Author Topic: To British Sword -- Regarding Your Questions To Chaim  (Read 2046 times)

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Offline Lisa

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To British Sword -- Regarding Your Questions To Chaim
« on: February 19, 2011, 08:53:28 PM »
Obviously, I'm not Chaim.  But I just wanted to respond to your questions about halal vs. kosher meat, and Jews getting a free pass for sinning, since I feel very strongly about these issues.  

Regarding halal vs. kosher slaughter:

As you pointed out, halal slaughter consists of the animal's throat being cut.  From what I understand, the Muslims cut the animal's neck completely from one side to the other, while saying "bism'allah."  With kosher slaughter, just the main artery is cut.  But there are many more differences.  Muman and KWRBT, feel free to correct me here if I'm wrong.

According to Jewish law, you are not allowed to slaughter an animal the same day as it's mother, or in front of it's mother.  Also, if the animal escapes, you are NOT allowed to go after it.  

Now once the animal is dead, its internal organs are then checked for any signs of abnormality.  If anything looks abnormal, the animal is NOT kosher.  If everything on the inside looks OK, the meat is then salted to get rid of the excess blood, as the soul of the animal is in its blood.  After that, you're good to go.  

Furthermore, Jews are forbidden from mixing milk and meat products, whereas Muslims do mix milk and meat.  It comes from the Torah command not to seethe the kid in its mother's milk.  Milk represents life, whereas blood (specifically, the loss it) represents death.  We don't mix the two.  

Regarding Jews getting supposedly getting a "free pass" when it comes to sinning:

Jews DO NOT get a free pass when it comes to sinning because they're the chosen people.  Being the chosen people does not mean that Jews are better than non-Jews.  All it means is that G-d chose the Jews to receive his laws.  

In Judaism there are two kinds of sins.  One kind is the sins against other people.  The second kind consists of sins against G-d, such as not observing Shabbat, among other things.  So if a Jew wrongs or harms another individual, he must ask that person for forgiveness.  It's for the sins against G-d that we pray for forgiveness in the Synagogue.  

Regarding Jews using the word "goyim" and the expression "gentile brains."

The word "goy" in itself is not derogatory.  All it means is people from other nations, or non-Jews.  As for the expression "gentile brains,"  I've never in my life heard such a thing, and I've always lived in very Jewish areas.  

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: To British Sword -- Regarding Your Questions To Chaim
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2011, 09:16:04 PM »
Chosenness refers to the fact that God chose us to give his laws and commandments to and we have to observe them.   Of course, with this privilege comes a lot of responsibility.

If any non-Jew wants to become "chosen" he can get in touch with an Orthodox rabbi, learn up our laws (what you will be obligated to keep if you convert and become chosen) do a conversion with an orthodox beit din, then observe all the commandments and festivals etc and You Too can be just as chosen to follow torah as any Jew after that process.

The idea that goy is derogatory is a joke because every week in our shabbat afternoon prayers we refer to ourselves as goy echad (one nation) that God chose to give his commandments.

We are punished for sins and rewarded for good deeds.  So is every person regardless of creed.

Offline muman613

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Re: To British Sword -- Regarding Your Questions To Chaim
« Reply #2 on: February 20, 2011, 01:41:22 AM »
Chosenness refers to the fact that G-d chose us to give his laws and commandments to and we have to observe them.   Of course, with this privilege comes a lot of responsibility.

If any non-Jew wants to become "chosen" he can get in touch with an Orthodox rabbi, learn up our laws (what you will be obligated to keep if you convert and become chosen) do a conversion with an orthodox beit din, then observe all the commandments and festivals etc and You Too can be just as chosen to follow torah as any Jew after that process.

The idea that goy is derogatory is a joke because every week in our shabbat afternoon prayers we refer to ourselves as goy echad (one nation) that G-d chose to give his commandments.

We are punished for sins and rewarded for good deeds.  So is every person regardless of creed.

Hashem also calls us Goy Kadosh, a Holy Nation...

Jews have 613 commandments compared to the non-Jew who only has 7 commands {and their associated sub-commands}... Therefore in order for a Jew to be considered righteous, he is held to a higher standard. Jews are subject to more 'judgement' because we are liable to violate more commandments.

