Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
ERUV
Lubab:
--- Quote from: Yacov Menashe Ben Rachamim on May 30, 2007, 11:41:17 PM ---Can you carry from the public domain to somewhere else in the public domain?
--- End quote ---
No. Not more than 4 cubits.
Sarah:
Thank you for that explanation Lubab but isn’t it in a way cheating by tying a string around the city because technically you are still with strangers a.k.a the public. Are the regulations and rules for Shabbat clearly listed in Torah or did the holy rabbis form it? I mean this can’t have all been specified in the Torah itself?
judeanoncapta:
Very interesting question, Sarah. It's cool to see that you're interested in Judaism. Let me answer your question my way.
Jewish law is based on the Torah that is contained in the written torah as well as the Oral Torah which is a collection of traditions dating back to Moses as well as later rulings and enactments by Jewish judges and the Sanhedrin.
We follow both the traditions dating back to Moshe as well as the later enactments because by doing so we fulfill the words of Torah itself.
Allow me to quote: Deut. 17:8-11
If a matter of judgement is hidden from you, between blood and blood, between verdict and verdict, between plague and plague, matters of dispute in your cities -- you shall rise up and ascend to the place that the L-rd, your G-d, shall choose. You shall come to the priests, the Levites, and to the judge who will be in those days; you shall inquire and they will tell you the word of judgement. You shall do according to the word that they will tell you, from the place that G-d will choose, and you shall be careful to do according to everything that they will teach you. According to the teaching that they will teach you and according to the judgement that they will say to you, shall you do; you shall not deviate from the word that they will tell you, right or left.
What possible knowledge is there that can be hidden? If there is no oral law, then the only basis for judgement is in the Torah which is open for anyone to study.
Clearly, the entire need for the above process of going to the central court and following their ruling implies that there is an oral tradition which also serves as the basis for judgement.
Now, if a Jew decides that he would rather not carry, he may do so. The Eruv simply permits one to carry. It does not forbid someone to decide not to carry.
As regards to the "cheating" aspect, there are many aspects of Jewish judicial ruling that certain people beleive is like "cheating", such as women covering their hair with a wig. Many authorities say that this is "cheating" and therefore forbid the wives of their communities to do so. But they cannot say that a Jewish woman is doing something evil in doing so because she is simply following the ruling of different authorities.
When there is an actual Sanhedrin, all Jewish people must follow the rulings of that one central Judicial body. But today, each community follows it's authorities.
Some groups of Jews, mostly Chassidim, do not use an Eruv. So there are Jews that have your position on the matter. But they should not attempt to stone Jews who hold differently.
Until a true Sanhedrin is established, there will continue to be alot of diversity of custom and law among the Jewish people.
I hope that I answered your question to the best of my ability.
Lubab:
--- Quote from: judeanoncapta on June 01, 2007, 10:09:34 AM ---Very interesting question, Sarah. It's cool to see that you're interested in Judaism. Let me answer your question my way.
Jewish law is based on the Torah that is contained in the written torah as well as the Oral Torah which is a collection of traditions dating back to Moses as well as later rulings and enactments by Jewish judges and the Sanhedrin.
We follow both the traditions dating back to Moshe as well as the later enactments because by doing so we fulfill the words of Torah itself.
Allow me to quote: Deut. 17:8-11
If a matter of judgement is hidden from you, between blood and blood, between verdict and verdict, between plague and plague, matters of dispute in your cities -- you shall rise up and ascend to the place that the L-rd, your G-d, shall choose. You shall come to the priests, the Levites, and to the judge who will be in those days; you shall inquire and they will tell you the word of judgement. You shall do according to the word that they will tell you, from the place that G-d will choose, and you shall be careful to do according to everything that they will teach you. According to the teaching that they will teach you and according to the judgement that they will say to you, shall you do; you shall not deviate from the word that they will tell you, right or left.
What possible knowledge is there that can be hidden? If there is no oral law, then the only basis for judgement is in the Torah which is open for anyone to study.
Clearly, the entire need for the above process of going to the central court and following their ruling implies that there is an oral tradition which also serves as the basis for judgement.
Now, if a Jew decides that he would rather not carry, he may do so. The Eruv simply permits one to carry. It does not forbid someone to decide not to carry.
As regards to the "cheating" aspect, there are many aspects of Jewish judicial ruling that certain people beleive is like "cheating", such as women covering their hair with a wig. Many authorities say that this is "cheating" and therefore forbid the wives of their communities to do so. But they cannot say that a Jewish woman is doing something evil in doing so because she is simply following the ruling of different authorities.
When there is an actual Sanhedrin, all Jewish people must follow the rulings of that one central Judicial body. But today, each community follows it's authorities.
Some groups of Jews, mostly Chassidim, do not use an Eruv. So there are Jews that have your position on the matter. But they should not attempt to stone Jews who hold differently.
Until a true Sanhedrin is established, there will continue to be alot of diversity of custom and law among the Jewish people.
I hope that I answered your question to the best of my ability.
--- End quote ---
Right.
And I would just add that many Chassidim do not hold of the Eruv, not for the reason you mentioned, but because they are afraid that people will become accustomed to carrrying in what appear to be public places and then might do it even when there is no Eruv.
Also the Eruv could fall down on Shabbat and people might not know. They are concerned about that.
Also Chabad Chassidim have stricter requirements than most for what constitutes a Kosher Eruv.
Regarding "cheating"-once the Rabbis say it's o.k. with the proper Torah methodology, then it is 100% o.k. and not cheating at all. Their rulings have G-d's stamp of approval as Judeanoncapta said in the post above.
And of course all these details are not in the Written Torah, but they WERE told to Moses on Mount Sinai when the Torah was given and were passed down orally in a perfect chain until they finally written down as the Mishna (part of Talmud) because people were starting to forget the tradition.
Also note that there isn't as much diversity as people think. There are 613 commandments from the Bible and 7 more that the Rabbis added on. Most of the arguments about what to do center around those Rabbinic commandments, but generally we agree on how to fulfill the Biblical commandments. Most of the modern discrepencies center around custom, not law.
Sarah:
Thank you judeoncapta and lubab, for both answering my question! It goes to show that everything has a reason.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page
Go to full version