retired military experts to confirm ufo appearances

[MasterWolf1]

There could be... I mean this will explain these creatures.

[MasterWolf1]

A little Alien on a mothership named Jose.. Flew over the border into California to pick lettuce, he got paid in pesos, brought drugs and 35 of his family members with him.. Ohhhhhhhhh.. You mean them green looking E.T. ones? Well I would take the green looking E.T. ones over the Joses

I wonder if they can pick lettuce though.

Can't be any worst then the illegals picking lettuce and chances are no one will get sick

[Rubystars]

The CIA basically were following up on experiments done by the Nazis at Dachau! This is all a matter of fact, there is nothing controversial about this. After Olson jumped or was pushed out of the window a lot of the hidden stuff came out.

[Muck DeFuslims]

Jose and Miguel cross the border into America and decide to become professional beggars.

Everyday, they each go out with a sign asking for money.

Everyday, Miguel comes back with a few dollars.

Everyday, Jose comes back with a suitcase full of 10 dollar bills, and in no time he purchases a beautiful home, car, and a boat.

Miguel is mystified by his friend's amazing success. He asks what his secret is.

Jose replies, "I have a very good sign".

Miguel says, "I have a good sign too".

Jose asks, "What does your sign say ?".

Miguel responds, "I have a wife and 4 children that I can't feed, please help".

Jose says, "Not bad".

Miguel asks, "What does your sign say ?".

Jose answers, "I need 10 dollars to go back to Mexico".   

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

A lot of the experiments the Nazis did didn't make a lot of sense either, but they were done out of utter depravity and a total lack of limits as to ethical guidelines. I think if a scientist had the funding, enough secrecy surrounding the work, and could come up with a rationale for doing the research, some would do this kind of thing just for the fact that it can be done.

The comparison to the nazis y''s is not valid.  They didn't have ethics committees and legal restraints or conditional funding.  Their program was anything goes and their evil so-called scientists carried out whatever they wanted.

That is not the system in place in America, therefore pointing to the nazis and saying we should worry about our current scientists, does not hold water.  Sorry.

KWRBT,

You seem to trust man way too much. 

False.   It's simply logic.   The comparison of the nazi's to American science is comparing apples to oranges.

If a nazi scientist did cruel experiments on Jews, he would be rewarded and be advanced to high standing in the nazi party.   If an American researcher or scientist does a cruel experiment on any human that violates the legal-ethical standards he is bound to BY LAW, he will lose his job, lose his career, lose funding for his lab, desecrate the institution he works for, be publicly ridiculed and attacked, and possibly or likely end up in jail.

Big difference.  Apples to oranges.   No trust involved.

The system is not etched in stone

Yes it is.  There are legal restrictions.  Violators are punished for breaking the law.  The US has a good reputation that those who break the law are charged with crimes.   This is not the wild west or the African jungle.

and reative morality always is a slippery slope. I agree with Rubystars that although currently it seems that things are being measured according to moral laws, there is no such guarantee that it will be that way in the future. It is always best to move forward cautiously lest we make a very large error. 

You're not making a coherent point.   Even if you suspect (a baseless suspicion, I might add) that in the future ethical concerns will not restrain scientific research in any way like they currently do, the important point and relevant point is that they CURRENTLY DO, so it makes no sense to punish scientists who follow these guidelines and uphold the ethical standards that have been established by ethics committees and legal structure.

Don't you think that the builders of the Tower of Babel had the noblest intentions? I know that they did, and their efforts ended up being against the wishes of Hashem. The rest is history.   

How is that relevant?

You really compare science to the tower of babel? 

So if you have a medical issue chas veshalom, you're going to take a moral stand and refuse to take the modern, most advanced treatment from the tower of babelites as a protest against their science that developed the treatments?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Now there's been a conflating of issues.  (anyone need a translation for that, so I'm not accused of stealing that language from a college professor) 



Anyway, back to the subject at hand, you guys are now speaking about secret experiments by the CIA... But how did we jump away from the subject of science that goes on in research institutions with funding, transparent data and methodology, ethical guidelines, legal restraints, etc - to a practically autonomous group that can discard the law at will?     Rubystars, you mentioned the achievements of a research group at Advanced Cell Technology for crying out loud.    They have published their findings and methods in scientific journals any person can look up on pubmed.   Once again comparing apples to oranges.   Why should THESE scientists (ie those at transparent research institutions, hospitals, etc) be punished because there might be a secretive govt-associated group that DISCARDS the legal-ethical standards that THESE scientists are bound to abide by and which the system enforces?   Why should I be wary of the people whom the system actually affects?   I shouldn't.   If you want to worry about the CIA, maybe I'm with you there, but that's precisely because they are above the law and above the restraints/unaffected by the system itself!

[Rubystars]

KWRBT, I think there's been a misunderstanding, and I think it's my fault for not explaining well enough what I meant.

My concern is that this kind of technology can be used to create things that are completely WRONG to create, such as animal/human hybrids (it was even being implied that a human brain might be possible to be grown inside an animal's body, which would raise huge morality issues).

Also the idea was raised that it may be possible to grow human sperm and eggs from transgenic mice, etc. That is just sickening to think of. I can see a day when a fertility clinic would be offering "donated eggs" that came from transgenic mice. 

Another thing to think about with this kind of experiment is this. Right now if a modern day Mengele wants a human subject to do his or her dirty work on, then they have to somehow procure a human, whether by kidnapping, etc. but if you can have a laboratory full of MICE and produce human embyros from them, not only for stem cells but also possibly to grow experimental human subjects if implanted in a woman (perhaps against her will) then there could be a large amount of babies produced that would have no parents and no public birth record. There are so many ways this could go wrong that I don't even know where to begin.

I wasn't saying that particular lab would do it, because a legit lab like that wouldn't. However it's possible that some lab somewhere would use what was learned by the legitimate experiments and take it and create monsters basically, if that was somehow seen as useful for defense or for some special project the government wanted to do.

This kind of idea goes back a long way. Stalin wanted to create animal/human hybrid soldiers but there wasn't the technology to do it back then. I don't know if there is now or not, but if human beings were murdered by the CIA in "Terminal experiments" after hours of "interrogation techniques", then God only knows what they or some other agency has been up to. I really doubt there are any ethical constraints in China for example.