Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Questions about Judaism
muman613:
I just noticed that one of the principles of Rambam seems to contradict something which was mentioned in the article about angels. But there is an answer to this apparent contradiction {of course}...
Look at this:
--- Quote ---There was a time when people detected the accompaniment of angels and would say a short prayer to them when they parted. Although I don't know how many people can say they feel the presence of angels on the way home from synagogue on Shabbat, but even to this day the custom is to sing a song to the angels at the Friday night table.
--- End quote ---
This seems to imply that the song Shalom Aleichem {which we sing Friday night Shabbat meal} violates one of Rambams principles which say that a Jew must not pray to anyone but Hashem...
--- Quote ---5. I believe with perfect faith that it is only proper to pray to G-d. One may not pray to anyone or anything else.
--- End quote ---
Well, this excerpt from torah.org answers this...
--- Quote ---http://www.torah.org/learning/ramchal/classes/chapter6-4.html
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For the most part, angels aren’t named in the Torah (though see Daniel 8:16, 9:21, and 12:1). But the names of certain lofty and prevailing angels were revealed to us elsewhere. So we learn of Michael the angel of mercy; Gabriel the angel of justice; Raphael the angel of healing; Uriel the angel of illumination; and of others.
So while angels are indeed extraordinarily dominant in the playing out of things, and serve a high function, and thus we might be tempted to be in awe of them, they’re not at all G-d nor do they substitute for His will or intentions whatsoever. And so it has always been forbidden us to worship angels.
Thus while we’re taught that it’s angels who bring our prayers before G- d’s presence, we’re not at all to pray for their intervention, since G-d alone listens to our prayers. And in fact some great rabbis have disapproved of passages in which angels are evoked for that reason (like Shalom Aleichem, which we sing at the Shabbos table), but others defended those prayers on the grounds that we’re only asking the angels to be our couriers.
In any event Ramchal offers a number of other insights. He reveals elsewhere that an angel appears to each soul before birth to teach it Torah in preparation for life, but it then has us forget what we’d learned (for the most part) so that we could earn merit studying it (Derech Eitz Chaim). That would explain the real sense of “déjà vu” that many Torah scholars experience in their studies throughout the years. And angels also come into play in the background of everyday and certain other extraordinary events in our lives.
He also makes the point that each angel has a particular and unique task to fulfill. So when they carry through on G-d’s demands when it comes to our interactions with Him, they either strive to include what has to be done here into their purview, or they opt out altogether. In any event, they always work with things in accordance with the Divine merit system cited before (see Ch. 14), and play no role in our free choices.
--- End quote ---
edu:
To Sox7
On most of the issues you raised Judaism has no firm dogma on these questions and you will find rabbis in good standing that have opposing views.
For a more detailed answer on the first issue you raised. Read:
The Big Bang Theory- Proof or Disproof For G-d ?
at http://www.vilnagaon.org/book/creation.html
You will also find links at the web site for some of the other issues that you raised.
muman613:
--- Quote from: edu on November 19, 2010, 06:11:20 AM ---To Sox7
On most of the issues you raised Judaism has no firm dogma on these questions and you will find rabbis in good standing that have opposing views.
For a more detailed answer on the first issue you raised. Read:
The Big Bang Theory- Proof or Disproof For G-d ?
at http://www.vilnagaon.org/book/creation.html
You will also find links at the web site for some of the other issues that you raised.
--- End quote ---
Wouldn't you consider the 13 principles of faith pretty much accepted by all Orthodox Jews?
Kahane-Was-Right BT:
--- Quote from: muman613 on November 19, 2010, 10:05:50 AM ---
--- Quote from: edu on November 19, 2010, 06:11:20 AM ---To Sox7
On most of the issues you raised Judaism has no firm dogma on these questions and you will find rabbis in good standing that have opposing views.
For a more detailed answer on the first issue you raised. Read:
The Big Bang Theory- Proof or Disproof For G-d ?
at http://www.vilnagaon.org/book/creation.html
You will also find links at the web site for some of the other issues that you raised.
--- End quote ---
Wouldn't you consider the 13 principles of faith pretty much accepted by all Orthodox Jews?
--- End quote ---
It's one basic guideline, but it's also not so simple. Because there were many greats (rishonim included) who occasionally would have views on individual issues that went beyond these limits, and even with the Rambam himself it can be found statements of his that seem not to actually fit in with this general guideline if these 13 are taken literally. In short, it's a basic framework, but it's not the be-all-and-end-all, and we can't just automatically label anything beyond it as out of the pale.
edu:
To Muman13
Since the original questions raised by Sox7 weren't connected to the 13 principles of the faith, I answered him that Judaism doesn't have a firm dogma on most of the issues he raised.
He didn't for example, ask Do Jews believe in the Creation of the World by G-d? He asked in what way should the story of Creation be interpreted, and on this many rabbis have different approaches.
Sox7 didn't reject the concept of reward and punishment. He asked in what ways will reward and punishment be expressed, as far as heaven and hell and resurrection of the dead and messiah.
The answer of HOW the various rewards and punishment take place or will take place is also a subject where there is no complete consensus among good Torah observant rabbis.
Kahane-Was-Right BT also made the point, that even among the 13 principles of the faith, which I obviously accept, there are some respectable rabbis, that disagree a little bit on at least one of the 13.
In summary I would not be so quick to invalidate fellow Jews. True some times we have no choice and we have to label certain Jews as heretics, but we should work hard to find ways to judge our fellow Jews for the benefit of the doubt as much as possible.
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