Gay marriage

[The One and Only Mo]

I am beyond words, my friends. What I was always taught was wrong is actually not wrong, but encouraged?! I am so lost at the state of the world - - - since the intifada (I was old enough to realize how messed up THAT was) - - - that NOTHING surprises me anymore. I have no faith in the goyish world (not too sure if I ever had), and the same can be said of the Jewish world. I am SO freaking TIRED of being in the minority everywhere I go. It's RARE that I run into another Kahanist, My own best friend, who mostly shares my views, couldn't understand why I said I wouldn't send my kids to the Israeli Army. I told him what's the point in fighting when the people who run the army are just supporting the Arabs anyways, and the land will continue to be filled with Arabs? I told him my kids could join the army if I knew all the Arabs would be wiped out from Israel. He said I wasn't realistic, but then we both smiled at the notion of Arabs actually NOT living in Israel being unrealistic.

Either way, the world is messed up, and I feel like it's few hundred of us in JTF vs. the entire world, and we'll only win when Hashem wants....but that's for another post.

[Zelhar]

What is it that is so objectionable in gay marriage to allot of conservatives ?

[The One and Only Mo]

What is it that is so objectionable in gay marriage to allot of conservatives ?

?

[Zelhar]

?

The gay marriage thing isn't sanctioned by any respectable religious community. So basically the sort of marriage gays can have in NY now are as invalid as they have ever been from a spiritual and moral point of view.

[cjd]

The gay marriage thing isn't sanctioned by any respectable religious community. So basically the sort of marriage gays can have in NY now are as invalid as they have ever been from a spiritual and moral point of view.

People that seek something like that are not really interested in sanctions from any religious community anyway... Twenty years ago I would have said that even with legal status same sex couples would still be facing an up hill battle... Today the majority of young folks see it as a so called "lifestyle choice" and have little or no opinion when asked about the issue... It seems the horse is out of the barn with this and there is almost no point in slamming the doors shut now... I personally almost bust out laughing when I hear people refer to a same sex person as their married partner... The last 20 or so years have really been a downward spiral when it comes to social change... I feel bad for younger folks that are still bothered by change like this but it's far worse for people who are a bit older that grew up in a time where stuff like gay marriage was not even a remote possibility... All I can say is with all that's happening in society now this is at the lower end of pressing issues... Unless people wake up and deal with the monetary problems facing America get control of the global unrest issues like "gay marriage" won't mean much in the bigger picture of things.

[Shlomo]

What is it that is so objectionable in gay marriage to allot of conservatives ?

I am surprised you would ask such a simple and obvious question.

Marriage is a religious institution originating from the Torah that guaranteed rights and protection to the female in reproduction for her and and her children (it is much, much more difficult for a woman to work and provide for herself with an infant), provided a balanced upbringing of a child including both healthy masculine and feminine roles, guaranteed that the male and female would give exclusive mating rights to one another by contract, made sure that all parties were cared for using the combination of both gender strengths together (many liberals deny any difference between genders), and would result in procreation.

By hijacking this religious institution for the perversion of homosexuality (which can never produce offspring), none of the above benefits can be realized. Furthermore, the seriousness of purpose of marriage become trivialized. In other words, the importance of marriage is the family unit which cannot exist and has no purpose in gay marriage other than undermining the values from the Torah and sending a clear message to society that marriage means something completely different from which is was intended.

I would like to add that many homosexual perverts believe that being "gay" is something you are born with (even though over 90% of homosexuals have had intercourse with the opposite sex) and that it is handed down through evolution. Nothing can be "handed down" and no gene can be passed on since homosexual relationships cannot ever produce offspring. it is unnatural and has no benefit to society or humankind.

