Author Topic: Poor, sad, dancing Israeli soldiers  (Read 42100 times)

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Offline wonga66

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Re: Poor, sad, dancing Israeli soldiers
« Reply #125 on: July 10, 2010, 08:20:18 PM »
Davidy's '110 proofs' certainly provide food for thought http://www.britam.org/ListofProofs.html

The Ten Lost Tribes went somewhere, and it is predicted that they will return.

Although it is hard to swallow that yer average uncircumcised, beer-swilling, uncouth, foul-mouthed, rednecked, antisemitic Scottish, English, Aussie, Kiwi and Yank, could be of TLT origin, if the TLTs exist anywhere at all on the physical plane, I'd prefer them to be of the white rather than pigmented nations!

Offline Lewinsky Stinks, Dr. Brennan Rocks

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Re: Poor, sad, dancing Israeli soldiers
« Reply #126 on: July 10, 2010, 08:24:20 PM »
Golani Zionist,

The world doesn't ridicule the IDF and Israel is not in danger of attack because a couple of soldiers decided to dance around for thirty seconds to pass the time. The IDF is a joke because everybody knows that it (and Israelis in general) would bend over backwards to avoid harming a hair on an Arab's head.

Offline MassuhDGoodName

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Re: Poor, sad, dancing Israeli soldiers
« Reply #127 on: July 11, 2010, 12:08:57 AM »
It should surprise  no one to learn that the 10 Tribes were murdered off, sold into slavery, died of every disease known and unknown, and were forcibly assimilated and forcibly converted to the prevailing beliefs of their captor nations.  That being a high probability, there are some cases known which seem to have more to their claims than mere anecdote.  The Pashtun tribesmen of Afghanistan claim to be direct descendants, call themselves Israel, and wear blue and white prayer shawls and fringes.  Most of them look just like other Jews, and it is easily believable that they made their way to Southwest Asia and were eventually forced to convert to Islam.  There is a community of Jews living off the coast of Libya claiming to be direct descendant Cohanim who spend all their time making Temple items in preparation for their Return.  Other remnant groups undoubtedly remain scattered around the globe.  That being said, it is difficult to accept that Angles, Saxons, and Celts who worshipped trees, had women priestesses and spoke a language totally unrelated to any Semitic language, are the "long lost Jews".  It just doesn't add up.  There's not a scintilla of evidence linking them to the Middle East.  Same goes for the Teutons, Franks, Schots, Slavs....there is just nothing that link them to Jewish roots.  Their religions and cultures are forms despising all things Jewish.  The Irish are fond of sitting around inventing stories about how they are the Lost Tribes, and how they have Leprechauns, and how.....this and that....when they're not getting s-itface drunk and beating each other up.  Germany as well as Italy weren't even nations until the nineteenth century.  Both were nothing but disunited duchies and loose confederations -- and there were Jews living there rooted and settled since Roman times!  It only makes sense that Jews rooted in a land for over a thousand years would know if their adapted hosts were in fact their kin!  The Italian people today today have no relation whatsoever to the original Romans.  The Romans were descendants of the Etruscans, a distinct ethnicity which founded Rome, and who no longer exist.  Early in English history King John expelled all the Jews from Britain.  That Edict is still Law and still on the books.  The act of fellow Jewish Tribesmen?  I don't think so.  Danes and Norsemen the Lost Tribes?  Worshipping Odin and Loki and death and war?  Doesn't sound like the Lost Tribes to me.  Virtually all the peoples of Europe today are the resettled remnants of the migratory barbarian invasions which followed the Fall of the Roman Empire.  Goths, Visigoths, Vandals, Ostrogoths, Jutes, Vikings, Franks, Teutons, Normans, ....these are the peoples of Western Europe today with white skin.  Russians are a mixture of Viking migrants and native Slavs.  They have no relationship whatsoever with the ancient Jews or any other Semitic peoples.  Even the ancient Egyptians were displaced by Berbers and Arabs and other invading peoples.  If the Lost Tribes of Israel are prophecised to make a metaphysical and supernatural Return to unite with their remaining brethren in Eretz Yisrael, then I am all for it and I actually believe it.  However, scholars from every country in the world have been searching worldwide for evidence "proving" the existence of the Lost 10 Tribes, and ALL of them have come up with little but scant evidence; most of it anecdotal folk legends and the like.  Furthermore, most of the investigative research into the 10 Lost Tribes done by Western Christians is based on terribly flawed translations and misinterpretations of the Jewish Scriptures; enabling them to "force fit" their findings to make them "prove" what was untrue from the start.  There is a wide chasm between METAPHYSICS and HISTORY.  Metaphysics is entirely unprovable and must be accepted and believed based on doctrines and scriptures which themselves bear little in the way of documentable proof.  History, on the other hand, is that which can be concluded by the study and analysis of documented and verifiable records compiled by historians, governments, writers from the period, cross references and analysis of other fields of study such as language patterns, cultural changes, etc. . 

