Israel's Chief Scientist dismissed for doubting evolution & global warming

[Rubystars]

I used to debate this topic on a daily basis in a chat room dedicated to it. Some of the so-called pious religious people were the absolute worst. One told me he'd laugh when I was burning in hell. Another one said he was going to put a curse on the evolutionists in the room and started chanting this weird stuff in another language (maybe one he made up!), and then there were people that would say stuff like "I'll pray for you", but it would be in a nasty type of tone, as if to say "You're beyond help, heathen!"

[christians4jews]

evolution is a urban myth.

Both creation and evoltion are religions but a creator is a far more logical faith than non observable an retestable theory of evolution.

I don't reject that G-d created the universe. I just think that evolution could have been a tool used to create different forms of life.

well god is an idiot if evolution is true, he makes errors, plus evolution completely goes against the biblical version of creation, reptiles are created in a differet order etc.

You literally cannot believe in evolution and the bible. Now i think you can interpret the earth as millions or even billions years old. That i can accept, even though non of us truely know how long ago it was created.

But what i do know is the religion of evolution is quite possible the worst theory ever, but this poor scientist has been sacked because he doesnt believe in this fallacy.

Explain to me love, hate, envy, emotions, explain to me dna. Dna is incredible, dna organises things better than all the greatest minds can produce.

Not one of you were there "in the beggining", until we have a time machine im fed up with arrogant atheist twlling me and other people how "stupid we are" for not accepting evolution.


Well if its so easy i want those that believe in it to explain it to me. i want someone here who believes in evolton to do a brief timeline from how the universe was created, to how the first living cell was formed, to how we have the beutiful and incredible organzed universe.


Good luck...

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

I know frum haredi Jews who believe the lies of netanyahu and even though they don't believe peace agreement is possible they still think that Jews have to give over "westbank" to the arabs and can't/shouldn't keep ruling over them.

Some make a distinction between already existing Jewish settlements vs. what is seen as not-Jewish-inhabited or simply "arab"

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

evolution is a urban myth.

Both creation and evoltion are religions but a creator is a far more logical faith than non observable an retestable theory of evolution.

I don't reject that G-d created the universe. I just think that evolution could have been a tool used to create different forms of life.

well G-d is an idiot if evolution is true, he makes errors,

  wtf?

What errors would those be?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

plus evolution completely goes against the biblical version of creation, reptiles are created in a differet order etc. 

 

You literally cannot believe in evolution and the bible.

  That's not true according to many very learned people.

Now i think you can interpret the earth as millions or even billions years old. That i can accept, even though non of us truely know how long ago it was created. 

But doesn't that also "completely goes against the biblical version of creation"

Why can you interpret this issue but other issues are off limits or not open to interpretation?

Explain to me love, hate, envy, emotions, explain to me dna. Dna is incredible, dna organises things better than all the greatest minds can produce. 

So what?   G-d created many incredible things.  Even if He created them gradually and developed them with environmental cues and selection pressures.    If DNA was more simplistic, you would accept evolution?

[Rubystars]

well G-d is an idiot if evolution is true, he makes errors, plus evolution completely goes against the biblical version of creation, reptiles are created in a differet order etc.

Christians or Jews who accept evolution generally see the order and other things in Genesis/Bereshit  as having some kind of symbolic meaning. I'm not really a Bible scholar so I am not going to claim to understand it very well. However I do see a lot of clear and plain symbols there, even if I don't completely understand all of their meanings.

You literally cannot believe in evolution and the bible. Now i think you can interpret the earth as millions or even billions years old. That i can accept, even though non of us truely know how long ago it was created.

A lot of creationists would tell you that it's impossible to believe in an old earth and the Bible at the same time. They would call you an evolutionist! Some, like Wonga, seem to think the Bible requires that you reject a heliocentric solar system even.

Our universe is very old, possibly 13 billion years old. Our earth is much younger, around 4 1/2 billion years old.

These dates aren't arrived at randomly, they are based on observation of evidence and the scientific method.

But what i do know is the religion of evolution is quite possible the worst theory ever, but this poor scientist has been sacked because he doesnt believe in this fallacy.

"Nothing in Biology Makes Sense Except in the Light of Evolution"
-Theodosius Dobzhansky

Explain to me love, hate, envy, emotions,

We're not just a body you know, we're also a spirit. However God did give us brains that function in such a way that we can feel emotions through those brains.

explain to me dna. Dna is incredible, dna organises things better than all the greatest minds can produce.