• One study reports 70% of homosexuals admitting to having sex only one time with over 50% of their partners (3).
• One study reports that the average homosexual has between 20 and 106 partners per year (6). The average heterosexual has 8 partners in a lifetime.
• Many homosexual sexual encounters occur while drunk, high on drugs, or in an orgy setting (7).
• Many homosexuals don't pay heed to warnings of their lifestyles: "Knowledge of health guidelines was quite high, but this knowledge had no relation to sexual behavior" (16).
• Homosexuals got homosexuality removed from the list of mental illnesses in the early 70s by storming the annual American Psychiatric Association (APA) conference on successive years. "Guerrilla theater tactics and more straight-forward shouting matches characterized their presence" (2). Since homosexuality has been removed from the APA list of mental illnesses, so has pedophilia (except when the adult feels "subjective distress") (27).
• Homosexuals account for 3-4% of all gonorrhea cases, 60% of all syphilis cases, and 17% of all hospital admissions (other than for STDs) in the United States (5). They make up only 1-2% of the population.
• Homosexuals live unhealthy lifestyles, and have historically accounted for the bulk of syphilis, gonorrhea, Hepatitis B, the "gay bowel syndrome" (which attacks the intestinal tract), tuberculosis and cytomegalovirus (27).
• 73% of psychiatrists say homosexuals are less happy than the average person, and of those psychiatrists, 70% say that the unhappiness is NOT due to social stigmatization (13).
• 25-33% of homosexuals and lesbians are alcoholics (11).
• Of homosexuals questioned in one study reports that 43% admit to 500 or more partners in a lifetime, 28% admit to 1000 or more in a lifetime, and of these people, 79% say that half of those partners are total strangers, and 70% of those sexual contacts are one night stands (or, as one homosexual admits in the film "The Castro", one minute stands) (3). Also, it is a favorite past-time of many homosexuals to go to "cruisy areas" and have anonymous sex.
• 78% of homosexuals are affected by STDs (20).
• Judge John Martaugh, chief magistrate of the New York City Criminal Court has said, "Homosexuals account for half the murders in large cities" (10).
• Captain William Riddle of the Los Angeles Police says, "30,000 sexually abused children in Los Angeles were victims of homosexuals" (10).
• 50% of suicides can be attributed to homosexuals (10).
• Dr. Daniel Capron, a practicing psychiatrist, says, "Homosexuality by definition is not healthy and wholesome. The homosexual person, at best, will be unhappier and more unfulfilled than the sexually normal person" (10). For other psychiatrists who believe that homosexuality is wrong, please see National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality.
• It takes approximately $300,000 to take care of each AIDS victim, so thanks to the promiscuous lifestyle of homosexuals, medical insurance rates have been skyrocketing for all of us(10).
• Homosexuals were responsible for spreading AIDS in the United States, and then raised up violent groups like Act Up and Ground Zero to complain about it. Even today, homosexuals account for well over 50% of the AIDS cases in the United States, which is quite a large number considering that they account for only 1-2% of the population.
• Homosexuals account for a disproportionate number of hepatitis cases: 70-80% in San Francisco, 29% in Denver, 66% in New York City, 56% in Toronto, 42% in Montreal, and 26% in Melbourne (8).
• 37% of homosexuals engage in sadomasochism, which accounts for many accidental deaths. In San Francisco, classes were held to teach homosexuals how to not kill their partners during sadomasochism (8).
• 41% of homosexuals say they have had sex with strangers in public restrooms, 60% say they have had sex with strangers in bathhouses, and 64% of these encounters have involved the use of illegal drugs (8).
• Depending on the city, 39-59% of homosexuals are infected with intestinal parasites like worms, flukes and amoebae, which is common in filthy third world countries (8).