Regarding 'Gentile Brains' I have no real clue. The only thing I can think of is the expression 'Yiddishe Cup' which means Jewish Head/Brain/Mind... I supposed that the opposite of the 'Yiddishe Cup' would be the 'Goyisha Cup'...

http://www.torah.org/learning/edutainment/5769/pesach.html

Quote
(Insights for Passover)

THE 4 CUPS OF… MILK?

What does it mean for a person to possess a “Yiddishe Cup” (a “Jewish head” or “Jewish way of thinking” – which, by the way, does not necessarily imply that every Jew thinks this way or that Jews have a complete monopoly on thinking this way!)? The following story on the four Seder cups can fill us up with a truly liberating lesson on this always timely topic.
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You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Mishmaat

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Re: To British Sword -- Regarding Your Questions To Chaim
« Reply #3 on: February 20, 2011, 02:55:31 AM »
He sounds like a run of the mill Jew hater to me. Be wary of this person.

Offline muman613

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Re: To British Sword -- Regarding Your Questions To Chaim
« Reply #4 on: February 20, 2011, 03:23:16 AM »
Here is an excerpt from a site which discusses the laws of Kashrut:

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/jewfaq/kashrut.htm

The Fundamental Rules

Although the details of kashrut are extensive, the laws all derive from a few fairly simple, straightforward rules:

   1. Certain animals may not be eaten at all.  This restriction includes the flesh, organs, eggs, and milk of the forbidden animals.
   2. Of the animals that may be eaten, the birds and mammals must be slaughtered in accordance with Jewish law.
   3. All blood must be drained from the meat or broiled out of it before it is eaten.
   4. Certain parts of permitted animals may not be eaten.
   5. Meat (the flesh of birds and mammals) cannot be eaten with dairy.  Fish, eggs, fruits, vegetables, and grains can be eaten with either meat or dairy.
   6. Utensils that have come into contact with meat may not be used with dairy, and vice versa.  Utensils that have come into contact with non-kosher food may not be used with kosher food.  This applies only where the contact occurred while the food was hot.
   7. Grape products made by non-Jews may not be eaten or drunk.

The Details

Animals that may not be eaten

Of the "beasts of the earth" (which basically refers to land mammals with the exception of swarming rodents), you may eat any animal that has cloven hooves and chews its cud.  Leviticus 11,3; Deuternomy 14,6.  Any land mammal that does not have both of these qualities is forbidden.  The Torah specifies that the camel, the rock badger, the hare and the pig are not kosher because each lacks one of these two qualifications.  Sheep, cattle, goats, and deer are kosher.

Of the things that are in the waters, you may eat anything that has fins and scales.  Leviticus 11,9; Deuteronomy 14,9.  Thus, shellfish such as lobsters, oysters, shrimp, clams, and crabs are all forbidden.  Fish like tuna, carp, salmon, and herring are all permitted.

For birds, the criteria are less clear.  The Torah lists forbidden birds (Leviticus 11,13-19; Deuteronomy 14,11-18), but does not specify why these particular birds are forbidden.  All of the birds on the list are birds of prey or scavengers, thus the rabbis inferred that this was the basis for the distinction.  Other birds are permitted, such as chicken, geese, ducks, and turkeys.

Of the "winged swarming things" (winged insects), a few are specifically permitted (Leviticus 11,21).

Rodents, reptiles, amphibians, and insects (except as mentioned above) are all forbidden (Leviticus 11,29-30, 42-43).

Some authorities require a post-mortem examination of the lungs of cattle, to determine whether the lungs are free from adhesions.  If the lungs are free from such adhesions, the animal is deemed "glatt" (that is, "smooth").  In certain circumstances, an animal can be kosher without being glatt; however, the stringency of keeping "glatt kosher" has become increasingly common in recent years.

As mentioned above, any product derived from these forbidden animals, such as their milk, eggs, fat, or organs, also cannot be eaten.  Rennet, an enzyme used to harden cheese, is often obtained from non-kosher animals, thus kosher hard cheese can be difficult to find.
Kosher slaughtering

The mammals and birds that may be eaten must be slaughtered in accordance with Jewish law; "as I have commanded thee" (Deuteronomy 12,21) is according to the Oral Torah on kosher slaughter given to Moses at Sinai.  We may not eat animals that died of natural causes (Deuteronomy 14,21) or that were killed by other animals (Exodus 22,30).  In addition, the animal must have no disease or flaws in the organs at the time of slaughter.  These restrictions do not apply to fish, which may be merely "gathered" (Numbers 11,22).

