What is Holodomor? Soviet Genocide!

[muman613]

Many innocents died in this. I am not happy for their deaths.

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

What is this Jihad you're waging for the nation that has murdered more Jews than Islam and Rome combined?

The Ukranian nation has celeberated on Jewish blood for centuries and murdered millions. You say they're not responsible? let them prove that! because of the Holocaust they have been comitting against Jews THEY should prove their innocence and not the other way around. Same goes with Germany. Both nations prove to always remain the same Nazi monsters every generation. WHY would anybody who's not a sworn Nazi have pitty for these monsters?

The Holodomor was really nothing compared to what the Ukranian nation deserves and will get in the World to Come.

You have no human love in you. Do you think those toddlers were engaged in pogroms?

Btw, if you think random Ukrainian or German children deserve suffering and death because of what their ancestors may have done, then I am done with you. You're the only Nazi here. It's the Nazis who won in your case, because they managed to make a Jew like you, who supposedly upholds "Thou shalt not kill", into someone lusting for the deaths of thousands of children of his enemies.

Ohh look what a sweet toddler! his name is Adolphie Hitler!

"Random" does not exist in war. The children of today will be the murderous terrorists/pogromists of tommorow as their fathers are today. It's called Din Rodef.

When Saul had mercy on the weak, mercy-begging, helpless Amalekite King Agag he lost his rule and died in a battle against the Phillistines. One of his descendants was the ancient Persian Hitler Haman - this is how we paid for Saul's mercy upon the cruel as you cruel little Nazi suggest here. What G-d commands us to do was done by the Prophet Samuel when he came and slaughtered the worthless Amalekite into pieces.

You're the Nazi who spits on the memory of milllions of Jews who were murdered by the Nazi Ukranians and the Nazi Germans and defends their murderers. You say the Jews of today and the Jews of the days of the Holoacust who were TOSSED AND SHOT, BURNT, BUTCHERED AND GASSED by these same children who joined Nazi Germany's "Crusade against Jewish Bolshevism" once the Nazis occupied the Ukraine have and had to be murdered just because their murderers were once children. You say these Nazis didn't deserve to die?! They deserved much more for what they done to the Jewish people!

Btw, it's not "Thou shalt not kill" - it's "you shall not murder". Killing is a general word with neutral connotation . Murder is what your lovers did to my people. Revenge is what I will bring upon you, G-d willing.

O LORD, Thou G-d to whom vengeance belongeth, Thou G-d to whom vengeance belongeth, shine forth.

Because nothing is more Jewish than the holy principle of revenge. אֵל נְקָמוֹת ה' אֵל נְקָמוֹת הוֹפִיַע...

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

Many innocents died in this. I am not happy for their deaths.

Muman, these pogromists butchered your own ancestors and brothers. Why are you betraying their memory and blood?

Let the Jews who have mercy for these Nazis spend one hour with them so they will understand what self-hating insanity and Ukranian Nazi "innocence" really are.

[Sox7]

And with that, I leave this forum, permanently. I don't support the deaths of the children of my worst enemies. And that's the difference between my faith and yours.

[muman613]

Many innocents died in this. I am not happy for their deaths.

Muman, these pogromists butchered your own ancestors and brothers. Why are you betraying their memory and blood?

Let the Jews who have mercy for these Nazis spend one hour with them so they will understand what self-hating insanity and Ukranian Nazi "innocence" really are.

Who do you withhold mercy on and who do you not? Are you saying that righteous Jews were not killed in the genocide of the famine? Did the famine only affect the bad Jews and not the good ones? I am not sure what you are referring to...

I certainly despise those who were involved in the pogroms of the Ukraine. Many times I relate the story of the Massacre of Uman. But I don't understand how this is related to the man-made famine of the Holodomor. Maybe my understanding of history of this period is lacking. Can I read something which will explain what you are saying?

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

Many innocents died in this. I am not happy for their deaths.

Muman, these pogromists butchered your own ancestors and brothers. Why are you betraying their memory and blood?

Let the Jews who have mercy for these Nazis spend one hour with them so they will understand what self-hating insanity and Ukranian Nazi "innocence" really are.

Who do you withhold mercy on and who do you not? Are you saying that righteous Jews were not killed in the genocide of the famine? Did the famine only affect the bad Jews and not the good ones? I am not sure what you are referring to...

I certainly despise those who were involved in the pogroms of the Ukraine. Many times I relate the story of the Massacre of Uman. But I don't understand how this is related to the man-made famine of the Holodomor. Maybe my understanding of history of this period is lacking. Can I read something which will explain what you are saying?

I meant the Ukranian Nazis of course, not our Jews.

[IsraeliGovtAreKapos]

And with that, I leave this forum, permanently. I don't support the deaths of the children of my worst enemies. And that's the difference between my faith and yours.

Your faith (Russian Orthodox Christianity?) murdered our children when they were in the belly of their pregnant mothers. You cossak sub-human.

[muman613]

And with that, I leave this forum, permanently. I don't support the deaths of the children of my worst enemies. And that's the difference between my faith and yours.