DNA codes for proteins, it's not really a blueprint. I wish I had The Greatest Show on Earth, but I only read it once, it was borrowed from the library. That book has a very good chapter explaining this. I am not generally fond of Dawkins but he does know how to translate complex scientific concepts to something that's easier to understand.

Not one of you were there "in the beggining", until we have a time machine im fed up with arrogant atheist twlling me and other people how "stupid we are" for not accepting evolution.

What do you mean? We can dig down and find fossils of creatures that were "there" and those fossils, as well as all kinds of other evidence from the past, such as comparative DNA, etc. can tell us a lot about the history of life, and the history of this planet.

That's like saying that you can never find out who is guilty of a murder that didn't have eyewitnesses. What if the prosecutor in a case showed DNA evidence matching the defendant, a murder weapon that was registered as owned by the defendant and had the defendant's finger prints on it, and a security video tape showing the defendant breaking into the home of the murder victim? it seems like an open and shut case. Then the defense lawyer gets up, and says "You can't prove it, you weren't there! If you weren't there, then you don't know who murdered the victim!"

[christians4jews]

plus evolution completely goes against the biblical version of creation, reptiles are created in a differet order etc. 

 

You literally cannot believe in evolution and the bible.

  That's not true according to many very learned people.

Now i think you can interpret the earth as millions or even billions years old. That i can accept, even though non of us truely know how long ago it was created. 

But doesn't that also "completely goes against the biblical version of creation"

Why can you interpret this issue but other issues are off limits or not open to interpretation?

Explain to me love, hate, envy, emotions, explain to me dna. Dna is incredible, dna organises things better than all the greatest minds can produce. 

So what?   G-d created many incredible things.  Even if He created them gradually and developed them with environmental cues and selection pressures.    If DNA was more simplistic, you would accept evolution?

humans brought death into the world, not god. Evolution relies on suvival of the fittest and "freak mutations"(even though no mutations have been show to produce a positive development.


OK i want you to go through the evolution timechart, then the biblical time chart, and show me if reptiles, earth, sun fish etc were all perfectly in order with each other. Good luck with that one.

And so your answer is "oh we cant explain emotuons etc so we will assume they just evolved over millions of years."

Do you not see, evolution is a religion, a faith, and a cruel one at that. God woul not have such a cruel evil Way of making thing. God made the bomberdeer beatle perfectly and first time. God made the dna perfectly first time.

As i say both are faiths but god doesnt make errors, so evolution is wrong biblically and scientically.

[muman613]

I agree that there are some issues which don't jibe with the faith of Judaism (of course in my _humble opinion). Although Judaism is not as dogmatic as the other faiths which use Jewish scriptures there are some very important things learned from the Genesis story which are universal truths of humanity. It is not a science book nor a history book and often times there are metaphors and allusions, but the basic premise is that man is the reason that Hashem created the entire creation. And that the plants did not sprout until man came and prayed for rain is not explainable by the science. There are many questions about what the science is learning, but it should not all be accepted as absolute fact until we attempt to understand it in light of humanity.

I have said before that I have my doubts about the evolutionary theory and remain unconvinced.

[MassuhDGoodName]

The dogs bark, but the caravan moves on.

[christians4jews]

Christians or Jews who accept evolution generally see the order and other things in Genesis/Bereshit  as having some kind of symbolic meaning. I'm not really a Bible scholar so I am not going to claim to understand it very well. However I do see a lot of clear and plain symbols there, even if I don't completely understand all of their meanings.

yom can mean day, period of time, so that i can accept that the universe can range from 6000 to billions of years old. But genesis creation account completely differs from the evolution timeline of events. Just compare. FIsh , reptiles etc were created in completely different order to evolution. Either evolution is right, or the bible is right, they cannot coincide.

A lot of creationists would tell you that it's impossible to believe in an old earth and the Bible at the same time. They would call you an evolutionist! Some, like Wonga, seem to think the Bible requires that you reject a heliocentric solar system even.

Our universe is very old, possibly 13 billion years old. Our earth is much younger, around 4 1/2 billion years old.

These dates aren't arrived at randomly, they are based on observation of evidence and the scientific method.

 

That's like saying that you can never find out who is guilty of a murder that didn't have eyewitnesses. What if the prosecutor in a case showed DNA evidence matching the defendant, a murder weapon that was registered as owned by the defendant and had the defendant's finger prints on it, and a security video tape showing the defendant breaking into the home of the murder victim? it seems like an open and shut case. Then the defense lawyer gets up, and says "You can't prove it, you weren't there! If you weren't there, then you don't know who murdered the victim!"