Offline Yaacov Ben Yehuda

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Re: Poor, sad, dancing Israeli soldiers
« Reply #128 on: July 11, 2010, 01:14:40 AM »
Golani Zionist,

The world doesn't ridicule the IDF and Israel is not in danger of attack because a couple of soldiers decided to dance around for thirty seconds to pass the time. The IDF is a joke because everybody knows that it (and Israelis in general) would bend over backwards to avoid harming a hair on an Arab's head.

Well it wasnt a couple of soldiers, it was a whole squad (kita).  Look I agree with you as well but lets face it, they looked really fruity dancing around insync like that.  Its obvious that they rehearsed and planned it.  Holding hands and skipping looked GAY!

Offline MassuhDGoodName

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Re: Poor, sad, dancing Israeli soldiers
« Reply #129 on: July 11, 2010, 03:49:29 AM »
Re:  Teachings of Herbert W. Armstrong and his Worldwide Church of G-d :

British-Israelism

Armstrong was a proponent of British Israelism, (also known as 'Anglo-Israelism') which is the doctrine that people of Western European descent, especially the British Empire (Ephraim) and the United States (Manasseh), are descended from the 'Ten Lost Tribes' of Israel.[2] (The United States and Britain in Prophecy). Armstrong believed that this doctrine provided a 'key' to understanding biblical prophecy, and that he was specially called by God to proclaim these prophecies to the 'lost tribes' of Israel before the coming of the 'end-times'. -- source:  Wikipedia

Armstrong  taught that the United States, the British Commonwealth and several countries situated in northwestern Europe were delineated in the end-time prophecies of Genesis 49. He claimed the chapter described the national characteristics of contemporary descendants of Jacob -- later renamed Israel by God -- thus revealing where the Lost Tribes of Israel are currently situated. In his early broadcasts Armstrong also explained that God was building a family.
-- source:  Wikipedia

A major component of Armstrong's theology was that America and Britain and people of certain other European countries including France, Norway, Belgium, Sweden, and others are primarily composed of the descendants of ancient Israel.
-- source:  Wikipedia

Brit-Am variant

Brit-Am, sometimes confused with British Israelism, is an organization centered in Jerusalem, and composed of Jews and non-Jews. Brit-Am, like British Israel, identifies the Lost Ten Tribes with peoples of West European descent, but does so from a Jewish perspective quoting both Biblical and Rabbinical sources. The evidence that Brit-Am relies upon is Biblical in the light of Rabbinical Commentary but is supplemented by secular theories that posit the Lost Tribes / Scythian / Cimmerian connection, which they then believe to have become various Western European nations.[38] An example of Brit-Am scholarship may be seen from its treatment of Obadiah 1:20[39] where the original Hebrew as understood by Rabbinical Commentators such as Rashi and Abarbanel is referring to the Lost Ten Tribes in France and England.[40] Brit-Am also believes that "Other Israelite Tribes gave rise to elements within Finland, Switzerland, Sweden, Norway, Ireland, Wales, France, Holland, and Belgium" and that "The Tribe of Dan is to be found amongst part of the Danish, Irish, and Welsh." Brit-Am also believes that the Khazars were descended from the Ten Tribes and quotes Jewish and non-Jewish sources that were contemporaneous with them.[41] -- source:  Wikipedia
Other variants