Ritual slaughter is known as shechitah, and the person who performs the slaughter is called a shochet, both from the Hebrew root Shin-Chet-Tet, meaning to slaughter.  The method of slaughter is a quick, deep stroke across the throat with a perfectly sharp blade with no nicks or unevenness.  This method is painless, causes unconsciousness within seconds, and is widely recognized as the most humane method of slaughter possible.

Another advantage of shechitah is that ensures rapid, complete draining of the blood, which is also necessary to render the meat kosher.

The shochet is not simply a butcher; he must be a pious man, well-trained in Jewish law, particularly as it relates to kashrut.  In smaller, more remote communities, the rabbi and the shochet were often the same person.
Draining of Blood

The Torah prohibits consumption of blood.  Leviticus 7,26-27; Leviticus 17,10-14.  This is the only dietary law that has a reason specified in Torah:  we do not eat blood because the life of the animal is contained in the blood.  This applies only to the blood of birds and mammals, not to fish blood.  Thus, it is necessary to remove all blood from the flesh of kosher animals.

The first step in this process occurs at the time of slaughter.  As mentioned above, shechitah allows for rapid draining of most of the blood.

The remaining blood must be removed by salting, and then either broiling or emersing the salted meat in boiling water till it whitens.  Liver may only be koshered by the broiling method, because it has so much blood in it and such complex blood vessels.  This final process must be completed within 72 hours after slaughter, and before the meat is frozen or ground.  Most butchers and all frozen food vendors take care of the salting for you, but you should always check this when you are buying someplace you are unfamiliar with.

An egg that contains a blood spot may not be eaten.  This is not very common, but one finds them once in a while.  It is a good idea to break an egg into a container and check it before you put it into a heated pan, because if you put a blood-stained egg into a heated pan, the pan becomes non-kosher.
Forbidden Fats and Nerves

The sciatic nerve and its adjoining blood vessels may not be eaten.  The process of removing this nerve is time consuming and not very cost-effective, so most kosher slaughterers simply sell the hind quarters to non-kosher butchers.

A certain kind of fat, known as chelev, which surrounds the vital organs and the liver, may not be eaten.  Kosher butchers remove this.  Modern scientists have found biochemical differences between this type of fat and the permissible fat around the muscles and under the skin.
Separation of Meat and Dairy

On three separate occasions, the Torah tells us not to "boil a kid in its mother's milk" (Exodus 23,19; Exodus 34,26; Deuteronomy 14,21).  The Oral Torah explains that this passage prohibits eating meat and dairy together.  The rabbis extended this prohibition to include not eating milk and poultry together.  It is, however, permissible to eat fish and dairy together, and it is quite common.  It is also permissible to eat dairy and eggs together.  According to some views, it is not permissible to eat meat and fish together, but we are not certain of the reason for that restriction (it has been attributed to medical opinion in the Middle Ages, for example).

This separation includes not only the foods themselves, but the utensils, pots and pans with which they are cooked, the plates and flatware from which they are eaten, the dishwashers or dishpans in which they are cleaned, and the towels on which they are dried.  A kosher household will have at least two sets of pots, pans, and dishes:  one for meat and one for dairy.  See Utensils below for more details.

One must wait a significant amount of time between eating meat and dairy.  Opinions differ, and vary from one or two to six hours.  This is because fatty residues and meat particles tend to cling to the mouth.  From dairy to meat, however, one need only rinse one's mouth and eat a neutral solid like bread, unless the dairy product in question is also of a type that tends to stick in the mouth.

The Yiddish words fleishig (meat), milchig (dairy), and pareve (neutral) are commonly used to describe food or utensils that fall into one of those categories.

