New poll : what should Judea Samaria and Gaza become ?

[Yaakov Mendel]

The three proposed options are the following :

1) "Two-state" solution : I am in favour of the so-called “two-state solution”. The Arabs often referred to as “Palestinians” have the right to create their own state of Palestine in the West Bank and Gaza.

2) Annexation form 1 : I support the annexation of Judea Samaria and Gaza into Israel. Arabs should be encouraged to leave but I agree that a minority of Arabs can stay as long as they accept Jewish sovereignty in a Jewish state and abandon any claim to a “Palestinian” statehood in Eretz Israel. Arabs who were never involved in acts of violence and who agree to leave should be eligible for compensation.

3) Annexation form 2 : I support the annexation of Judea Samaria and Gaza into Israel and demand the immediate forcible eviction of all Arabs without any form of compensation. Any Arab who refuses to leave should be killed.

As far as I am concerned, I choose option 2. You do not have to reveal your personal choice to the other JTFers.
Thanks for your participation.

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

3

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

sorry I was confused.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I think I prefer a combination of 2 and 3.

Annexation 1 is good in theory, but really it will turn into annexation 2 by any realistic expectation, and Rabbi Kahane frequently spoke about this.   He would offer the "olive branch" of compensation and subjugation to Israel as a theoretical fairness, but he never expected the vast majority of Arabs to accept such a thing and knew most would need to be forced out.

[Rubystars]

I like annexation form 2 because if you leave Arabs there, they will commit terror to "right the wrong" that was supposedly done to their people, no matter how much they lie about recognizing Israeli sovereignty. Then if you punish them for it the world will wail and moan about how horrible Israel is (well, they'll do that under any circumstance anyway).

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

I like annexation form 2 because if you leave Arabs there, they will commit terror to "right the wrong" that was supposedly done to their people, no matter how much they lie about recognizing Israeli sovereignty. Then if you punish them for it the world will wail and moan about how horrible Israel is (well, they'll do that under any circumstance anyway).

U mean form 3?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I like annexation form 2 because if you leave Arabs there, they will commit terror to "right the wrong" that was supposedly done to their people, no matter how much they lie about recognizing Israeli sovereignty. Then if you punish them for it the world will wail and moan about how horrible Israel is (well, they'll do that under any circumstance anyway).

U mean form 3?

When I referred to "Annexation 1" that = choice 2, and "annexation 2" = choice 3.

[Rubystars]

I like annexation form 2 because if you leave Arabs there, they will commit terror to "right the wrong" that was supposedly done to their people, no matter how much they lie about recognizing Israeli sovereignty. Then if you punish them for it the world will wail and moan about how horrible Israel is (well, they'll do that under any circumstance anyway).

U mean form 3?

When I referred to "Annexation 1" that = choice 2, and "annexation 2" = choice 3.

Right

[Yaakov Mendel]

Kahane-Was-Right BT, Rubystars,

You have very good points. When I voted for option 2, I was aware of the limitations of that choice. But if option 3 is the only realistic option, then this has far reaching consequences. Option 3, in my opinion, could only be implemented in a state of war. Very broadly, I often see future events unfolding as follows (the way I anticipate it, not the way I want it to be) :

In the near future, Israel will cave in to the pressure from the outside world and from the left and the phony right within Israel, and a new Arab state will be created in Judea Samaria and Gaza. Hamas and Fatah will pretend to find an arrangement to found a form of government, that Hamas will secretly consider as temporary and purely tactical. They will demand that their state be Judenfrei and will therefore call for the eviction of the Jewish settlers in Judea Samaria. But heroic settlers will resist these evictions. As a result, violent confrontations will erupt and there will be, G-d forbid, casualties. Hamas will then overthrow Fatah at the head of the Arab state, the way they did in Gaza. They will turn savagely against the settlers, thus forcing Israel to declare war on the Hamas-controlled new state. Then, G-d willing, Israel will at last do what she should have done in the past during previous wars. This time, there will be no restraint, there will be no insane retreat, the Arabs will be expelled and a Jewish state of Israel will be declared on Eretz Israel.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Also, given what I said before, I do also hear Rubystars' logic and see that as a legitimate approach "from the get-go" as well on that basis.

[Dr. Dan]

Ideally option 3, however option 2 is the most appropriate halakhically.