• The median age of death of homosexuals is 42 (only 9% live past age 65). This drops to 39 if the cause of death is AIDS. The median age of death of a married heterosexual man is 75 (8).
• The median age of death of lesbians is 45 (only 24% live past age 65). The median age of death of a married heterosexual woman is 79 (8).
• Homosexuals are 100 times more likely to be murdered (usually by another homosexual) than the average person, 25 times more likely to commit suicide, and 19 times more likely to die in a traffic accident (8).
• 21% of lesbians die of murder, suicide or traffic accident, which is at a rate of 534 times higher than the number of white heterosexual females aged 25-44 who die of these things(8).
• 50% of the calls to a hotline to report "queer bashing" involved domestic violence (i.e., homosexuals beating up other homosexuals) (18).
• About 50% of the women on death row are lesbians (12). Homosexuals prey on children.
• 33% of homosexuals ADMIT to minor/adult sex (7).
• There is a notable homosexual group, consisting of thousands of members, known as the North American Man and Boy Love Association ( NAMBLA). This is a child molesting homosexual group whose cry is "SEX BEFORE 8 BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE." This group can be seen marching in most major homosexual parades across the United States.
• Homosexuals commit more than 33% of all reported child molestations in the United States, which, assuming homosexuals make up 2% of the population, means that 1 in 20 homosexuals is a child molestor, while 1 in 490 heterosexuals is a child molestor (19).
• 73% of all homosexuals have had sex with boys under 19 years of age (9).
• Many homosexuals admit that they are pedophiles: "The love between men and boys is at the foundation of homosexuality" (22).
• Because homosexuals can't reproduce naturally, they resort to recruiting children. Homosexuals can be heard chanting "TEN PERCENT IS NOT ENOUGH, RECRUIT, RECRUIT, RECRUIT" in their homosexual parades. A group called the "Lesbian Avengers" prides itself on trying to recruit young girls. They print "WE RECRUIT" on their literature. Some other homosexuals aren't as overt about this, but rather try to infiltrate society and get into positions where they will have access to the malleable minds of young children (e.g., the clergy, teachers, Boy Scout leaders, etc.) (8). See the DC Lesbian Avengers web page, and DC Lesbian Avengers Press Release, where they threaten to recruit little boys and girls. Also, see AFA Action Alert.
• Part of the homosexual agenda is to get the public to affirm their filthy lifestyle, as one homosexual admitted in the October 1987 homosexual rally on Washington: "We are no longer seeking just a right to privacy and a protection from wrong. We also have a right -- as heterosexual Americans already have -- to see government and society affirm our lives" (27).
• Part of the homosexual agenda is to turn people from the Bible: "The teaching that only male-female sexual activity within the bounds and constraints of marriage is the only acceptable form should be reason enough for any homosexual to denounce the Christian/Jewish religion" (1).
• Homosexuals knowingly lied (and still lie) about the 10% figure (i.e., homosexuals make up 10% of the population). As Tom Stoddard (formerly of the Lambda Legal Defense Fund) said, "We used that figure when most gay people were entirely hidden to try to create an impression of our numerousness" (17).
• Homosexuals aren't discriminated against in employment, so why should they be a protected class? The average yearly income of a homosexual is $55,430.00 (most of which is disposable because no children to take care of!). The average of the general population is $32,144.00. The average of blacks is $12,166.00. 49.0% of homosexuals hold professional/managerial positions. 15.9% of the general population hold such positions (24).
• Current research shows that the true percentage of homosexuals is in the 1-2% range. Consider how small this number is when compared to most of the numbers above.

