Italian Zionist's question

[kahaneloyalist]

Italian Zionist wrote on ASK JTF

"What is the primary mission for our generation to accomplish?
The main avodah of this generation is to go out to the final war of the golus, to conquer and to purify all the gentile countries (such that "and kingship will be Hashem's," Ovadiah 1:21)."
--Shabbos Parshas VaYelech, 5746

This means that the mission of Benai Yisrael in this generation is to show the entire world the path to Hashem, to be a light unto the nations. When the whole world accepts Hashem's Malchut the world will be purified and all will be drawn close to Hashem.

As for the Jesus quotes, I dont think its news that we Jews dont think highly of Jesus, while the Gemara may not be refering to your Jesus, it was a very common name at the time, if it is it shouldnt really come as a great surprise. Chaim follows a lenient opinion in regards to Christianity, the opinion of the Meiri, but other Jews like Lubavitch follow the opinion of the Rambam, that non-Jews should follow the Sheva Mitzvot Benai Noach, and through that serve Hashem, and it is our duty to bring the Goyim to the Sheva Mitzvot Benai Noach.

[Lubab]

Italian Zionist wrote on ASK JTF

"What is the primary mission for our generation to accomplish?
The main avodah of this generation is to go out to the final war of the golus, to conquer and to purify all the gentile countries (such that "and kingship will be Hashem's," Ovadiah 1:21)."
--Shabbos Parshas VaYelech, 5746

Chaim follows a lenient opinion in regards to Christianity, the opinion of the Meiri, but other Jews like Lubavitch follow the opinion of the Rambam, that non-Jews should follow the Sheva Mitzvot Benai Noach, and through that serve Hashem, and it is our duty to bring the Goyim to the Sheva Mitzvot Benai Noach.

What does the Meriri say?

[kahaneloyalist]

That Christianity is acceptable for the Goyim and any "civilized people" may be considered Ben Noach.

[ftf]

As far as I know, Chrisitianity includes the laws of Noah, so I can't see what the issue is. I know full well what Jews think of Jesus, I also believe that the majority of Jews are going to accept as the messiah a very evil man, the one referred to as the beast or antichrist by some. You think the one we think is the messiah is evil we think that the one that you will think is the messiah is evil.

[Lubab]

As far as I know, Chrisitianity includes the laws of Noah, so I can't see what the issue is. I know full well what Jews think of Jesus, I also believe that the majority of Jews are going to accept as the messiah a very evil man, the one referred to as the beast or antichrist by some. You think the one we think is the messiah is evil we think that the one that you will think is the messiah is evil.

I beleive that the Rambam's big problem with Christiantiy was not so much who they believe is the Messiah, but the belief in the trinity which he considered to be idol worship because you're saying there are other powers that are outside and can fight with G-d.

[kahaneloyalist]

As far as I know, Chrisitianity includes the laws of Noah, so I can't see what the issue is. I know full well what Jews think of Jesus, I also believe that the majority of Jews are going to accept as the messiah a very evil man, the one referred to as the beast or antichrist by some. You think the one we think is the messiah is evil we think that the one that you will think is the messiah is evil.

I beleive that the Rambam's big problem with Christiantiy was not so much who they believe is the Messiah, but the belief in the trinity which he considered to be idol worship because you're saying there are other powers that are outside and can fight with G-d.

The Rambam did indeed have a problem with the Trinity, but if you will look at the Rambam's definition of a Ben Noach it is ;a Goy must accept the Torah and that the Sheva Mitzvot Benai Noach are from the Torah, and must be followed not because they are logical but because they were revealed by Hashem. He specifically says if a Goy follows another religion that happens to include the Mitzvot he is not a Ben Noach, or if he follows them because they are logical to him, he is not a Ben Noach.

Check out Rambam Hilchot Melachim its all there.

[ftf]

As far as I know, Chrisitianity includes the laws of Noah, so I can't see what the issue is. I know full well what Jews think of Jesus, I also believe that the majority of Jews are going to accept as the messiah a very evil man, the one referred to as the beast or antichrist by some. You think the one we think is the messiah is evil we think that the one that you will think is the messiah is evil.