Other organizations teach other variants of the theory, such as that the Scythians / Cimmerians consisted in whole or in part the Lost Ten Tribes. One such theory posits that the lost Israelites can be defined by the Y-DNA haplogroup R, which consists of much of Europe and Russia,[42] which is in contrast to British Israelism and Brit-Am, which believe the Israelites became only Western Europeans. It should be noted that the genetic findings postulated by this and other theories are typically inconsistent with the findings of generally accepted research in archeology, anthropology and population genetics. -- source:  Wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ten_Lost_Tribes

Offline דוד בן זאב אריה

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Re: Poor, sad, dancing Israeli soldiers
« Reply #130 on: July 11, 2010, 03:53:50 AM »
I don't get the point of this thread
David Ben Ze'ev Aryeh


Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Poor, sad, dancing Israeli soldiers
« Reply #131 on: July 11, 2010, 04:01:55 AM »
Read Davidy's Britam articles: not all European nations are of TLT origins.  

What makes him an authority?   He is simply someone speculating thousands of years later.

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Talmudic Aggadta is not Midrash. The next thing is that you'll say the Halachos in the Talmud 'aren't literal' and 'they don't really mean it that way'.  

Is it possible you are this much of an ignoramus or are you purposely trying to waste my time?

Talmudic "Aggadta" as you call it IS midrash.    It is called Midrash Aggada !    In contradistinction to halachic statements of hazal which are referred to as "midrash Halacha."

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What is "Midrashic" about the Gemara that Nero became a ger?  

It's a story, and there's a meaning behind it, however I'm not an expert on every single Talmudic passage because I have not learned them all, but I'm sure with enough depth of study one can arrive at the message being presented there.   To take the stories of hazal literally makes a mockery of Chazal and the Rambam writes this explicitly.   You ever bother to read Rambam's intro to Perek Helek?   Certainly when other evidence contradicts the historicity, there is reason to believe Chazal spoke to convey a message, and often they do speak in such parables.   As a general rule , they are almost never "recording history"   - That's simply not their function nor was it their interest to do so.   Contrast the Talmudic literature with Tanakh and you will see quite plainly that Chazal did not have interest in recording history.    The Tanakh on the other hand did.

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Do you have trouble literally accepting the Gemara on the same page that Titus was punished by a gnat that flew in to his nostril and destroyed his brain?  

There is no "trouble" involved.   One simply uses his brain and understands that chazal were not recording history, were not teaching science, but were doing something else entirely.   From that starting premise, one then appreciates and delves into the depth of the things they said, their deep wisdom, and how rishonim and aharonim have understood their messages over the ages.    


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Do you believe that the giving of the Torah on Mt Sinai by G-d to the Am Yisrael in 2448AM was an actual event that occurred in actual historical reality?  

Of course, and did I ever say otherwise?  NO.  You are conflating the issues because you are an ignoramus and have no understanding of the functioning of the Oral Law.   You should really spend time in a yeshiva and learn about these things (most yeshivot are unsuitable for doing so.   I am NOT referring to learning 10 blatt of baba kama over a year and a half, I AM referring to learning about the big picture from real chachamim who know what they are talking about and can show you in the sources the basis for the things they are saying).   But you certainly should learn about these things before you start throwing accusations at people.   Your method of attack destroyed the second Temple as the Netziv explains.   You think everyone who has a different approach from you is a heretic.... The only problem is, that my approach is shared by any non-ignoramus.

I recommend this site as a starting point:
www.hashkafacircle.com

And the "Reshimu Journal" they publish is also very good.  I know they don't teach these things in the average yeshiva/kollel.   