The homosexual agenda includes desensitizing the public:

"The first order of business is desensitization of the American public concerning gays and gay rights...To desensitize the public is to help it view homosexuality with indifference instead of with keen emotion. Ideally, we would have straights register differences in sexual preferences the way they register different tastes for ice cream or sports games...At least in the beginning, we are seeking public desensitization and nothing more. We do not need and cannot expect a full 'appreciation' or 'understanding' of homosexuality from the average American. You can forget about trying to persuade the masses that homosexuality is a good thing. But if only you can get them to think that it is just another thing...then your battle for legal and social rights is virtually won" (25).

Of course, the above facts would be considered "hate speech" in this day and age because of this very reason.

References
* http://www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/a02rStatistcs.html
(1) Advocate, 1985.
(2) Bayer, R. Homosexuality and American Psychiatry.
(3) Bell, A. and Weinberg, M. Homosexualities: a Study of Diversity Among Men and Women. New York: Simon & Schuster, 1978.
(4) Cameron et. al. ISIS National Random Sexuality Survey. Nebraska Med. Journal, 1985, 70, pp. 292-299.
(5) "Changes in Sexual Behavior and Incidence of Gonorrhea." Lancet, April 25, 1987.
(6) Corey, L. and Holmes, K. "Sexual Transmission of Hepatitis A in Homosexual Men." New England J. Med., 1980, pp. 435-38.
(7) Family Research Institute, Lincoln, NE.
(8) Fields, Dr. E. "Is Homosexual Activity Normal?" Marietta, GA.
(9) Jay and Young. The Gay Report. Summit Books, 1979, p. 275.
(10) Kaifetz, J. "Homosexual Rights Are Concern for Some," Post-Tribune, 18 December 1992.
(11) Kus, R. "Alcoholics Anonymous and Gay America." Medical Journal of Homosexuality, 1987, 14(2), p. 254.
(12) Lesbian News, January 1994.
(13) Lief, H. Sexual Survey Number 4: Current Thinking on Homosexuality, Medical Aspects of Human Sexuality, 1977, pp. 110-11.
(14) Manlight, G. et. al. "Chronic Immune Stimulation By Sperm Alloantigens." J. American Med. Assn., 1984, 251(2), pp. 237-438.
(15) Morton-Hunt Study for Playboy
(16) MsKusick, L. et. al. "AIDS and Sexual Behavior Reported By Gay Men in San Francisco." Am. J. Pub. Health, 1985, 75, pp. 493-96.
(17) Newsweek, February 1993.
(18) Newsweek, 4 October 1993.
(19) Psychological Reports, 1986, 58, pp. 327-37.
(20) Rueda, E. The Homosexual Network. Old Greenwich, Conn., The Devin Adair Company, 1982, p. 53.
(21) San Francisco AIDS Foundation, "Can We Talk."
(22) San Francisco Sentinel, 27 March 1992.
(23) Science Magazine, 18 July 1993, p. 322.
(24) Statistical Abstract of the U.S., 1990.
(25) "The Overhauling of Straight America." Guide Magazine. November, 1987.
(26) United States Census Bureau
(27) United States Congressional Record, June 29, 1989.
(28) University of Chicago's Nation Research Corp.
(29) Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders Fourth Edition, American Psychiatric Association, 1994.

[muman613]

It is a sign of the sickness of this country...

Zelhar, read the Torah concerning the story of sodom & amora... There the 'laws' were upside down....

[Zelhar]

Guys what I mean is two man or two woman who live in a free society like the USA can pretty much form a contractual "marriage" anyway and you can call it whatever you like. So basically I see the whole argument against gay marriage as semantics. The most evil people in the gay community really do want to mock any tradition and any belief system that is not nihilistic and hedonistic. So they join progressive churches and reform temples and pretend that they are observing the faith, and that is IMO very objectionable. But why should I care if two guys or two girls register in city hall that they are "married" ?

[cjd]

I would like to add that many homosexual perverts believe that being "gay" is something you are born with (even though over 90% of homosexuals have had intercourse with the opposite sex) and that it is handed down through evolution. Nothing can be "handed down" and no gene can be passed on since homosexual relationships cannot ever produce offspring. it is unnatural and has no benefit to society or humankind.

Sadly many male homosexuals do indeed produce offspring since many swing on both sides of the gate  . Worse still are the female homosexuals who go to the sperm bank and look in the big book of donors and pick out prospective offspring from G-d knows who... Children conceived like this have a rough time on Thanksgiving day when they see daddy used to baste the turkey  ... Society has gone to hell in a hand basket... Worse than ignoring crazy stuff like this is trying to figure it all out... As I said in an earlier post the horse left the barn on this issue some time ago.

[nessuno]

Sadly many male homosexuals do indeed produce offspring since many swing on both sides of the gate  . Worse still are the female homosexuals who go to the sperm bank and look in the big book of donors and pick out prospective offspring from G-d knows who... Children conceived like this have a rough time on Thanksgiving day when they see daddy used to baste the turkey  ... Society has gone to hell in a hand basket... Worse than ignoring crazy stuff like this is trying to figure it all out... As I said in an earlier post the horse left the barn on this issue some time ago.