But evolution doesnt have the dna evidence, it never been "caught on camera", the missing links are not missing links, they are simply bones found in the ground.

There is not one shred of evidence for evolution ruby. I see the brilliant design of a bomberdeer beatle, or wood pecker, or vanilla bee etc etc, and i see how fantastic god made it and designed it. Why would god want there to be "million" years of failings to finally get it right??Not logical.

[Rubystars]

Well if its so easy i want those that believe in it to explain it to me. i want someone here who believes in evolton to do a brief timeline from how the universe was created, to how the first living cell was formed, to how we have the beutiful and incredible organzed universe.

Universe:

Approximately 13-15 billion years ago, There was a quantum fluctuation, or two big membranes in multi-dimensional space collided. We're not sure exactly what happened. The universe was created.

Here's a timeline:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Bang#Timeline_of_the_Big_Bang

Basically the universe started out as a very small point and expanded rapidly. Along the way, very basic particles formed into stars and galaxies, "cooking" elements to create more complex elements. Most other elements besides hydrogen can only be formed inside stars. Eventually these stars would die out and go nova, dispersing the new elements. Yes you are made of stardust, and so is everything around you.

Eventually after generations of stars, our solar system began to form from a dust disc. Our sun was at the center, and planets formed from the rotating disc. There were a lot of mini-planets at first, and these collided until larger planets were formed.

Eventually we had the solar system we're familiar with.

The earth originally had no moon, until a planet-sized object (Theia)collided with the earth, destroying both the earth and the object, combining them together and when everything settled, there was both an earth and a moon.  

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_impact_hypothesis

This early stage of the earth was called the Hadean era. There was no life then, the earth was still inhospitable and if you were to go back and see it in some kind of time machine, it probably wouldn't look much like the earth we know at all. The moon was a lot closer back then (it's been gradually moving away)

[muman613]

According to Torah interpretation:

All that existed before the creation was null and void, and Hashem hovered over the water.

Beresheit 1:2
Now the earth was astonishingly empty, and darkness was on the face of the deep, and the spirit of God was hovering over the face of the water.

Then Hashem said "Let there be light!", and it was.

Hashem separated light and dark, and this was called Day One.

The second day consisted of separating the waters, the waters above and the waters below. He did not think this separation was good.

The third day separated the waters below from the dry land, this he called tov (good). Hashem brought forth vegetation, all seed bearing fruits and herbs, this too was on the third day.

Then the fourth day Hashem brings forth the great luminaries in the sky. The sky consists of the sun and moon {which according to Jewish midrash were created the same size, the moon was shrunk to its smaller state because of its jealousy}. This creation he called tov (good).

Beresheit 1:14
And God said, "Let there be luminaries in the expanse of the heavens, to separate between the day and between the night, and they shall be for signs and for appointed seasons and for days and years.
And they shall be for luminaries in the expanse of the heavens to shed light upon the earth." And it was so.
And God made the two great luminaries: the great luminary to rule the day and the lesser luminary to rule the night, and the stars.

This all was created on the fourth day.

The fifth day brings the creation of the insects and swarming creatures. He created the fish in the sea and the birds of the sky on this day.

Beresheit 1:21-22
And God said, "Let the waters swarm a swarming of living creatures, and let fowl fly over the earth, across the expanse of the heavens."
And God created the great sea monsters, and every living creature that crawls, with which the waters swarmed, according to their kind, and every winged fowl, according to its kind, and God saw that it was good.
And God blessed them, saying, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters of the seas, and let the fowl multiply upon the earth."

Now comes the sixth day, upon which animals and humans are created...

Beresheit 1:24-27
And God said, "Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kind, cattle and creeping things and the beasts of the earth according to their kind," and it was so.
And God made the beasts of the earth according to their kind and the cattle according to their kind, and all the creeping things of the ground according to their kind, and God saw that it was good.
And God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness, and they shall rule over the fish of the sea and over the fowl of the heaven and over the animals and over all the earth and over all the creeping things that creep upon the earth."
And God created man in His image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.

And we all know what Hashem created on the seventh day, his greatest creation of all, complete rest, Shabbat Shabbaton. This was created on the seventh day...

In the next chapter is discussed how Hashem withheld the plant life from growing, because it was created such that it needed to be worked by man {either physically or through prayer}...