I beleive that the Rambam's big problem with Christiantiy was not so much who they believe is the Messiah, but the belief in the trinity which he considered to be idol worship because you're saying there are other powers that are outside and can fight with G-d.

You seam to have a completely incorrect understanding of the christian concept of the trinity, we believe in only one God, we just beleive that he has three distinct parts to him, a man has arms, a body, and a head, three parts of the same man. We believe that God consists of the Father, the SOn and the holy Spirit, three components of the same God, that are as connected to each other as body ars and head of a human. We do believe that Satan exists and can fight with God, but we don;t think we should worship him, far from it.

[Lisa]

Guys, as you can probably tell by now, I'm not a fan of these types of threads on this forum.  If the Jewish posters have questions about Christianity, or vice versa, I think this would be best handled by private messages, where you all can hopefully be respectful of one another. 

Chaim said on one of the ask JTF shows that Jews are forbidden to compartmentalize G-d in the form of a trinity, or anything else. 

So I think in this area, we're all going to have to agree to disagree, OK? 

[judeanoncapta]

As far as I know, Chrisitianity includes the laws of Noah, so I can't see what the issue is. I know full well what Jews think of Jesus, I also believe that the majority of Jews are going to accept as the messiah a very evil man, the one referred to as the beast or antichrist by some. You think the one we think is the messiah is evil we think that the one that you will think is the messiah is evil.

Besides the question of Trinity and idol worship, there other Noahide commandments that I have NEVER seen Christians follow. Genesis chapter 9 Noah is commanded not to eat animal blood. I've never known a Christian to refuse a medium rare bloody steak on grounds of biblical law.

Have you, ftf?

[Zvulun Ben Moshe]

As for the Jesus quotes, I dont think its news that we Jews dont think highly of Jesus, while the Gemara may not be refering to your Jesus, it was a very common name at the time, if it is it shouldnt really come as a great surprise. Chaim follows a lenient opinion in regards to Christianity, the opinion of the Meiri, but other Jews like Lubavitch follow the opinion of the Rambam, that non-Jews should follow the Sheva Mitzvot Benai Noach, and through that serve Hashem, and it is our duty to bring the Goyim to the Sheva Mitzvot Benai Noach.

Here is what I think of the situation with Jesus.

Jesus, or to be more precise, Yeshua ben Yosef, was:

1) a Jew, first and foremost
2) a patriot
3) someone, who saw the suffering of the Jews under Roman occupation and witnessed the hopelessness of the struggle of Jewish people against the occupants
4) someone, who witnessed, along with other Jews, that Messiah was not coming despite the tragic condition of his people
5) someone, who understood that you could not defeat the strongest army of Romans with violence
6) someone, who witnessed how Jews were losing hope and faith because Messiah’s “delay”
7) someone, who took a risky path of claiming divine nature to save his people
8} someone, who could not save Jews, but refused to give up his claim

For me, Jesus is not a Messiah, but definitely a son of my people, who wanted to free Israel.

He is a lesson for me that Jews should not rely on G-d’s messengers when they can do the job on their own. They should not wait for the Messiah, in order to become righteous. But become righteous now, and that total holiness of the people will be equivalent to the coming of the Messiah.

[kahaneloyalist]

As for the Jesus quotes, I dont think its news that we Jews dont think highly of Jesus, while the Gemara may not be refering to your Jesus, it was a very common name at the time, if it is it shouldnt really come as a great surprise. Chaim follows a lenient opinion in regards to Christianity, the opinion of the Meiri, but other Jews like Lubavitch follow the opinion of the Rambam, that non-Jews should follow the Sheva Mitzvot Benai Noach, and through that serve Hashem, and it is our duty to bring the Goyim to the Sheva Mitzvot Benai Noach.

Here is what I think of the situation with Jesus.