  That's it for the turkey baster...out it goes.  I will never be able to look at that utensil the same way again.  Gee. Thanks.     Any suggestions on how baste a turkey now?

[cjd]

  That's it for the turkey baster...out it goes.  I will never be able to look at that utensil the same way again.  Gee. Thanks.     Any suggestions on how baste a turkey now?

Yes, My grandmother had a solution for this... Get an white dish cloth and put it over the turkey's breast and then use a big spoon to dampen the cloth...

[Mizrahi 4 LIFE]

what's up with America? Gay marriage and banning circumcisions. whats next?

[muman613]

what's up with America? Gay marriage and banning circumcisions. whats next?

Shabbat & Kashrut are next. They will force people to violate Sabbath and make it difficult to find Kosher meat by legislation against Schechita.

[Rubystars]

Shabbat & Kashrut are next. They will force people to violate Sabbath and make it difficult to find Kosher meat by legislation against Schechita.

I don't think Jews are facing much direct persecution in the USA. I can see some localities perhaps banning kosher slaughter (predominately very liberal atheistic areas like maybe California), but not in most of the USA for a long time anyway. A lot of Christians and Muslims also eat kosher meat. Christians do it because it's considered cleaner/healthier and/or more in line with the Bible, and Muslims do it because it's considered to be an acceptable substitute for halal.

Mostly the target of liberals are what they call the "Christian right". Some of the things they do against Christians affects devout Jews as a side-effect though. The ban on circumscision was mostly going to affect Christians, although it obviously affects Jews and Muslims as a side-effect. It's not absolutely required in Christianity to do that like it is in Judaism but many people believe that it's a good thing as this is what was done to Jesus. Some Christians even feel that it's required as part of their faith.

Jews make up such a tiny portion of the country I don't think that they are the main target of much of any of this legislation. As far as Shabbat goes I don't see anybody of any faith wanting to give up their weekends and most companies do allow for religious protections. I even read a post from a pagan in a chat room that said she gets every full moon off of work due to her religious needs. If someone who basically follows witchcraft can get that kind of special treatment then surely someone with an established, much more respectable religion can arrange to have Shabbat off.

[Zelhar]

Ruby I think Friday is a full working day in America so Jewish people have tough time observing the Shabbat. The Jewish day begins at the evening (sun set), so Shabat enters on Friday sun set, which in the winter especially on northern parts of the world can happen at mid day.

[Debbie Shafer]

What is it that is so objectionable in gay marriage to allot of conservatives ?

We take God's words and commands seriously.  Leviticus 18:22 says Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman, that is detestable.   Do not defile yourselves in any of these ways, because this is how the nations that I am going to drive out before you became defiled.  Even the land was defiled; so I punished it for its sin, and the land vomited out its inhabitants...But you must keep my decrees and my laws.  The native born and the aliens living among you must not do any of these detestable things, for all these things were done by the people who lived in the land before you, and the land became defiled.  And if you defile the land, it will vomit you out as it vomited out the nations that were before you.   

God destroyed Sodom because of Fornication and Homosexuality,  Jude 1:7 says Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example.  Jude 1:7 clearly implies homosexuality.  Going after strange flesh means going after flesh that is not ours to claim.    Sodomy is an abomination to God!

In Genesis 19: 12-17  The angels of the Lord came to warn Lot that the cities would be destroyed because of sin.  The  men of Sodom ask if thy can have sex with the angels, or may we know them...No wonder the cities of the plain were incinerated!

[Rubystars]

Ruby I think Friday is a full working day in America so Jewish people have tough time observing the Shabbat. The Jewish day begins at the evening (sun set), so Shabat enters on Friday sun set, which in the winter especially on northern parts of the world can happen at mid day.

In many workplaces there are morning shifts and evening shifts so on Friday it's not that hard to get a morning shift that would get you out of there. Like if you came in at 8am and worked until 5pm most of the time during the spring and summer that would be more than enough time to get home. Here the sun sets around 8pm in the middle of the summer. In the winter it can be earlier but employers are good about working around religious needs because they don't want to get sued.