Note that even the smallest quantity of dairy (or meat) in something renders it entirely dairy (or meat) for purposes of kashrut.  For example, most margarines are dairy for kosher purposes, because they contain a small quantity of whey or other dairy products to give it a dairy-like taste.  Animal fat is considered meat for purposes of kashrut.  You should read the ingredients very carefully, even if the product is kosher-certified.
Utensils

Utensils (pots, pans, plates, flatware, etc., etc.) must also be kosher.  A utensil picks up the kosher "status" (meat, dairy, pareve, or treyf) of the food that is cooked in it or eaten off of it, and transmits that status back to the next food that is cooked in it or eaten off of it.  Thus, if you cook chicken soup in a saucepan, the pan becomes meat.  If you thereafter use the same saucepan to heat up some warm milk, the fleishig status of the pan is transmitted to the milk, and the milchig status of the milk is transmitted to the pan, making both the pan and the milk a forbidden mixture.

Kosher status can be transmitted from the food to the utensil or from the utensil to the food only in the presence of heat, thus if you are eating cold food in a non-kosher establishment, the condition of the plates is not an issue.  Likewise, you could use the same knife to slice cold cuts and cheese, as long as you clean it in between, but this is not really a recommended procedure, because it increases the likelihood of mistakes.

Stove tops and sinks routinely become non-kosher utensils, because they routinely come in contact with both meat and dairy in the presence of heat.  It is necessary, therefore, to use dishpans when cleaning dishes (do not soak them directly in the sink) and to use separate spoon rests and trivets when putting things down on the stove top.

Dishwashers are a kashrut problem.  If you are going to use a dishwasher in a kosher home, you either need to have separate dish racks or you need to run the dishwasher in between meat and dairy loads.

You should use separate towels and pot holders for meat and dairy.  Routine laundering koshers such items, so you can simply launder them between using them for meat and dairy.

Certain kinds of utensils can be "koshered" if you make a mistake and use it with both meat and dairy.  Consult a rabbi for guidance if this situation occurs.
Grape Products

The restrictions on grape products derive from the laws against using products of idolatry.  Wine was commonly used in the rituals of all ancient religions, and wine was routinely sanctified for pagan purposes while it was being processed.  For this reason, use of wines and other grape products made by non-Jews was prohibited.  (Whole grapes are not a problem, nor are whole grapes in fruit cocktail).

For the most part, this rule only affects wine and grape juice.  This becomes a concern with many fruit drinks or fruit-flavored drinks, which are often sweetened with grape juice.  You may also notice that it is virtually impossible to find kosher baking powder, because baking powder is made with cream of tartar, a by-product of wine making.
You shall make yourself the Festival of Sukkoth for seven days, when you gather in [the produce] from your threshing floor and your vat.And you shall rejoice in your Festival-you, and your son, and your daughter, and your manservant, and your maidservant, and the Levite, and the stranger, and the orphan, and the widow, who are within your cities
Duet 16:13-14

Offline Spiraling Leopard

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Re: To British Sword -- Regarding Your Questions To Chaim
« Reply #5 on: February 20, 2011, 06:30:12 AM »
British sword has been exposed in his introduction thread already. What's the big surprise here?

Offline Zelhar

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Re: To British Sword -- Regarding Your Questions To Chaim
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2011, 08:01:00 AM »
Has he been exposed or has he been honest ?

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Re: To British Sword -- Regarding Your Questions To Chaim
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2011, 09:02:59 AM »
Has he been exposed or has he been honest ?


This might just as well be some communist scum looking to 'proof' that JTF sides with nazi's.

How do you figure that?

They will always be looking to brand JTF as nazi's and racists. This person is definitely not a bnp staffmember, so what are his inquiries worth? Why ask JTF if there is a willingness to coöperate when you're not even an official bnp staffmember? That would be completely useless, unless...

This might just as well be some communist scum looking to 'proof' that JTF sides with nazi's.

Offline Spiraling Leopard

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Re: To British Sword -- Regarding Your Questions To Chaim
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2011, 09:44:21 AM »
Greetings Friends.

I hail from England. I discovered one of your enlightening and frightening videos on youtube.

I am a very proud briton and have been keeping tabs upon the british national party.

I was going to make a large spiel about how the BNP is not fascist this is an evil leftist smear. And is pro jewish pro-israel has jewish members etc, but I see reading through the intros someone has beaten me to it.