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Are you a Reformist or Conservative? Or extreme 'leftwing' Moderdox?

No.  Quit labeling people.  This is silly.    You just don't like the fact that learned people don't make chazal into a fairytale.   They also don't make the Chumash into a fairytale.    Get used to it.

I am not associated with any of those so-called "movements" you refer to.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Poor, sad, dancing Israeli soldiers
« Reply #132 on: July 11, 2010, 04:06:24 AM »
Whilst I don't agree with all his conclusions, this is not the 'British-Israelitism' of the Victorians, & Davidy's stuff is far from being discredited, he being an Orthodox Kahanist Jew,

A person can be an "Orthodox Kahanist Jew" and still believe in theories which are not plausible, and possibly promote wacky incorrect ideas based on misunderstanding.   Case in point in this very thread.

Joining the banner of Orthodox Kahanist Jew does not make one correct in all his beliefs or infallible. 

Offline Yaakov Mendel

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Re: Poor, sad, dancing Israeli soldiers
« Reply #133 on: July 11, 2010, 04:41:18 AM »
In Islam, everyone is part of the jihad--man, woman, infant. These animals send their toddlers out into battle hoping that they will be martyrs. They put their infants in harm's way so that they can be inadvertently hit by an Israeli bomb or bullet and they can be martyrs for the cause as well.

If what you are saying is that there is hypocrisy on the part of Arab terrorist leaders to blame Israel for deaths of Arab children during Israeli operations of self-defense, then I agree with that. They obviously cannot on the one hand promote martyrdom of their children and on the other hand pretend to feel sorry for the death of Arab children during confrontations with the Israeli army.

These "innocent children" dance around in the streets and throw candy around when Jews get blown up or maimed or when American/British soldiers are dragged through the streets of Iraq and burned alive. As far as I am concerned they deserve the same fate as Adolf Hitler himself.

Don't forget that Arab spawn hate us just as much as their parents do. As soon as they know what a Jew is, they think "kill, kill, kill". Ten Israeli soldiers were murdered in Jenin in 2002 by a child suicide bomber.

I don't feel sorry for any of them, infants on up.

It is true that it would naïve to view all Arab children as entirely innocent.
However, you cannot blame a 5-year old child for what has been imposed upon him to do by adults. He is just too young to be fully aware of what he is doing and thus to be held responsible for his actions. Those responsible are the sick perverted adults who use children to achieve their murderous goals.
More importantly, it is a fact that there have been a number of Arab children who were killed during confrontations between Tsahal and terrorists who were innocent inasmuch as they never took part in any action designed to harm Jews and they were simply too young to be blamed for anything. But even when the bullet is an Israeli one, those who are responsible for these deaths are the Arab terrorists for two main reasons : (i) if the Arab terrorists did not try to kill Jews all the time, no Israeli operation of self-defense would be necessary; (ii) if the Arab terrorists did not use dirty methods of fighting within densely populated areas, there would be no collateral damage.


Offline Yaakov Mendel

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Re: Poor, sad, dancing Israeli soldiers
« Reply #134 on: July 11, 2010, 04:51:11 AM »
This Hellenized concept has absolutely no place in Judaism

May I kindly suggest that you take a closer look at what Judaism truly is...


Huh?

Then what did the Maccabees fight against?  They fought against Hellenist Jews and Hellenist Syrian-greek occupiers!   I'm not following what you are saying here.

There is a misunderstanding here. Of course I know who the Maccabees fought against. What I was saying is that if you take the liberty to kill someone who is innocent, then you commit murder, and the prohibition of murder is certainly not a hellenized concept that has no place in judaism, it is a basic commandment of the Torah !

Offline Yaakov Mendel

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Re: Poor, sad, dancing Israeli soldiers
« Reply #135 on: July 11, 2010, 04:54:42 AM »
I found the following comment by Rav Chaim Navon which I found relevant to this thread, or rather to what this thread has become !