Beresheit 2:5-9
Now no tree of the field was yet on the earth, neither did any herb of the field yet grow, because the Lord God had not brought rain upon the earth, and there was no man to work the soil.
And a mist ascended from the earth and watered the entire surface of the ground.
And the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and He breathed into his nostrils the soul of life, and man became a living soul.
And the Lord God planted a garden in Eden from the east, and He placed there the man whom He had formed.
And the Lord God caused to sprout from the ground every tree pleasant to see and good to eat, and the Tree of Life in the midst of the garden, and the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil.

So if any of this makes sense according to the evolutionary theory then I am not aware of it...

[wonga66]

Notice that Relativity does not say that the universe has no center. It says that we cannot determine where that center is.

Thus it is purely a matter of personal/philosophical choice, and in no way can you say that for the Earth to be at the center, is incorrect, as the savants admit here:

http://www.geocentrism.com/possible.htm

"People need to be aware that there is a range of models that could explain the observations,” Ellis argues. “For instance, I can construct you a spherically symmetrical universe with Earth at its center, and you cannot disprove it based on observations.” Ellis has published a paper on this. “You can only exclude it on philosophical grounds. In my view there is absolutely nothing wrong in that. What I want to bring into the open is the fact that we are using philosophical criteria in choosing our models. A lot of cosmology tries to hide that.” (Cosmologist George Ellis)

And our "philosophy" is the Tenach: The Earth is established; it cannot be moved" (Tehillim 93).

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

plus evolution completely goes against the biblical version of creation, reptiles are created in a differet order etc. 

 

You literally cannot believe in evolution and the bible.

  That's not true according to many very learned people.

Now i think you can interpret the earth as millions or even billions years old. That i can accept, even though non of us truely know how long ago it was created. 

But doesn't that also "completely goes against the biblical version of creation"

Why can you interpret this issue but other issues are off limits or not open to interpretation?

Explain to me love, hate, envy, emotions, explain to me dna. Dna is incredible, dna organises things better than all the greatest minds can produce. 

So what?   G-d created many incredible things.  Even if He created them gradually and developed them with environmental cues and selection pressures.    If DNA was more simplistic, you would accept evolution?

humans brought death into the world, not G-d. Evolution relies on suvival of the fittest and "freak mutations"(even though no mutations have been show to produce a positive development.

Can you provide some kind of scientific basis to suggest that organisms (ie, plant life, animals, etc) did not die until man existed?     I'll answer for you - No, you can't.  You made that up based on your theological beliefs about the Garden of Eden.    I'm not sure exactly what this point had to do with anything I said, but it's important to highlight this -  You are not arguing against evolution on scientific grounds, you are arguing against it because you perceive it to be against your religious beliefs.  But what if there are many people (or even a few... or even 1!) who don't see it as a contradiction to religious beliefs?   

OK i want you to go through the evolution timechart, then the biblical time chart, and show me if reptiles, earth, sun fish etc were all perfectly in order with each other. Good luck with that one.

Like I've already said in this thread, I don't believe that the Bereshith account is giving a "biblical time chart" of evolution or natural processes, since the Bible is not a science textbook and is not supposed to be read as one.  I read maaseh bereshith allegorically because these processes obviously happened over long periods of time - You even admit that by citing the length of "yom" as being quite longer than an actual day!

To consider the Bereshith account as a timeline of natural history and a science lesson is IMO a mistake in literalism.   Even if that mistake is only known now in light of newly uncovered facts of the past decades and past century.   It is still a mistake.  And all the moreso we should recognize it as one now.

And so your answer is "oh we cant explain emotuons etc so we will assume they just evolved over millions of years."

Did I say that?    I don't even know what you're referring to.

Do you not see, evolution is a religion, a faith, and a cruel one at that. 

  Cruel?   It's cruel that species evolve?    Isn't it simply the same thing as God creating it instantaneously except it's stretched out over time?   Doesn't it say man is created from the earth in the Bible?   So is that cruel that earth was transformed into man?   Is that cruel to the earth?   I fail to understand your argument.

G-d woul not have such a cruel evil Way of making thing.

  LOL, I don't see how evolution of species is a "cruel" way of making them.  How do you put a value judgment such as that on the process?   Is there some basis to this conviction?

G-d made the bomberdeer beatle perfectly and first time. G-d made the dna perfectly first time.

As i say both are faiths but G-d doesnt make errors, so evolution is wrong biblically and scientically.

The implication of evolution is not that the original species was a mistake.   I think that is a problem of your own misinterpretation.

[Rubystars]

Early in the earth's history, self-replicators formed, through a process called abiogensis, eventually leading to the first life. There's a lot of speculation as to how this might have happened. I don't pretend to understand it all.