Jesus, or to be more precise, Yeshua ben Yosef, was:

1) a Jew, first and foremost
2) a patriot
3) someone, who saw the suffering of the Jews under Roman occupation and witnessed the hopelessness of the struggle of Jewish people against the occupants
4) someone, who witnessed, along with other Jews, that Messiah was not coming despite the tragic condition of his people
5) someone, who understood that you could not defeat the strongest army of Romans with violence
6) someone, who witnessed how Jews were losing hope and faith because Messiah’s “delay”
7) someone, who took a risky path of claiming divine nature to save his people
8} someone, who could not save Jews, but refused to give up his claim

For me, Jesus is not a Messiah, but definitely a son of my people, who wanted to free Israel.

He is a lesson for me that Jews should not rely on G-d’s messengers when they can do the job on their own. They should not wait for the Messiah, in order to become righteous. But become righteous now, and that total holiness of the people will be equivalent to the coming of the Messiah.

I write this only in response to some misconceptions of a fellow Jew, this is not a attack on those Christians who Chaim considers righteous gentiles

I am afraid you are mistaken what Jesus actually was
1) A Jew who abandoned the Torah
2) A traitor who sold out his people to the Romans
3) Someone who did everything he could to weaken the Jewish people spiritually and physically, and he was wrong about the Jews beating the Romans, Bar Kochba did beat them, and would have kept beating them had he not done Averot
4) Abandoned the most basic tenants of Judaism, which include the belief in the coming of Mashiach
5) Claimed we couldnt beat the Romans and yet Bar Kochba managed to do it
6) Someone who made insane claims of divinity which were mostly laughed at by Jews. His interest in "saving" his people is the equivalent of the Reform's interest in "saving" the Jewish people.
7) Someone who wasnt interested in saving Jews so much as being important
8} His claim led to the death of more Jews than can be counted
And Jesus never had any interest in "freeing" the Jewish people, the only freedom he wanted to give was freedom from the Ole Malchut Shamaim

[Zvulun Ben Moshe]

As for the Jesus quotes, I dont think its news that we Jews dont think highly of Jesus, while the Gemara may not be refering to your Jesus, it was a very common name at the time, if it is it shouldnt really come as a great surprise. Chaim follows a lenient opinion in regards to Christianity, the opinion of the Meiri, but other Jews like Lubavitch follow the opinion of the Rambam, that non-Jews should follow the Sheva Mitzvot Benai Noach, and through that serve Hashem, and it is our duty to bring the Goyim to the Sheva Mitzvot Benai Noach.

Here is what I think of the situation with Jesus.

Jesus, or to be more precise, Yeshua ben Yosef, was:

1) a Jew, first and foremost
2) a patriot
3) someone, who saw the suffering of the Jews under Roman occupation and witnessed the hopelessness of the struggle of Jewish people against the occupants
4) someone, who witnessed, along with other Jews, that Messiah was not coming despite the tragic condition of his people
5) someone, who understood that you could not defeat the strongest army of Romans with violence
6) someone, who witnessed how Jews were losing hope and faith because Messiah’s “delay”
7) someone, who took a risky path of claiming divine nature to save his people
8} someone, who could not save Jews, but refused to give up his claim

For me, Jesus is not a Messiah, but definitely a son of my people, who wanted to free Israel.

He is a lesson for me that Jews should not rely on G-d’s messengers when they can do the job on their own. They should not wait for the Messiah, in order to become righteous. But become righteous now, and that total holiness of the people will be equivalent to the coming of the Messiah.

