel, and morality. He was a true, bible-believing Christian.

What more do people want out of him?


Is this in response to me or Daniel?   






Offline Trumpeldor

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Re: Falwell left Jews with mixed feelings?
« Reply #18 on: May 18, 2007, 11:27:30 PM »
"Statements from Jewish leaders about his death were duly respectful of a man who loved Israel, but were qualified also by his embrace of values that alienated most American Jews."


Is it because Falwell didn't embrace abortion, homosexuality and pornography? 


No, it's because Falwell stated that G-d almighty doesn't hear the prayer of a Jew, he attacked Tinky Winky and Spongebob Squarepants, and he blamed America for 9/11.

You're quote-mining/doctoring and doing a bad job of it, if I may add.

During his life, Falwell was outspoken in support of Jews, Israel, and morality. He was a true, bible-believing Christian.

What more do people want out of him?


Is this in response to me or Daniel?   







Daniel.