Torah and Jewish Idea > Torah and Jewish Idea
Chabad and Jewish Messianism [Machon Shilo Shiur]
Ari Ben-Canaan:
http://machonshilo.org/en/eng/list-audio-shiurim/41-audiohalakha/475-habad-and-jewish-messianism
I believe the Rabbi who gives the Shiurim on this website is Rav Davidh Bar-Hayim. It is a 4 part/4 hour Shiur on Chabad and a look at its controversial messisanism focused around their deceased Rebbe, and how it is a grave violation of Halakcha. I have enjoyed good times with Chabad, but I have also been warned by a Rabbi and an ultra-Orthodox Jew that you need to watch out for idolation in Chabad, although both people I spoke with also had good things to say about Chabad. I am not ready to give up going to Chabad because I personally have yet to see idolation going on, or instructions to pray to their Rebbe personally, but I have heard about it before in person, and on the internet as well, but until here never addressed in painstakingly clear terms of Halakcha by a very competent Orthodox Rabbi.
"Habad and Jewish Messianism
Monday, 17 January 2011 15:12
Part One: Though the term "messiah" is not mentioned in the Torah, the Rambam describes the attributes of the messiah, and the Rebbe doesn't qualify. Parallels between theology of some Chabad adherents and Christianity.
http://machonshilo.org/en/images/stories/files/Habad-Jewish%20Messianism1D.mp3
Download Part One
Part Two: Why Jews are drawn to supernatural salvation - even though Hashem has saved us repeatedly through natural means. Is a miracle worker the messiah? Examples from the Torah.
http://machonshilo.org/en/images/stories/files/Habad-Jewish%20Messianism2D.mp3
Download Part Two
Part Three: How to relate to someone with strange ideas or who claims he is Hashem. A sin greater than eating pork. The halachic rationale behind destroying some yeshivoth to save others. Habad uproots the Torah mishnah of sleeping in the sukkah.
http://machonshilo.org/en/images/stories/files/HabadJewishMessianism3D.mp3
Download Part Three
Part Four: Regarding a Jew who believes that a man is Hashem, or who prays to a man instead of Hashem, can you drink wine he has touched? Must you burn tefillin, mezzuzoth, or even a Torah he has written? Plus: A Habad house may possibly be a place of idol worship.
http://machonshilo.org/en/images/stories/files/Habad-JewishMessianism4D.mp3
Download Part Four"
muman613:
I think this is a bunch of BS...
I know several Chabad Rabbis and not a single one has said anything about Rebbe being Moshiach... I have asked point blank about it and they have answered me honestly. There have been some who believed this heresy... But I have not seen any Chabad rabbis say this... I have listened to Hours and Hours of Rabbi shuirs on Chabad.org and have never heard them suggest that Rebbe was Moshiach.
It has been a common tactic of the Mitnagdim to attack Chassidus. This has been the case since the origins of Chassidic Judaism. There are those who accuse Rabbi Nachmans followers of believing he was Moshiach. I have studied Breslov for a while and have never seen it said that he was Moshiach. But he was accused, and his followers are accused to this day, of following a false Moshiach.
One of the basic ideas of Chassidus is the concept of a spiritual leader of a generation, called in Chassidus the Tzaddik of the generation. Another related idea is the 39 hidden tzadikim of the generation. The spiritual leader is steeped in study of Talmud and Torah. He also brings down Kabbalah to a level which the average Jew can understand. This is why all major branches of Chassidus, which stem from the legacy of the Baal Shem Tov, contain elements of Kabbalah. Another important concept in both Lubavitch and Breslov is the idea of simcha. Joy is a commandment and this is why we sing and dance and engage in singing during davening.
I do not believe that the Chabad organization is teaching people that Rebbe was the Moshiach. I was afraid of this for a while but I am pretty confident now that this is just a rumor held by some who look for problems with Chassidic Judaism as a whole.
muman613:
All of those topics are completely false...
Chabad does not teach that Hashem is a man... There is no idol worship at Chabad houses...
The redemption from Egypt is the prototype of the future redemption. I consider that redemption to be totally miraculous... And I believe that there will be some major miracles in the future redemption. If you don't believe that this is the case just read the Song at the Sea and tell me that they did not "See Hashem" when they pointed and said "This is my L-rd, I will build him a house".
I think that this rabbi has some sour grapes.. And he is engaged in massive Lashon Hara against good Jews...
muman613:
Don't tell me you listen to this 'rabbi'...
In the first tape he claims that these beliefs are held by 'some CHabad' and then goes on to attack Chabad as an organization. I call that a straw man argument. And I refuse to learn anything from this man..
--- Quote ---Part One: Though the term "messiah" is not mentioned in the Torah, the Rambam describes the attributes of the messiah, and the Rebbe doesn't qualify. Parallels between theology of some Chabad adherents and Christianity.
--- End quote ---
Ari Ben-Canaan:
--- Quote from: muman613 on February 01, 2011, 01:36:03 AM ---I think this is a bunch of BS...
I know several Chabad Rabbis and not a single one has said anything about Rebbe being Moshiach... I have asked point blank about it and they have answered me honestly. There have been some who believed this heresy... But I have not seen any Chabad rabbis say this... I have listened to Hours and Hours of Rabbi shuirs on Chabad.org and have never heard them suggest that Rebbe was Moshiach.
It has been a common tactic of the Mitnagdim to attack Chassidus. This has been the case since the origins of Chassidic Judaism. There are those who accuse Rabbi Nachmans followers of believing he was Moshiach. I have studied Breslov for a while and have never seen it said that he was Moshiach. But he was accused, and his followers are accused to this day, of following a false Moshiach.
One of the basic ideas of Chassidus is the concept of a spiritual leader of a generation, called in Chassidus the Tzaddik of the generation. Another related idea is the 39 hidden tzadikim of the generation. The spiritual leader is steeped in study of Talmud and Torah. He also brings down Kabbalah to a level which the average Jew can understand. This is why all major branches of Chassidus, which stem from the legacy of the Baal Shem Tov, contain elements of Kabbalah. Another important concept in both Lubavitch and Breslov is the idea of simcha. Joy is a commandment and this is why we sing and dance and engage in singing during davening.
I do not believe that the Chabad organization is teaching people that Rebbe was the Moshiach. I was afraid of this for a while but I am pretty confident now that this is just a rumor held by some who look for problems with Chassidic Judaism as a whole.
--- End quote ---
Did you listen to the Shiur? The Shiurim this Rabbi gives are pretty good. I was tipped off to the website by KWRBT.
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