I write this only in response to some misconceptions of a fellow Jew, this is not a attack on those Christians who Chaim considers righteous gentiles

I am afraid you are mistaken what Jesus actually was
1) A Jew who abandoned the Torah
2) A traitor who sold out his people to the Romans
3) Someone who did everything he could to weaken the Jewish people spiritually and physically, and he was wrong about the Jews beating the Romans, Bar Kochba did beat them, and would have kept beating them had he not done Averot
4) Abandoned the most basic tenants of Judaism, which include the belief in the coming of Mashiach
5) Claimed we couldnt beat the Romans and yet Bar Kochba managed to do it
6) Someone who made insane claims of divinity which were mostly laughed at by Jews. His interest in "saving" his people is the equivalent of the Reform's interest in "saving" the Jewish people.
7) Someone who wasnt interested in saving Jews so much as being important
8} His claim led to the death of more Jews than can be counted
And Jesus never had any interest in "freeing" the Jewish people, the only freedom he wanted to give was freedom from the Ole Malchut Shamaim

I am not afraid to be mistaken, but I'd like to clarify a few things first:

1) He surely did abandon the Torah. Here you can talk to any Holocaust survivor. He will tell you how “sometimes” it is very hard to continue believing.
2) Weren't it Romans who killed him at the end? Sounds like "the deal" didn't go through.
3) Bar Kochba was a hero, who organized the fieriest resistance to Romans in the history, but unfortunately we were still expelled from Israel.
4) Well, he claimed that he was the one. How about that? 
5) Bar Kochba managed to harm Romans, but could not defeat them.
6) By wishing to "save Jews" I meant freeing them as a people from a long and tragic occupation.
7) He was ambitious enough to risk his life.
8} If you are referring to inquisitions and pogroms, then this is a proof that the pagan Europeans remained pagan and never became Christian. If Christianity means "mercy, love, and forgiveness", then the only people who really followed these principles were Jews.

He did not have to give freedom from the Ole Malchut Shamaim. Thousands of Jews at that time already worshipped Roman idols.

[kahaneloyalist]

As for the Jesus quotes, I dont think its news that we Jews dont think highly of Jesus, while the Gemara may not be refering to your Jesus, it was a very common name at the time, if it is it shouldnt really come as a great surprise. Chaim follows a lenient opinion in regards to Christianity, the opinion of the Meiri, but other Jews like Lubavitch follow the opinion of the Rambam, that non-Jews should follow the Sheva Mitzvot Benai Noach, and through that serve Hashem, and it is our duty to bring the Goyim to the Sheva Mitzvot Benai Noach.

Here is what I think of the situation with Jesus.

Jesus, or to be more precise, Yeshua ben Yosef, was:

1) a Jew, first and foremost
2) a patriot
3) someone, who saw the suffering of the Jews under Roman occupation and witnessed the hopelessness of the struggle of Jewish people against the occupants
4) someone, who witnessed, along with other Jews, that Messiah was not coming despite the tragic condition of his people
5) someone, who understood that you could not defeat the strongest army of Romans with violence
6) someone, who witnessed how Jews were losing hope and faith because Messiah’s “delay”
7) someone, who took a risky path of claiming divine nature to save his people
8} someone, who could not save Jews, but refused to give up his claim

For me, Jesus is not a Messiah, but definitely a son of my people, who wanted to free Israel.

He is a lesson for me that Jews should not rely on G-d’s messengers when they can do the job on their own. They should not wait for the Messiah, in order to become righteous. But become righteous now, and that total holiness of the people will be equivalent to the coming of the Messiah.

I write this only in response to some misconceptions of a fellow Jew, this is not a attack on those Christians who Chaim considers righteous gentiles

I am afraid you are mistaken what Jesus actually was
1) A Jew who abandoned the Torah
2) A traitor who sold out his people to the Romans
3) Someone who did everything he could to weaken the Jewish people spiritually and physically, and he was wrong about the Jews beating the Romans, Bar Kochba did beat them, and would have kept beating them had he not done Averot
4) Abandoned the most basic tenants of Judaism, which include the belief in the coming of Mashiach
5) Claimed we couldnt beat the Romans and yet Bar Kochba managed to do it
6) Someone who made insane claims of divinity which were mostly laughed at by Jews. His interest in "saving" his people is the equivalent of the Reform's interest in "saving" the Jewish people.
7) Someone who wasnt interested in saving Jews so much as being important
8} His claim led to the death of more Jews than can be counted
And Jesus never had any interest in "freeing" the Jewish people, the only freedom he wanted to give was freedom from the Ole Malchut Shamaim