[david1967]

Israel already did option 1, when they pulled out of Gaza a few years ago.  The result: Gaza is controlled by Hamas, and southwestern Israel, especially Sderot, was bombarded by Qassem rockets for several years.  Meanwhile, the PLO/Fatah under Abbas, who is an incompetent puppet, controls Judea and Samaria.  Despite this, the so-called "Palestinians" and the world, still say the Palestinians need a state.  What?  They won't consider them to have a state until they an army that is capable of attacking and destroying Israel. 

[Ari Ben-Canaan]

Option 2, and if need be [even immediately] option 3.  And no media presence [under penalty of life incarceration], no internet, no cellphone service, no personal media recording devices allowed to remain in Arab hands.

If Taqqiya is used, or if Arabs simply do not behave as peaceful residents they get the immediate boot w/o trial or compensation.

[White Israelite]

1, majority of Arabs are going to need to be removed but the ones who are loyal such as the Bedouins, circassians, druze i'm not completely opposed to. Any recognition of a Palestinian state is recognizing a colonist state created by the British and those people should be removed. The ones who recognize Israel and only a Israeli state would be ok but I think the rest should be encouraged to leave.

This could be done in multiple ways granted Israel is NOT required to service Arab areas with water, electricity, internet or social services.

Compensation, they better have proof of living on that land prior to the 1880's or their claim is invalid, many of these "Palestinians" are recent immigrants, lets not forget about that.

Then again, I don't see too many Arab countries lining up to compensate Jews for land that was stolen from the Sephardic/Mizrahi.

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

1, majority of Arabs are going to need to be removed but the ones who are loyal such as the Bedouins, circassians, druze i'm not completely opposed to.

The Bedouines are certainely not loyal. They're the biggest and most dangerous criminals in Israel they use terror against Jews in the Negev, commit terrorist so-called "car incidents" and stone Jewish cars and buses, attack and rape Jewish women, rob and and murder Jews who don't want to have their mafia protection, spy for Hamas and Egypt, and when they "serve" in the army it's for economical favors and attempts to . Also, during the service, they harass Jewish girls, steal weapons in HUGE amounts and give out military secrets for our enemies. After all, they are Muslims and they are Arabs.

About the Druze, they're loyal to nobody but themeselves. They serve in the army only to harass Jewish girls and for financial favors. They're loyal to the superpower in the region, whether it would be Israel, Iran, Turkey or Egypt. The Druze in Lebanon, Syria, Golan Heights (who openly support the Arabs) and Jordan already revealed their real faces (they're the best soldiers of Hezbollah because they know Israelis better than the rest of the population, and are the most fanatic anti-Semites in these countries after the Muslims). Only yesterday Druze lynched a Jewish police officer in a Druze village when the officer tried to arrest someone. 

I have a Druze Noahide friend who told me that the Druze are more dangerous than the Arabs. The Arabs are stupid enough to show who their loyalty belongs to, but the Druze are smarter and hate Jews with a vicious Nazi hatred. The Druze have their own reign of terror in the Golan Heights and in the Galilee and Haifa.

About the Circassians, they're the same as the Arabs, again, from personal experience (just like the Arabs, they're a jealous retarded stupid people who hate Jews, after all, they are Muslims mostly and the ones who aren't still have the Muslim/Russian mentality).

Any recognition of a Palestinian state is recognizing a colonist state created by the British and er those people should be removed. The ones who recognize Israel and only a Israeli state would be ok but I think the rest should be encouraged to leave.

They'll be here for a decdae and then their children will start demanding "rights" they do not deserve upon Jewish land. How can one have so much contempt for the Arabs? the Arabs do NOT seek for peace with an entity that according to them, exists on THEIR land.

There's a famous story about the 40 years old revenge of an Arab. He can lick your a$-$ for 40 years and only then, when he will see you don't watch your back, he will stab you and eliminate you. Arabs are the greatest liars and hypocrites of all, and keeping them in our home is dangerous.

This could be done in multiple ways granted Israel is NOT required to service Arab areas with water, electricity, internet or social services.

Compensation, they better have proof of living on that land prior to the 1880's or their claim is invalid, many of these "Palestinians" are recent immigrants, lets not forget about that.

Money will not buy ANY Arab and nothing but force should be used against those who showed no mercy or compensation to our Jewish brothers and sisters from Arab and Muslim countries.