Author Topic: Ask Kahanist Liberal  (Read 12600 times)

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Offline Meerkat

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Ask Kahanist Liberal
« on: August 19, 2010, 09:47:45 PM »
you know the drill!  :)

Offline HiWarp

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Re: Ask Kahanist Liberal
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2010, 06:26:05 AM »
Okay, I'll start. What exactly makes you a liberal? What liberal policies do you believe in that you think are beneficial to this, or any other country?
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny;
when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”
---Thomas Jefferson

Offline Rubystars

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Re: Ask Kahanist Liberal
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2010, 09:21:58 AM »
Do you believe that the would would be better off if borders were dissolved and different types of people mixed together, free to travel anywhere they like?

Offline Meerkat

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Re: Ask Kahanist Liberal
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2010, 01:49:37 PM »
Okay, I'll start. What exactly makes you a liberal? What liberal policies do you believe in that you think are beneficial to this, or any other country?

i believe in lots of personal freedoms (legalizing certain drugs for example) , as well as some social programs (not too may)

Do you believe that the would would be better off if borders were dissolved and different types of people mixed together, free to travel anywhere they like?
of course we need borders, i think we need much stronger borders, but we should make it easier for people to immigrate legally (with the exception of some Muslim countries).

Offline IsraeliGovtAreKapos

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Re: Ask Kahanist Liberal
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2010, 07:50:21 PM »
What are your thoughts on Communism?

Offline Meerkat

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Re: Ask Kahanist Liberal
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2010, 09:53:06 PM »
What are your thoughts on Communism?

im an ex-communist, though i always hated the traditional communist dictators (stalin, mao). now, i realize its a stupid idea altogether because its incompatible with human nature, while capitalism, is really compatible with it.

Offline Rubystars

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Re: Ask Kahanist Liberal
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2010, 10:24:55 PM »
In what ways are you a liberal?

Offline Meerkat

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Re: Ask Kahanist Liberal
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2010, 10:37:29 PM »
In what ways are you a liberal?

i believe in lots of personal freedoms (legalizing certain drugs for example) , as well as some social programs (not too may)

Offline HiWarp

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Re: Ask Kahanist Liberal
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2010, 10:39:49 AM »
In what ways are you a liberal?

i believe in lots of personal freedoms (legalizing certain drugs for example) , as well as some social programs (not too may)

Can you be more specific. It's difficult for me to shoot down your liberal arguments without a more detailed description.  ;D
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny;
when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”
---Thomas Jefferson

Offline Rubystars

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Re: Ask Kahanist Liberal
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2010, 07:33:32 PM »
How do you feel about globalism, do you strive to be a good "world citizen?", or is your loyalty not to the world but to your own country and people?

Offline Meerkat

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Re: Ask Kahanist Liberal
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2010, 07:54:10 PM »
How do you feel about globalism, do you strive to be a good "world citizen?", or is your loyalty not to the world but to your own country and people?

im israeli and jewish before ANYTHING else, westerner 2nd, "world citizen" 3rd

Offline Rubystars

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Re: Ask Kahanist Liberal
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2010, 06:28:16 AM »
How do you feel about globalism, do you strive to be a good "world citizen?", or is your loyalty not to the world but to your own country and people?

im israeli and jewish before ANYTHING else, westerner 2nd, "world citizen" 3rd

Good answer  :)

Offline Meerkat

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Re: Ask Kahanist Liberal
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2010, 11:53:13 PM »
In what ways are you a liberal?

i believe in lots of personal freedoms (legalizing certain drugs for example) , as well as some social programs (not too may)