I am not afraid to be mistaken, but I'd like to clarify a few things first:

1) He surely did abandon the Torah. Here you can talk to any Holocaust survivor. He will tell you how “sometimes” it is very hard to continue believing.
2) Weren't it Romans who killed him at the end? Sounds like "the deal" didn't go through.
3) Bar Kochba was a hero, who organized the fieriest resistance to Romans in the history, but unfortunately we were still expelled from Israel.
4) Well, he claimed that he was the one. How about that? 
5) Bar Kochba managed to harm Romans, but could not defeat them.
6) By wishing to "save Jews" I meant freeing them as a people from a long and tragic occupation.
7) He was ambitious enough to risk his life.
8} If you are referring to inquisitions and pogroms, then this is a proof that the pagan Europeans remained pagan and never became Christian. If Christianity means "mercy, love, and forgiveness", then the only people who really followed these principles were Jews.

He did not have to give freedom from the Ole Malchut Shamaim. Thousands of Jews at that time already worshipped Roman idols.

1) and they are wrong as well
2) Yes, the Romans did kill him, he got a touch too ambitious for their liking
3) Yes, Bar Kochba was defeated in the end, but he first drove the Romans from Eretz Yisrael, it was only when he did averot by allying with the Goy Samaritans that he, and Benai Yisrael were punished
4) Yes, Yeshu made the claim but distorted the idea of Mashiach away from the Torah version to the absurd beliefs he is know for
5) He did beat them, Eretz Yisrael was independant for three years, and Bar Kochba was unbeatable, it was only when he did Averot that the Romans began to win again, even then the Romans knew it to be a Pyrric victory
6) Except he had no interest in ending Roman occupation
7) In this you are correct he was extremely ambitious
8} Explain how you wish

Yes, some Jews were immersed in the Roman culture but that doesnt in any way lesson the evil inherent in encouraging rebellion from the Torah

[Zvulun Ben Moshe]

As for the Jesus quotes, I dont think its news that we Jews dont think highly of Jesus, while the Gemara may not be refering to your Jesus, it was a very common name at the time, if it is it shouldnt really come as a great surprise. Chaim follows a lenient opinion in regards to Christianity, the opinion of the Meiri, but other Jews like Lubavitch follow the opinion of the Rambam, that non-Jews should follow the Sheva Mitzvot Benai Noach, and through that serve Hashem, and it is our duty to bring the Goyim to the Sheva Mitzvot Benai Noach.

Here is what I think of the situation with Jesus.

Jesus, or to be more precise, Yeshua ben Yosef, was:

1) a Jew, first and foremost
2) a patriot
3) someone, who saw the suffering of the Jews under Roman occupation and witnessed the hopelessness of the struggle of Jewish people against the occupants
4) someone, who witnessed, along with other Jews, that Messiah was not coming despite the tragic condition of his people
5) someone, who understood that you could not defeat the strongest army of Romans with violence
6) someone, who witnessed how Jews were losing hope and faith because Messiah’s “delay”
7) someone, who took a risky path of claiming divine nature to save his people
8} someone, who could not save Jews, but refused to give up his claim

For me, Jesus is not a Messiah, but definitely a son of my people, who wanted to free Israel.

He is a lesson for me that Jews should not rely on G-d’s messengers when they can do the job on their own. They should not wait for the Messiah, in order to become righteous. But become righteous now, and that total holiness of the people will be equivalent to the coming of the Messiah.