"Torah law requires us, when laying siege to an enemy city, to leave one side open and unguarded, in order to allow the enemy to run away.  The Ramban explains this mitzva in the following manner:
 
We are commanded that when we lay siege to a city to leave one side without a siege, so that if [the inhabitants] wish to run away they should have an escape route.  For in that way we will learn to conduct ourselves with compassion even towards our enemy during wartime.  There is also another advantage, in that we allow them an escape route, and so they will not come out in force against us.  (Ramban, Addenda to Sefer ha-Mitzvot, positive precept, no. 5)[8]
 
   While the Ramban also sees in this mitzva wise military strategy, not to press one's enemy when his back is against the wall, he primarily views it as a moral commandment, teaching us to show compassion even to our enemy in a time of war.  Here we are dealing not only with civilians, but even with combatants who have decided to run away.[9] "

The whole link is : http://www.vbm-torah.org/archive/halak66/13halak.htm

Offline MassuhDGoodName

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Re: Poor, sad, dancing Israeli soldiers
« Reply #136 on: July 11, 2010, 05:18:21 AM »
Re:  "I don't get the point of this thread "

Now you're confusing the issues!     :::D

Offline wonga66

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Re: Poor, sad, dancing Israeli soldiers
« Reply #137 on: July 11, 2010, 07:03:28 AM »
Davidy seems to have already written an interesting direct rebuttal of Massuh on his site http://britam.org/blog.html entitled "The Jews Need Joseph: A Debate Amongst Jewish Patriots!" , showing that Massuh's history is wrong and in it stating that "MassuhDGoodName seems to be one of those people who do not want to believe, who have prior prejudices, and will always be prepared to deny what truths we may present them."
« Last Edit: July 11, 2010, 07:19:48 AM by wonga66 »

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: Poor, sad, dancing Israeli soldiers
« Reply #138 on: July 11, 2010, 07:46:40 AM »
Davidy seems to have already written an interesting direct rebuttal of Massuh on his site http://britam.org/blog.html entitled "The Jews Need Joseph: A Debate Amongst Jewish Patriots!" , showing that Massuh's history is wrong and in it stating that "MassuhDGoodName seems to be one of those people who do not want to believe, who have prior prejudices, and will always be prepared to deny what truths we may present them."

Wow!  Maybe you are Davidy!

Offline MassuhDGoodName

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Re: Poor, sad, dancing Israeli soldiers
« Reply #139 on: July 11, 2010, 09:26:42 AM »
"MassuhDGoodName seems to be one of those people who do not want to believe, who have prior prejudices, and will always be prepared to deny what truths we may present them."

Yeah!  That's me!     :P

I don't listen to schwartzes - I bullwhip them!     :laugh:

But as for "...will always be prepared to deny what truths we may present them."

Someone apparently refers to themselves in the 3rd Person Plural as a monarch addresses their subjects!     :o


Offline MassuhDGoodName

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Re: Poor, sad, dancing Israeli soldiers
« Reply #140 on: July 11, 2010, 09:47:28 AM »
Re:  ""MassuhDGoodName seems to be one of those people who do not want to believe,"

Most definitely!     ;D

Massuh believes in Ha'Shem -- all others must pay cash!     :P

How 'bout if Massuh just decides to "believe" everything he hears and everything he reads?     :o

That work for you and the other Rhodes Scholars?

Did you know that in fact, the white man was invented in a test tube millions of years ago by the renowned Black genius and scientist Yakub!  It was a laboratory experiment went awry!  That's why the white man is now the devil!  Just ask all the Nation of Islam shvoogs that believe everything they hear and everything they read -- It's all TRUE because The Reverend Elijah Muhammad SAYS SO!  And the fact that they SO DESPERATELY WANT TO BELIEVE IT! -- well...that's the PROOF!

[On the other hand -- Massuh is willing to strongly "reconsider" his position for 15% of all gross receipts taken in for sales of Davidy's tapes and books.  For an additional 35% of the gross, Massuh will become a "believer"! ... Over 50% - Zealot!]
 :::D