Around 3.8 billion years ago the Archean era saw the first life,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archean#Archean_life

They were single celled organisms.

The single celled organisms formed into colonies, like mats of bacteria or other cells. Like these "stromatolites":



Eukaryotic cells (the kind of cells plants and animals and fungi are made of) evolved in the Proterozoic era.

Before plants and animals went their separate ways, the common ancestor might have looked something like this:



The first real animals and plants formed in the Cambrian era.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

According to Torah interpretation:

All that existed before the creation was null and void, and Hashem hovered over the water.

Evolution or any scientific explanation or fact does not come in until after that point.   Science cannot deal with null-and-void as a reality - it's a scientific absurdity.   That reality - null and void, ie nothingness - precedes creation and precedes any natural scientific understanding of the universe or any timeline trying to describe the beginnings of the universe.   It is for this reason that to posit God's creating of the earth is not a challenge no matter what details we uncover.   God can't be proved or disproved.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Notice that Relativity does not say that the universe has no center. It says that we cannot determine where that center is.

Thus it is purely a matter of personal/philosophical choice, and in no way can you say that for the Earth to be at the center, is incorrect, as the savants admit here:

http://www.geocentrism.com/possible.htm

"People need to be aware that there is a range of models that could explain the observations,” Ellis argues. “For instance, I can construct you a spherically symmetrical universe with Earth at its center, and you cannot disprove it based on observations.” Ellis has published a paper on this. “You can only exclude it on philosophical grounds. In my view there is absolutely nothing wrong in that. What I want to bring into the open is the fact that we are using philosophical criteria in choosing our models. A lot of cosmology tries to hide that.” (Cosmologist George Ellis)

And our "philosophy" is the Tenach: The Earth is established; it cannot be moved" (Tehillim 93).

LOL!  This is the most dishonest thing I've ever seen.   You are using some quote from George Ellis to basically try to "justify" your denial of reality.   You mistranslate and misunderstand Tehillim, and misinterpret it.  The earth does move.    And we know it moves.  It rotates on its axis and it revolves around the sun.

Ellis's quote does not give you an excuse to pretend any sheker is true.

[Rubystars]

The colonies of cells became specialized, forming simple plants and animals, many different body plans developed in the Cambrian. Some of the first animals would have been sponges and jellyfish. Later there would have been more complex animals.

Before the ancestors of higher animals developed a distinct head, they would have looked something like this lancelet:

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

My rabbi once explained to me that when someone denies reality, they are desecrating God's name.   What they are really doing is displaying a disbelief in Torah and disguising it as a defense of their creed.   Because they are actually transforming the religion into an irrational "dogma" or "protocol" that must be forced upon all mankind by iron fist and by Cosmic Bully they've turned God into, no matter how unrelated that dogma is to truth, and - importantly - having no relevance to the truth at all in their mind.  

If the religion was true, and they really believe it's true, it wouldn't have to be "enforced" taliban style (or karaite style, if you wish), with the interpretation and engagement with facts cut off from the process.     He said this specifically about a certain well-known (in rabbinic circles at least) kanoi (extremist) who wrote up a pamphlet calling Rav Yakov Kamenetsky ZT"L an heretic!   This author wrote his accusation since Rav Yakov Kamenetsky wrote in his own writings that Rambam was incorrect in some of his astronomical writings - namely that the moon is not physical but spiritual matter -  and that this was proven by the moon-landing that Rambam erred in some of those scientific writings.    Rav Kamenetsky was not a heretic (chas ve shalom!) and in reality it is this disgraceful writing and accusation against him that reflected apikorsus according to my rabbi.   The person would rather deny the evidence of the moon landing and its relevance to the discussion, and to proclaim that "our dogma" has no relevance to known/uncovered fact, and he would rather be "religious" about adherence to the Rambam and what Rambam said, than to actually engage with reality and use rational thought to adhere to Torah.   True religion requires rational thought processes for the sincere engaging with the Creator and His creation.

[Rubystars]

Life developed further and there were arthropods, molluscs, early fish, worms, etc. The fish developed jaws from gill arches. Some of the fish developed into sharks and rays, some into ray-finned fishes like bass, trout, goldfish, etc. and some developed into lobe finned fishes like the coelocanth. One group of lobe-fins developed into amphibians. Some of those amphibians developed into reptiles. Reptiles split into several different groups, like turtles, dinosaurs, mammals, etc. Some dinosaurs developed into birds.

Some mammals, which started out as small and shrew-like, developed into primates, some primates developed into ape-like creatures, some of those developed into hominids.