Let me know how I can help.
This sword will cut for you.


VS


Hail Chaim
First off a big congratulations on chumming up with the EDL. This is fantastic, England getting some real help from across the pond. It'll be like old times.
I hope I made a small contribution to that decision by mentioning the comical edict banning BNP members from talking to the EDL.

Yes, EDL are cool, I'll keep spying on them to make sure they stay that way.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: To British Sword -- Regarding Your Questions To Chaim
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2011, 11:20:58 AM »
initially he claimed to be a BNP supporter.  Then he claimed to be an EDL guy who hates BNP in his posts to chaim on ASK JTF.     Certainly he has some explaining to do (at the very least)

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Re: To British Sword -- Regarding Your Questions To Chaim
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2011, 11:30:53 AM »
initially he claimed to be a BNP supporter.  Then he claimed to be an EDL guy who hates BNP in his posts to chaim on ASK JTF.     Certainly he has some explaining to do (at the very least)

He changed his introduction post. He said he was a proud member of the bnp.

Offline Spiraling Leopard

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Re: To British Sword -- Regarding Your Questions To Chaim
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2011, 12:02:29 PM »
Here is his first post as it was, I quoted it somewhere before he changed it:


Quote
Greetings from Britain
« on: November 25, 2010, 02:01:38 PM »
   Reply with quoteQuote
Greetings Friends.

I hail from England. I discovered one of your enlightening and frightening videos on youtube.

I am a proud member of british national party.

I was going to make a large spiel about how the BNP is not fascist this is an evil leftist smear. And is pro jewish pro-israel has jewish members etc, but I see reading through the intros someone has beaten me to it.

Let me know how I can help.
This sword will cut for you.


The question is, do we want to allow someone here, who deliberately is trying to conceal the fact that he is a member of the bnp?
It serves no purpose and if you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem. Er... bye?

Offline christians4jews

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Re: To British Sword -- Regarding Your Questions To Chaim
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2011, 12:10:52 PM »
I agree with Robert here, if he is a BNP member, and "proud", then bye bye.

If however he can explain his current postion, perhaps he has a legitimate reason for his political postion then and now, so we should at least hear him out.


Offline Zelhar

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Re: To British Sword -- Regarding Your Questions To Chaim
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2011, 04:18:41 PM »
I think the policy is freedom of opinion so based on that BritishSword shouldn't be banned. I don't think he violated the forum rules.

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Re: To British Sword -- Regarding Your Questions To Chaim
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2011, 04:30:53 PM »
I think the policy is freedom of opinion so based on that BritishSword shouldn't be banned. I don't think he violated the forum rules.

When it is obvious someone has ulterior motives it is a different story.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: To British Sword -- Regarding Your Questions To Chaim
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2011, 05:11:55 PM »
I think the policy is freedom of opinion so based on that BritishSword shouldn't be banned. I don't think he violated the forum rules.

True but he should be honest about what his real opinions are and not try to deceive us or pretend he is something he's not.

Offline Zelhar

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Re: To British Sword -- Regarding Your Questions To Chaim
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2011, 06:12:57 PM »
Lets set up an inquisition then, let us inquisit him till all truth comes out.

Offline Lisa

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Re: To British Sword -- Regarding Your Questions To Chaim
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2011, 11:52:07 PM »
I'm listening to Chaim's response to British Sword right now.

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: To British Sword -- Regarding Your Questions To Chaim
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2011, 09:20:42 AM »
 :::D

Offline Dr. Dan

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Re: To British Sword -- Regarding Your Questions To Chaim
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2011, 10:34:16 AM »
I prefer the wait and see approach...And if it turns out he is a Jew hater then we can show in the exit. If he turns out not pulling off a Ben M, then all the better.
If someone says something bad about you, say something nice about them. That way, both of you would be lying.

In your heart you know WE are right and in your guts you know THEY are nuts!

"Science without religion is lame; Religion without science is blind."  - Albert Einstein

Offline Kahane-Was-Right BT

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Re: To British Sword -- Regarding Your Questions To Chaim
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2011, 04:39:34 PM »
Lets set up an inquisition then, let us inquisit him till all truth comes out.
:::D