Can you be more specific. It's difficult for me to shoot down your liberal arguments without a more detailed description.  ;D

hard to specify to much

well, i want the govnt to not ban things that dont harm anyone who isnt trying to be affected by it. basically stuff like legalization of drugs, allowing anyone to say anything in the media (as long as it doesn't specifically incite violence), this includes the right to blasphamy, as well as the right to say the N-word. i believe in allowing marrige between any 2 consenting adults. i believe law-abiding citizens should be allowed to arm themselves  with any weapon they can carry on there own. i believe that if administrative detention is necessary, it needs a time limit. basically personal freedom stuff like that

as far as social programs: i believe we need public education, i think that israel especially should invest into public education and make its schools be on par with the world's best private schools, this should encourage aliyah from people who think Israel's actions are immoral, since they would feel an obligation to there kids. i think we need to help people find jobs who otherwise can't find any, i think we should have a public health insurance system like israel has now. i also think that welfare should only be available to old people and people with disabilities. i dont want too much gov't involvement, but some is necessary.

Offline muman613

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Re: Ask Kahanist Liberal
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2010, 12:56:42 AM »
Did you ever learn how to capitalize sentences? Or do they skip over that when they teach kids English? I think it is a sign of good education to punctuate and to use proper English. It seems that many of todays young people claim to be too lazy to hit the Shift key. I don't find it hard at all because they taught us how to type in high-school.

Also judging from your previous posts answers it seems you would support the Obama administrations health-care system. I am very much against it. It is not sustainable to have systems which require the working class to pay for the health costs of the non-working people. I am a working man and pay very high taxes and I don't want to be taxed more in order to pay for people to sit around doing nothing. My tax money is being used to support non-American citizens who are receiving aide from American taxpayers. I once was a Democrat and called myself liberal. Liberalism doesn't work because the more that you give, the more that they take. Everyone must work together. There must be charity and justice, and they must work together.

I am all for charity and I give a good deal to various organizations and even have housed a man who would be homeless if not for my support. But I don't want the government to take my money and spend it on programs which I do not support. The current administration is allowing all kinds of liberal things to be taught at schools today. I am against homosexuality being taught as a normal life option at schools. I am against the giving out of contraceptives to elementary school girls. I am against the indoctrination of the kids with liberal ideas which revise history rather than tell the facts. Political correctness has become an anchor around the neck of the American people. We cannot even say that Islam is the root of the terrorism in the world.

« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 01:02:59 AM by muman613 »
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Meerkat

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Re: Ask Kahanist Liberal
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2010, 01:42:57 AM »
Did you ever learn how to capitalize sentences? Or do they skip over that when they teach kids English? I think it is a sign of good education to punctuate and to use proper English. It seems that many of todays young people claim to be too lazy to hit the Shift key. I don't find it hard at all because they taught us how to type in high-school.

yes, i am too lazy to capitalize my sentences in an informal post. 

Quote
Also judging from your previous posts answers it seems you would support the Obama administrations health-care system. I am very much against it. It is not sustainable to have systems which require the working class to pay for the health costs of the non-working people. I am a working man and pay very high taxes and I don't want to be taxed more in order to pay for people to sit around doing nothing. My tax money is being used to support non-American citizens who are receiving aide from American taxpayers. I once was a Democrat and called myself liberal. Liberalism doesn't work because the more that you give, the more that they take. Everyone must work together. There must be charity and justice, and they must work together.


im very much against obamacare, reason being is that it dosnt have anything anyone likes in it. not even a public option is included, but it does have a mandate (which would have not been tax supported, il go into greater detail if you wish). i support having an israel-style health insurance system, a system which even with all the arabs on welfare manages to be one of the best in the world, we actually don't want higher taxes to fund this since taxes retard the economy, having lower taxes will actually bring in more tax revenue since more things are being bought.