I've focused mostly on the path that led to humans, but that's only a very, very small part of the whole evolution picture. There is an amazing diversity of life on earth. Think of it as a branching tree, or a fractal.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

Ruby, you have a lot more patience than I do.  I give you a lot of credit.   There are experts who can elaborate on these things better than I can (and I assume better than you can too, since you said you didn't know that much about it) - IMO it's really laziness that motivates people "demanding explanation " of evolution or certain aspects of it as if we're having an official debate about it - why don't they look up the relevant sources and read about it?   Or why haven't they done so up to this point?    Is that different from forcing rubystars to look it up and then copy and paste information for them?

[Rubystars]

Some of it I'm pulling from memory, some of it I'm looking up to make sure I don't re-tell it wrong. Obviously, especially in the last post, I've simplified things a lot.

Part of the problem we face is that people have no idea what evolution is, or what it means, or how it works. They think it's a bunch of random mutations that somehow magically produces a result. That's not even close to the truth, but that's what they think evolution is. So how could we ever expect them to adopt something that ridiculous? It's not that they're less intelligent it's just that they are rejecting what they think evolution is.

For example, Hovind used to use an example saying that "evolution says humans evolved from rocks". People believed that's what evolution says, because they don't know any better. Of course that's ridiculous, and people would be stupid to accept "evolution" if that was what evolution really was. I think that's why people say evolution is stupid, because whatever they've been told about it does sound stupid.

One very bad thing though, once their minds are closed shut, often they're not willing to even learn that what they picture in their minds is not what evolution is even about. They're not willing to learn what it really is, and weigh it on its merits.

[wonga66]

"The Big Bang theory is simply preposterous.This is not chochmah, but rather, it is shtus"! (Rav Shimon Schwab, "Rav Schwab on Prayer", Artscroll 2001, page 444).

The Big Bang theory cannot be squared with the Breishis account. According to the Torah, all the elements were made together, the Earth was formed before the stars, plants were formed before the sun, birds were created before reptiles, and the Sun, Moon and stars were formed on the Fourth Day, after the Earth.

But according to the Big Bang theory, the elements beyond hydrogen and helium were formed after millions of years, the Earth was formed long after the stars, plants evolved after the Sun, birds evolved from reptiles, and the Sun was formed before the Earth!

 The Big Bang theory was originally conceived out of a desire to have a godless naturalistic explanation for the origin of the universe. A modified view has it that when the explosive event happened, it was directed by G-d. This is called theistic evolution and is an attempt to compromise the Torah with vast-age evolutionary theories, and is currently in vogue in some Orthodox circles.

 All the many stars appeared suddenly and supernaturally in space. Scripture does not imply an explosion, which would have propelled all matter radially from its center, and by the Law of Conservation of Angular Momentum, could not have acquired the curving rotations and orbits we see everywhere in the cosmos. Worse, the Big Bang theory blatantly contradicts Newton's Law's of Motion and the Laws of Thermodynamics that state that with the passing of time there is an increase in entropy (disorder): there is a deterioration as systems go from order to disorder.         

 The Big Bang model requires belief in such arcane notions as "dark matter", "dark energy", "curved space", "neutron stars", "black holes", "superluminal  jets", and  "variously flavoured neutrinos", all theoretical entities that were invented in order to save the model from contradicting observations, and that have never been observed or photographed. It is intellectually dishonest to conjure up the existence of unobservable entities in order to save a theory that observation would otherwise disprove.



At the time of Creation "He spoke and it was; He commanded and it stood firm"  (Tehillim 33)!  The astronomical data once claimed to be evidence for the Big Bang theory, such as the Redshift and the Comic Background Radiation, instead support a rapid fully formed Geocentric creation that took place only thousands of years ago!

[Dr. Dan]

If understood correctly evolution might describe how Gd created man.

Can a tornedo hitting a garbage dumpster create a Boeing 747 airplane?

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

"The Big Bang theory is simply preposterous.This is not chochmah, but rather, it is shtus"! (Rav Shimon Schwab, "Rav Schwab on Prayer", Artscroll 2001, page 444).

The Big Bang theory cannot be squared with the Breishis account.   

lol.  Now you're getting yourself confused.    Earlier in this thread you cited Gerald Shroeder, the author of "Genesis and the Big Bang" as a legitimate "man daamar" -   You pointed to his view as a reconciliation of old and new world perspective for those who can't accept the denial of science as a point of view.

 

Do you even believe the stuff you write?