Sox7,

I am sorry you feel so upset as to have to leave. I think you do not understand that there are times when we must be prepared to see the children of our enemies die. I know it is hard to comprehend, but when we deal with enemies like Amalek we have no other choice than to kill all of them, because if we do not we will once again be threatened. This is the sad lesson of Amalek and one which I have learned against my will.

In a perfect world we would all get along. And the world of Moshiach will be such a world. But today we deal with enemies which teach their children about killing Jews. Now I have never heard anyone, Rabbi Kahane included ever suggest we indoctrinate our children with arab hatred. But our enemies are propagandizing, and they are denying history, and they are turning the world against us. If we do not utterly destroy the enemy he will rise again and confront us even stronger.

Believe me, what I write does not make me happy. But my brother was a victim of the terror attacks on 9/11 and I now understand that the terrorists who killed my brother also killed our beloved Rabbi Kahane. These terrorists are attempting to spread Islam across the world, by scaring us, and killing us, and driving the Jews out of Israel.

Now I know I have not addressed the Holodomor... And I really do not understand the circumstances. At this time I do not think that it was deserved for the children to suffer. Everyone here doesn't have to agree all the time, and we can learn from each other.

Please leave open the idea that sometimes we need to resort to measures which may seem unpleasant. Judaism is not all peace and love...

[muman613]

Some attempt at an ethnic breakdown of casualties in the Holodomor:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor
According to estimates[70] about 81.3% of the famine victims in Ukrainian SRR were ethnic Ukrainians, 4.5% Russians, 1.4% Jews and 1.1% were Poles. Many Belarusians, Hungarians, Volga Germans and other nationalities became victims as well. The Ukrainian rural population was the hardest hit by the Holodomor. Since the peasantry constituted a demographic backbone of the Ukrainian nation,[73] the tragedy deeply affected the Ukrainians for many years.

Doing the math indicates maybe ~112,000-140,000 Jews died...

[Sox7]

And with that, I leave this forum, permanently. I don't support the deaths of the children of my worst enemies. And that's the difference between my faith and yours.

Your faith (Russian Orthodox Christianity?) murdered our children when they were in the belly of their pregnant mothers. You cossak sub-human.

My faith is Christian, neither Orthodox nor Catholic. And I'm not Russian or Ukrainian, I'm a Serb American. And my own compatriots had babies ripped out of their pregnant women during WWII and other times in history.

My grandmother's first husband was a Jew murdered by the Nazis. Her brother was killed by Muslim Nazi-collaborators.

My grandfather, her second husband, survived a Nazi execution attempt in WWII and a Bulgarian massacre attempt in WWI (all the rest of the village was killed, he was 5 years old). He lost his brother and sister in WWI.

So Jews don't have a monopoly on suffering. No religious or ethnic group does. Remember that.

And you know what? The anger I feel for the unpunished persecution against my people would never allow me to want any innocent person of my enemies, let alone a child, to be harmed. I don't desire revenge in this life on the children or cousins or grandchildren of the murderers. I want justice and that will come from G-d alone at the final judgment.

[muman613]

And with that, I leave this forum, permanently. I don't support the deaths of the children of my worst enemies. And that's the difference between my faith and yours.

Your faith (Russian Orthodox Christianity?) murdered our children when they were in the belly of their pregnant mothers. You cossak sub-human.

My faith is Christian, neither Orthodox nor Catholic. And I'm not Russian or Ukrainian, I'm a Serb American. And my own compatriots had babies ripped out of their pregnant women during WWII and other times in history.

My grandmother's first husband was a Jew murdered by the Nazis. Her brother was killed by Muslim Nazi-collaborators.

My grandfather, her second husband, survived a Nazi execution attempt in WWII and a Bulgarian massacre attempt in WWI (all the rest of the village was killed, he was 5 years old). He lost his brother and sister in WWI.

So Jews don't have a monopoly on suffering. No religious or ethnic group does. Remember that.

And you know what? The anger I feel for the unpunished persecution against my people would never allow me to want any innocent person of my enemies, let alone a child, to be harmed. I don't desire revenge in this life on the children or cousins or grandchildren of the murderers. I want justice and that will come from G-d alone at the final judgment.

Yes, and turn the other cheek foolishness.

This is not the Jewish way. We have been persecuted as a people for 1000s of years, longer than the Serbs... And yet we still survive... You know why? Because we are commanded to remember what was done to us, and by who it was done. True vengeance is Hashems, but we must do our part too. We are commanded to kill someone who comes to kill us. And we also can see that our enemy uses its children as weapons against us.

In order for the Jewish nation to survive it must be smart, not nice...

BTW, may I say I feel sorry for your family having been persecuted like that. I know it must be very hurtfull, as it is to me concerning how my family was persecuted.

[Kahane-Was-Right BT]

And with that, I leave this forum, permanently. I don't support the deaths of the children of my worst enemies. And that's the difference between my faith and yours.

It's sad that you feel you have to "leave the forum" because you disagree with some members about something, but don't expect anyone here to beg you to come crawling back.   You can feel free to post here just as you always did.  And you can feel free not to, just as always.   Your choice.    IMO you are making the wrong choice by "leaving."