Quote

I am all for charity and I give a good deal to various organizations and even have housed a man who would be homeless if not for my support. But I don't want the government to take my money and spend it on programs which I do not support. The current administration is allowing all kinds of liberal things to be taught at schools today. I am against homosexuality being taught as a normal life option at schools. I am against the giving out of contraceptives to elementary school girls. I am against the indoctrination of the kids with liberal ideas which revise history rather than tell the facts. Political correctness has become an anchor around the neck of the American people. We cannot even say that Islam is the root of the terrorism in the world.

it is very good that you do charitable things, thats very commendable. i don't like too much govt intervention either, but i think some things should be rights.

i think schools should be objective, not neutral, objective. by that i mean, just give the kids the valid facts. during sex-ed (which i do support, again, i will go into greater detail) they should say that no scientists found anything bad about homosexuality, but they should say that some religions oppose it. i am for giving out contraceptives in school, since kids are going to have sex anyway, might as well have them protect themselves. i don't think schools should say islam is the root of all terror in the world, but they should point out that 95% of terrorist activity in recent history has been islamic and also inform them about the objectives of islamic groups and let the kids decide weather its the root of all terror (which is how i got to the conclusion that it is). 

of course you should be allowed to say islam is the root of all terror in the streets or on the internet, but you should expect criticism.

Offline HiWarp

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Re: Ask Kahanist Liberal
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2010, 04:47:58 AM »
In what ways are you a liberal?

i believe in lots of personal freedoms (legalizing certain drugs for example) , as well as some social programs (not too may)

Can you be more specific. It's difficult for me to shoot down your liberal arguments without a more detailed description.  ;D

hard to specify to much

well, i want the govnt to not ban things that dont harm anyone who isnt trying to be affected by it. basically stuff like legalization of drugs, allowing anyone to say anything in the media (as long as it doesn't specifically incite violence), this includes the right to blasphamy, as well as the right to say the N-word. i believe in allowing marrige between any 2 consenting adults. i believe law-abiding citizens should be allowed to arm themselves  with any weapon they can carry on there own. i believe that if administrative detention is necessary, it needs a time limit. basically personal freedom stuff like that

as far as social programs: i believe we need public education, i think that israel especially should invest into public education and make its schools be on par with the world's best private schools, this should encourage aliyah from people who think Israel's actions are immoral, since they would feel an obligation to there kids. i think we need to help people find jobs who otherwise can't find any, i think we should have a public health insurance system like israel has now. i also think that welfare should only be available to old people and people with disabilities. i dont want too much gov't involvement, but some is necessary.

Based on your answers, I would probably consider you a more classical liberal than what is considered a liberal today. In fact, most leftists today would probably consider you right of center.

As far as government programs are concerned, I would have no problem with any government program under one condition; if it were optional where people that did not want to participate could opt out and there were other similar private sector services available. The moment a government service becomes mandatory, regardless of whether an individual even needs the service, it is destined to fail.
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny;
when the government fears the people, there is liberty.”
---Thomas Jefferson

Offline Rubystars

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Re: Ask Kahanist Liberal
« Reply #16 on: August 25, 2010, 07:45:25 AM »
Spitting in the face of G-d by supporting the government to openly condone homosexuality will bring a lot of punishment down from G-d to individuals who are pro gay marriage and to nations which promote this sickness. Why in the world would you think that this would do anything but destroy a nation? Do you want little children exposed to the sickness of being raised by men that kiss each other in a sensual way, etc.?

Offline Meerkat

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Re: Ask Kahanist Liberal
« Reply #17 on: August 25, 2010, 11:43:29 AM »
Spitting in the face of G-d by supporting the government to openly condone homosexuality will bring a lot of punishment down from G-d to individuals who are pro gay marriage and to nations which promote this sickness. Why in the world would you think that this would do anything but destroy a nation? Do you want little children exposed to the sickness of being raised by men that kiss each other in a sensual way, etc.?

i don't think its the government's place to do something solely based on religion. study's show that having gay parents has no direct effect on a child, but there are obvious indirect consequences, such as the fact that the kid will have to take sh*t from kids in school over having 2 dads, so gay adoptions should wait until people become more tolerant of gays.

Offline muman613

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Re: Ask Kahanist Liberal
« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2010, 11:38:24 PM »
Spitting in the face of G-d by supporting the government to openly condone homosexuality will bring a lot of punishment down from G-d to individuals who are pro gay marriage and to nations which promote this sickness. Why in the world would you think that this would do anything but destroy a nation? Do you want little children exposed to the sickness of being raised by men that kiss each other in a sensual way, etc.?

i don't think its the government's place to do something solely based on religion. study's show that having gay parents has no direct effect on a child, but there are obvious indirect consequences, such as the fact that the kid will have to take sh*t from kids in school over having 2 dads, so gay adoptions should wait until people become more tolerant of gays.