I write this only in response to some misconceptions of a fellow Jew, this is not a attack on those Christians who Chaim considers righteous gentiles

I am afraid you are mistaken what Jesus actually was
1) A Jew who abandoned the Torah
2) A traitor who sold out his people to the Romans
3) Someone who did everything he could to weaken the Jewish people spiritually and physically, and he was wrong about the Jews beating the Romans, Bar Kochba did beat them, and would have kept beating them had he not done Averot
4) Abandoned the most basic tenants of Judaism, which include the belief in the coming of Mashiach
5) Claimed we couldnt beat the Romans and yet Bar Kochba managed to do it
6) Someone who made insane claims of divinity which were mostly laughed at by Jews. His interest in "saving" his people is the equivalent of the Reform's interest in "saving" the Jewish people.
7) Someone who wasnt interested in saving Jews so much as being important
8} His claim led to the death of more Jews than can be counted
And Jesus never had any interest in "freeing" the Jewish people, the only freedom he wanted to give was freedom from the Ole Malchut Shamaim

I am not afraid to be mistaken, but I'd like to clarify a few things first:

1) He surely did abandon the Torah. Here you can talk to any Holocaust survivor. He will tell you how “sometimes” it is very hard to continue believing.
2) Weren't it Romans who killed him at the end? Sounds like "the deal" didn't go through.
3) Bar Kochba was a hero, who organized the fieriest resistance to Romans in the history, but unfortunately we were still expelled from Israel.
4) Well, he claimed that he was the one. How about that? 
5) Bar Kochba managed to harm Romans, but could not defeat them.
6) By wishing to "save Jews" I meant freeing them as a people from a long and tragic occupation.
7) He was ambitious enough to risk his life.
8} If you are referring to inquisitions and pogroms, then this is a proof that the pagan Europeans remained pagan and never became Christian. If Christianity means "mercy, love, and forgiveness", then the only people who really followed these principles were Jews.

He did not have to give freedom from the Ole Malchut Shamaim. Thousands of Jews at that time already worshipped Roman idols.

1) and they are wrong as well
2) Yes, the Romans did kill him, he got a touch too ambitious for their liking
3) Yes, Bar Kochba was defeated in the end, but he first drove the Romans from Eretz Yisrael, it was only when he did averot by allying with the Goy Samaritans that he, and Benai Yisrael were punished
4) Yes, Yeshu made the claim but distorted the idea of Mashiach away from the Torah version to the absurd beliefs he is know for
5) He did beat them, Eretz Yisrael was independant for three years, and Bar Kochba was unbeatable, it was only when he did Averot that the Romans began to win again, even then the Romans knew it to be a Pyrric victory
6) Except he had no interest in ending Roman occupation
7) In this you are correct he was extremely ambitious
8} Explain how you wish

Yes, some Jews were immersed in the Roman culture but that doesnt in any way lesson the evil inherent in encouraging rebellion from the Torah

kahaneloyalist, I respect you for being an honest and sincere debator by agreeing with good points and disagreeing with questionable ones.

[ftf]

As far as I know, Chrisitianity includes the laws of Noah, so I can't see what the issue is. I know full well what Jews think of Jesus, I also believe that the majority of Jews are going to accept as the messiah a very evil man, the one referred to as the beast or antichrist by some. You think the one we think is the messiah is evil we think that the one that you will think is the messiah is evil.

Besides the question of Trinity and idol worship, there other Noahide commandments that I have NEVER seen Christians follow. Genesis chapter 9 Noah is commanded not to eat animal blood. I've never known a Christian to refuse a medium rare bloody steak on grounds of biblical law.

Have you, ftf?

I've never thought of it as biblical law, but I don't eat animal blood, it seams repulsive to me, regarding steak, steak makes me ill if it's not really well done, if I eat a steak at a restaurant, I will ask for it well done and some more.

I must add that if the other areas of discussion in this thread are to continue, and by the current forum rules as I understand them I am not allowed to respond to them in any way I will have to regretfully leave this forum.

[kahaneloyalist]

I'd say we are done.

I dont believe that Goyim are forbidden from eating animal blood, isnt the phrohibition that Goyim arent allowed to be cruel to animals? Like removing a portion of the animal while its still alive?

[Nic Brookes]

As far as I know, Chrisitianity includes the laws of Noah, so I can't see what the issue is. I know full well what Jews think of Jesus, I also believe that the majority of Jews are going to accept as the messiah a very evil man, the one referred to as the beast or antichrist by some. You think the one we think is the messiah is evil we think that the one that you will think is the messiah is evil.

Besides the question of Trinity and idol worship, there other Noahide commandments that I have NEVER seen Christians follow. Genesis chapter 9 Noah is commanded not to eat animal blood. I've never known a Christian to refuse a medium rare bloody steak on grounds of biblical law.

Have you, ftf?

I've never thought of it as biblical law, but I don't eat animal blood, it seams repulsive to me, regarding steak, steak makes me ill if it's not really well done, if I eat a steak at a restaurant, I will ask for it well done and some more.

I must add that if the other areas of discussion in this thread are to continue, and by the current forum rules as I understand them I am not allowed to respond to them in any way I will have to regretfully leave this forum.

No! Don't leave!

[Shlomo]

GUYS! What are you doing?? Is that what you want? For FTF and others to leave? For what?

I want to be gentile about this but I also want to be clear. This is COMPLETELY against the rules, against what Chaim says to do, and only HURTS JTF. Why would you do such a thing? This makes me very sad.

I care so much about all of you. This hurts. I don't even know what to say... I'm just disappointed.

I have never let any Christians push their differences and now why would I let the Jewish members do the same? That was very wrong and very divisive.

We aren't going to agree 100% on religious beliefs. Come on... this is obvious. But let's keep peace and the goal in mind. Let's be respectful to our Christian brothers just as they should be respectful to us. We are supposed to try and save Israel and America. Please... put your differences aside.

And please... apologize to FTF. He is an OUTSTANDING member of this forum and it would hurt us to lose him.

I appeal to you, FTF... we need you. You are one of our TOP MEMBERS and a moderator. We don't need you to threaten leaving. We need you to stay and help with the fight. Stuff like this is always going to happen from time to time... in ANY group of people. That doesn't mean we just give up and throw our hands up. You are a moderator. You should speak out when people break the rules and help stop this stuff. It was clearly a violation of the rules of this forum.

jeffguy

[Zvulun Ben Moshe]

FTF, and anyone who found my words offensive, please accept my apologies.

Our planet is round. Whichever path you choose, our ways will cross again.

So why depart?

[Shlomo]

Thanks, Zvulun ben Moshe.

You guys are all so important to the forum. I know that no one meant any harm.

I think things will be ok here.

[jsullivan]

This entire thread violates the rules.

If we are all going to argue about whose religion is the best, then Jews and Christians can never work together.

In fact, if we are going to start fighting over whose religion is the best, then evangelical Christians and Catholics can never work together. Let me be brutally honest: many evangelical Christians consider the Pope and the Vatican to be Satanic, and many Catholics in response, consider the evangelicals to be Catholic-bashing bigots. And I most certainly am NOT exaggerating. So should evangelicals and Catholics be fighting each other here too?

We do all agree on the need to save America, Israel and Western civilization from both Islam and from the traitor politicians, news media and multinational corporations that are destroying all Western countries. That is why we are part of JTF. Not to demand that people from other religious backgrounds convert to our beliefs. If your main goal is missionary activity, then JTF is NOT the right group for you. And I am referring here to ALL types of missionaries: Christians who want to convert Jews and Catholics; Jews who want Christians to become bnei Noach; and so on.

We are going to have outbursts like this from time to time because we have many different people here from many different backgrounds. We can't control everybody all of the time.

But when this happens, our job is to stop this type of argument.

BECAUSE IF WE ALL FIGHT EACH OTHER, THE MUSLIMS AND THE "NEW WORLD ORDER" MULTINATIONAL CORPORATE TRAITORS WILL WIN.

kahaneloyalist, I know that you have good intentions, but from now on, threads like this are not permitted. We are not going to argue about Jesus because if we do, automatically it will lead to divisive results: Christians believe in Jesus, Jews do not. Catholics believe in the Pope, evangelicals do not. Anyone who cannot accept these differences, and who cannot work together on the great issues that we do agree on, does not belief in JTF.

Admins and mods: the next time a thread like this opens up, it should be locked immediately and an explanation should be given to whoever opened the thread.