This is defective thinking. Homosexuality is a sin, and it should not be an alternative lifestyle. Your position gives them support because you claim that there are no negative consequences. You do not know the consequences. I do not think, as you seem to, that the problem is that people are not tolerant of that sickness. I believe that allowing homosexual relationships will destroy the basic morality of the nation. Historically and biblically this has always been the case.

You will not find that many here will support a gay lifestyle. I am sorry to admit it KahaneLiberal, but I don't think your opinions will be very acceptable to many JTF members. How in the heck did you ever find yourself attracted to Rabbi Kahane, Z'tl... Are you aware that he was a very upright and righteous Orthodox Jewish rabbi? He would not consider homosexuality a lifestyle choice, much less something the state should recognize.

The very concept of a liberal kahanist makes the hairs on the back of my neck stand on end... It almost is like a paradox... There is nothing about Rabbi Kahanes ideology which could even in the slightest be considered liberal... Unless you consider evicting the Arab occupiers in Israel from the Jewish land to be a liberal position....

You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Lisa

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Re: Ask Kahanist Liberal
« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2010, 11:54:09 PM »
Liberal Kahanist, what drew you to JTF?  Have you read any of Rabbi Kahane's books, or seen videos of his speeches?  What aspects of Kahanism do you agree with?  What parts of it do you disagree with?  I'm very curious to know. 

Thanks.

Offline Meerkat

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Re: Ask Kahanist Liberal
« Reply #20 on: August 26, 2010, 12:30:44 AM »
Liberal Kahanist, what drew you to JTF?  Have you read any of Rabbi Kahane's books, or seen videos of his speeches?  What aspects of Kahanism do you agree with?  What parts of it do you disagree with?  I'm very curious to know. 

Thanks.
i mostly came here to debate, haven't read  kahanes books, but i have seen his speeches on youtube. the main parts of kahanism i agree with is that israel must keep all of the land it has and any future land it conquers by wars other countries provoke, i agree that the arabs must be kept from voting israel out of existence, and we should make sure that israel stays under jewish rule forever. i agree that we should try to get all the jews to live in israel.

i disagree with having israel turn into a religious fundamentalist state.

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Re: Ask Kahanist Liberal
« Reply #21 on: August 26, 2010, 02:03:44 PM »
...study's show that having gay parents has no direct effect on a child...

What studies would that be? This is fag-propaganda by unknown, self-acclaimed wannabe psychologers who think they are scientists.

Offline Rubystars

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Re: Ask Kahanist Liberal
« Reply #22 on: August 27, 2010, 07:44:08 AM »
i disagree with having israel turn into a religious fundamentalist state.

Do you agree or disagree with Kahane that Judaism and a Jewish state is not compatible with democracy in Israel? How would you promote it being a Jewish state and yet be against anything done on the basis of religion?

Offline IsraeliGovtAreKapos

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Re: Ask Kahanist Liberal
« Reply #23 on: August 27, 2010, 07:58:32 AM »
Why be Jewish?

Offline Meerkat

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Re: Ask Kahanist Liberal
« Reply #24 on: September 11, 2010, 02:48:11 PM »
i disagree with having israel turn into a religious fundamentalist state.

Do you agree or disagree with Kahane that Judaism and a Jewish state is not compatible with democracy in Israel? How would you promote it being a Jewish state and yet be against anything done on the basis of religion?

i do agree that having a jewish state and a democracy in a western sense is unsustainable. i never said that we cant do anything on the basis of religion, i said we should not do anything SOLELY on the basis of religion. i.e. if some religion helps preserve the national identity, we should do some religion, but draw a common sense line on what parts of religion we do incorporate, and what parts we let people voluntarily incorporate.